1992 Johnson V4 115 hp

Author Message   Chris L New member Username: chriscrafter Post Number: 1 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 12:07 pm:    Hi there, I just purchased a boat with a Johnson 115 V4 1992. Unbenownst to me, the VRO oil pump was not working and the warning system was disabled/removed/missing, and I ran the motor on straight gas. The motor ran for about 20 minutes, but then stopped suddenly. After cooling down it would restart. Took the boat to a local shop, and they made the diagnosis of a seized motor, and said the motor is not worth the expense/effort of rebuilding. The shop pulled off the heads and the exhaust cover and one can clearly see scoring on one of the pistons, but the other three appear intact Although one can only see the part of the piston that is exposed at the intake and exhaust ports, so there may be other damage hidden. Can anyone advise what is the best way to proceed with this engine. Is it junk, or worth fixing? I am not a mechanic, but have tinkered with engines in the past. Am thinking that I might want to try to rebuild the engine myself. My other thought is just to reinstall the heads and exhaust cover and just run the engine on proper 50:1 mix. Is this worth a try, or is this foolish? Thanks in advance for any and all opinions.   ikia Visitor Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 12:21 pm:    It is too late the damage is done.You need to find a good local mechanic that can do this work.Hopefully all it needs is 4 new pistons and I know this job is done for anywhere from $2000.00 to $3000.00 it depends on local rates .Where are you.   Chris L New member Username: chriscrafter Post Number: 2 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 12:29 pm:    I am located in Vancouver, BC Canada.   Michael J Cormier Member Username: mjcormier Post Number: 10 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 12:37 pm:    In my opinion, depending on the deepth of scoring, you might get away with honing the cylinders and install new rings,however ikia is more rite than wrong,a pro would be able to tell you better after looking at the situation first hand. It is just a suggestion and maybe you can do it youself. For service manual on that engine I can not post or sell but I bought it an i am legally allowed to lend or show it to you.let me know i'am here to help. Send me a private e mail. Michael   Chris L New member Username: chriscrafter Post Number: 3 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 12:48 pm:    Thanks for the advice. I have a subscription to the Seloc online manual. Is that any good, or should I get the manufacturer manual if I am doing a rebuild? Thanks again Chris   ikia Visitor Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 12:58 pm:    Having done many of these jobs ( bored out 6 - 90 hp blocks myself ) and looking at the condition of that piston ( the hot exhaust side )I can assure you that it can not be honed.You need a new piston and an O/S piston is the same price as a standard. ONTARIO is too far away too help.   Michael J Cormier Member Username: mjcormier Post Number: 11 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 01:02 pm:    Can not answer that question,do not know answer,but I think, not quite certain, but i think you should mention who you are sending this message to,I am new to this site myself and not 100% sure of all guide lines. Again you can send PM Michael   Chris L Member Username: chriscrafter Post Number: 4 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 05:30 pm:    Hi again, I have spoken with a few 'boaty' friends, and one guy from a marina (admittedly not a mechanic), and a few of them have advised me that I should just put it back together and run it on gas with a high ratio of oil (say 25:1). The marina guy said he has seen motors that were seized 'tight as a drum', and they just soaked them with WD-40 and fogging oil, freed them up enough to turn over, and they ran. I figure, what have I got to lose? Anyone else out there in outboard motorland have any similar experience to share? Thanks Chris   ikia Visitor Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 06:21 pm:    Absolute nonsense, The motor is repairable now and you could have scrap later this summer.Properly repaired now and it will run like new for 10 years plus.   Michael J Cormier Member Username: mjcormier Post Number: 20 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 06:26 pm:    I think you are on the rite track you will no dout get 2 good season's out of it. I hope that you made a typeo when you stated you going to run 25 to 1 oil mix,50 to 1 is where you need to be, of that iam dead certain. Good luck and have a Great Summer on the water. PS. Good things come to those who BAIT!! Michael   Chris L Member Username: chriscrafter Post Number: 5 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 07:17 pm:    The debate rages on, but the votes are tied. Anyone else care to cast their vote?   Morten Ringvold Senior Member Username: haffiman37 Post Number: 2676 Registered: 04-2006 Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 10:16 pm:    With the look of that piston, I think no proper advice and cost estimate for repair may be given until tore down completely. You may be facing cracked sleeves as well as damaged bearings and crank. Pull it apart, get an estimate first.   jwbmarine Senior Member Username: jwbmarine Post Number: 1393 Registered: 11-2005 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 08:24 am:    I agree w/morten and ikia------ keep running,and u r just doing more damage...that is a good rebuild candidate!...talk to a boat mechanic,that takes the time to answer your questions,and is really interested in your prob,and is qualified,to rebuild your eng,..and get an est from him.   Graham Lamb Senior Member Username: galamb Post Number: 3064 Registered: 05-2007 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 08:31 am:    My 2 cents - to bore the cylinders 50 bucks a pop, new pistons/rings/bearings and possibly rods from a half decent shop another 400-500, throw in 100 bucks for gaskets and assorted odds/ends plus 35 bucks for a good manual and maybe 700 bucks later you have a rebuilt engine (doing most of the work yourself). Otherwise you can run it with extra oil and chuck 3-5k for another used one of dubious origin in a month when it spits a rod out the side of the case (hopefully avoiding any boat passengers on the way out)....   Michael J Cormier Member Username: mjcormier Post Number: 22 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 08:37 am:    what about the legal responsibility of the seller ,is it to late?   jwbmarine Senior Member Username: jwbmarine Post Number: 1394 Registered: 11-2005 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 08:40 am:    did u get it professionally checked out,prior to purchase?......that would have been YOUR,responsibility.   Graham Lamb Senior Member Username: galamb Post Number: 3067 Registered: 05-2007 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 10:57 am:    I totally agree - you bought a used motor. Maybe if you bought it from a dealer that offered even a 30 day warranty you might have some grounds - but if it was a private sale, that's usually as is, where is and you do your homework...   Chris L Member Username: chriscrafter Post Number: 6 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 10:59 am:    Thanks, everyone for the fantastic input. Yes I did have it checked by a mechanic before purchase, but unfortunately he missed the broken VRO issue. The seller was a third party that had seized the boat from the owner who had defaulted on a loan, so the third party did not know the history of the motor. I think the blame falls on the mechanic who checked it out for me, and partly on me for not properly assessing the credentials of said mechanic. Thanks again everyone for the input. Much appreciated. Chris   Chris L Member Username: chriscrafter Post Number: 7 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 12:34 pm:    Hey Graham, Is that for real what you said about spitting out a rod through the case? Could it really happen, or are you just exaggerating? Thanks Chris   jwbmarine Senior Member Username: jwbmarine Post Number: 1397 Registered: 11-2005 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 12:38 pm:    normally,..the basics are checked out during a pre-purchase insp...spark,comp,gen condition of eng,water in LU..cond of fuel del sys,..cond of cables,steering sys etc. to evaluate a VRO's functioning ability,is a more drawn out procedure,and not done during this time.ALot of prob's are blamed on a vro ,when actually,it may have been clogged carbs,no oil in tank,no warning signals(no maint on oil sys)..VRO systems are rarely maintained right.   jwbmarine Senior Member Username: jwbmarine Post Number: 1398 Registered: 11-2005 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 12:40 pm:    can,and does happen....not very often tho.   Chris L Member Username: chriscrafter Post Number: 8 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 01:49 pm:    It was definitely the VRO in this case according to the second mechanic (the one I took it to after the initial seizure). My understanding from the seloc manual is that one would hook the oil pump intake to a clear plastic tube fill the tube with oil, and run the engine on mix. Admittedly, not the simplest test to setup, but would have been well worth it in this case. In hindsight, there were other clues that the initial mechanic missed and things that made me wonder about his competence with this type of motor. One clue was that the fuel tank was filled with mixed fuel when the boat was purchased. Another clue: When I pointed out to him the oil tank, he initially thought it was a second battery. When he realized that it was in fact an oil tank, he advised that I would be able to run on straight gas.   ikia Visitor Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 07:19 pm:    The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotton.Get this thing rebuilt.   Chris L Member Username: chriscrafter Post Number: 9 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 11:58 pm:    What manual would you guys recommend? What are the trickiest parts of a rebuild? The seloc manual says that getting the rod caps on is a bit of an art form and when done improperly will trash your crankshaft. As a newbie, where else am I likely to encounter the most difficulty or most likely to screw things up? What tools would you recommend I have to do the job? Thanks again for all the advice.   ikia Visitor Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 05:07 am:    It takes patience and a pencil to line up the rod caps, post when you get ready to do this.Sure these motors will blow a rod out the case, happens on a regular basis.   Morten Ringvold Senior Member Username: haffiman37 Post Number: 2689 Registered: 04-2006 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 05:45 am:    I got the feeling a rebuilt power head might be the cheapest and easiest in Your case. Seems to come ready with warranty from Crowley Marine at about 2K.   Michael J Cormier Member Username: mjcormier Post Number: 23 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 07:17 am:    Chris I have the OME manual both the repair and parts break down for your engine and would be happy to send you any and all the info you require should you decide to take this job on. We are just a call away. Michael   Chris L Member Username: chriscrafter Post Number: 10 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 10:49 am:    Yes, I noticed the motors from Crowley, but being in Canada, not sure I want to deal with cross-border issues. I have a mechanic that I found on craigs list who gave me a ballpark estimate of $2400. I asked him for credentials, employment history and references though and he has not gotten back to me, so we will see. I also phoned the Johnson/Evinrude factory autorized service centre here Lordship Marine and got a ballpark estimate of $4000. Their hrly rate is $95 which accounts for most of the cost. Due to this, I am very tempted to either do the work myself or else scrap the whole thing and go out and purchase a new motor. Michael, thanks for the offer but I will probably just pick one up off ebay. would this one work? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEBTOX:IT&item=461 3903902&_trksid=p3984.cTODAY.m238.lVI Thanks Chris   Victor Rundquist Visitor Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 04:51 pm:    Just another comment... if you are going to rebuild this engine then leave the VRO disabled!! I have been runnind a 225 with the VRO disabled for over 5 years now and never had to worry about it. Sure I have to pour a gallon of oil into my tank every time I fill up (I have a 55 gallon tank) but it is well worth it knowing that my engine is properly lubricated. On the manual question: I have the Seloc Online subscription and I like it. I just rebuilt my lower unit with that manual. Good luck!   Chris L Member Username: chriscrafter Post Number: 12 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 04:56 pm:    Good advice, thanks Victor.   Graham Lamb Senior Member Username: galamb Post Number: 3074 Registered: 05-2007 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 07:48 pm:    Chris, Morten's suggestion is sound. If you are looking for a Canadian place, check out www.canada-marine.com - they specialize in OMC powerheads and can sell you one completely redone for less than 2K. Also have everything for the "do-it-yourselfer" should you need anything. Having said all that, if you do choose to do it yourself, I'm positive that with a little patience you could do the rebuild yourself (save boring the new holes) for less than 1000 bucks...   Chris L Member Username: chriscrafter Post Number: 13 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 08:17 pm:    Fantastic, Thanks Graham. I'll give that a look.   Chris L Member Username: chriscrafter Post Number: 14 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 11:30 pm:    Wow, that is a first. Something cheaper in Canada than in the States. I think you have found the right solution to my problem Graham. Thanks Chris   Chris L Member Username: chriscrafter Post Number: 15 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Friday, May 16, 2008 - 07:38 pm:    Hi again, I just managed after much wrestling to remove the powerhead from this unit unfortunately, 2 of the bolts were badly corroded and seized in place. When I pull the engine, it did not some off straight due the the amoutn of force used to pull it and the seized bolts, and I ended up breaking a chunk of the block off where the exhaust outlet is. Can this be welded back together, or is this a write off? Thanks in advance Chris   Chris L Member Username: chriscrafter Post Number: 16 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Friday, May 16, 2008 - 08:40 pm:    Here's a zoom out view of the bottom of the powerhead with the damaged part in the lower right of the photo.   Michael J Cormier Member Username: mjcormier Post Number: 47 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2008 - 06:37 am:    Yes,And should not be very costly, $30.00 max   Chris L Member Username: chriscrafter Post Number: 17 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 03:29 pm:    Thanks Michael, What kind of shop would be best able to do this?   thomas chirich New member Username: weasel Post Number: 3 Registered: 04-2008 Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 08:21 pm:    Read the whole thread, had the same issue with a 90hp. After looking at the pictures I would say that your piston scoring is from a bigger prblem with the connecting rod and bearing wich is allowing the piston to move side to side thus creating the scoring. The last picture of the damage, should tell you to take your time and not miss any more bolts. Of course if you get a rebuild that damage will be on the core.(might be slight charge when you turn it in)   Chris L Member Username: chriscrafter Post Number: 18 R