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water circulation problem on aq130/270

welshswampy

Regular Contributor
hi again all, i am having trouble keeping water circulating around engine, sometimes i cannot get any water to pump unless engine is revved highly(over 4000 rpm) and other times it will pump water as soon as it fires up, i have 2 water pumps both with new impelers and both will suck water out of a bucket next to engine on deck but not always up through leg when in a drum full of water, i have taken off elbow that bolts on to leg connected to "z" hose and refitted with new gasket and sealant, have run water back through leg to look for any signs of leakage, all seems fine, can i do anything else to rectify problem, can i fit an inline pump before water pump? any help much appreciated
 
The water neck that you removed can corrode around the inside of the fitting under the hose connection area. You may not see the corrosion unless you remove the hose and the fitting. It's condidered a wear item and should be periodically replaced.

Something I did was pressurize the outdrive from the muffs and look for leaks. You will need to plug the weep hole and hold the muffs tight. It's a rather wet job and having someone to help is a good idea. There is an oring between the lower and intermediate housings that can also fail. You'll just need to check every joint in the system but the water neck is the most common bad actor.
 
More often than not, the water neck fitting is the culprit. Usually from corrosion just as Joe says.
Any loss of suction here (or anywhere for that matter), and no amount of sea water pump action will over-come the breach.
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This part should be considered a "wear item", and should be replaced at a routine interval.

NOTE: The gasket is a special "beaded" gasket. Do NOT substitute for any other type or home made gasket.
The "bead" must face down, and form a good seal to the pivot tube.
No sealant should be required. Grease the beaded side!

Also, Check for excessive slop/play at the suspension fork/pivot tube bushing.
If the bushing is bad, some amount of wobble can affect the bead seal, in which case, a new beaded gasket will seal for a short time ONLY.

Pressure may not always reveal a suction leak..... but it may be worth a try.
To more effectively locate a suction leak, we need to apply actual suction, and then hunt for it. Shaving cream will disappear at the leak.

Personally..... I've had to actually test for, and/or locate, a suction leak in one of these only once or twice. I've been doing the Volvo Pentas for 20 years or so, and have come to know the suspect areas, then inspect and replace what I've come to know as the suspect parts.
Those and certain hoses and hose clamps.
Bingo.... the leak is gone.
That is why I first off mentioned the water neck fitting.

NOTE: there is one more potential suction breach area at the lower unit.
This would be the lower pivot tube O-ring. This rather FAT O-rings fits into a bore in the lower drive unit.
It is compressed against the radius portion of the pivot tube, in order to make this lower seal.

If your AQ 130 is using the short piece of copper suction tubing (from transom shield water tube hose---- to engine sea water pump), it may have a drain plug in it. Check this as well. Copper can corrode.

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Chances are if everything looks good and is sealed properly it just may be time to replace the pump housing. It may just be cavitation in the pump.
Chris, I'd normally and fully agree with that..... except that so often on these, it is exactly what we've covered.
These are pretty bullet proof little pumps.
Plus, if I read post 1 correctly, he tried two different pumps.

Never say never, however! :)
 
hi, thanks for all your replies, both pumps that i have tried have signs of ware on inside of cover plate, do you think that these pumps are just tired through age? also if i cover up water inlet and weep hole on leg can i flush water back through leg to check the pivot tube for leaks without doing any damage? both of these pumps pull water from a bucket on the deck next to engine easily, do you think that this is helped by syphonic action as outlet is lower than inlet, as apposed to the opposite when hose is connected to leg? as a last resort is there an inline pump that i can fit between leg and current water pump? thanks again for your time and patience
 
forgot to mention that i can easily suck water up through the leg manually using my mouth(and getting a lung full of sweet tasting stagnant water in the process!)
 
If the front cover of the pump has semi deep groves worn in it it will cause cavitation. Take the cover off and try sanding them smooth with a palm sander. I run into these types of problems with the Newer Merc engine mounted water pumps.
 
............. both pumps that i have tried have signs of ware on inside of cover plate, do you think that these pumps are just tired through age?
also if i cover up water inlet and weep hole on leg can i flush water back through leg to check the pivot tube for leaks without doing any damage? both of these pumps pull water from a bucket on the deck next to engine easily, do you think that this is helped by syphonic action as outlet is lower than inlet, as apposed to the opposite when hose is connected to leg? as a last resort is there an inline pump that i can fit between leg and current water pump?

Wear at the cover plate can be corrected to some degree (dressing it by machining, etc.), but this often indicates that the same or similar degree of wear has occured at the oposite "thrust surface" of the pump body. There is no correct "fix" for this, other than replacing the entire pump. All surfaces must be near pristine. The impeller must also be in near pristine condition.

How is the cover gasket?

Have you checked the pump body impeller "cam"?

If the cam is worn in a way that breaches impeller blade "wiping" and/or "compression" action, it will not create enough suction to pull sea water in.
(this image does not actually show a separate "cam"..... the next image does!)
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op_3.gif




Flushing water back through the drive will create a pressure scenario. Pressure is not a good means of simulating or locating a "suction" leak..... these are two entirely different principles. If you want to locate a suction leak, then use suction, and a foam that will disappear at the leak. Some use shaving cream.

As per your "last resort" suggestion: No need to re-invent the wheel on this one. Replace the suspect components with "like" OEM components. These systems work very well when they are in correct working order. No need to substitute or circumvent what the OEM has done. Trust me on this one!

Suspect areas:
Water Neck fitting as per suggested earlier.
Lower pivot tube O-ring seal.
All sucessive hoses and hose clamps.
Copper suction tube from transom shield water tube/hose to engine pump (if so equipped).
Rubber seals directly at pump connection (very important that these be NEW).
Pump Impeller thrust surfaces (cover and deepest surface within the pump bore)
Impeller itself..... (must be correct for the pump body, and in near pristine condition)


The sea water cooling system is the "heart" of the system that keeps engine operating temperatures within a safe range. All too often we look for short cuts, or anything that is a "quick fix", rather than a more difficult and more time consuming correct fix.
Most anything, and most any cost in doing so, will be paled by comparison to that of an engine replacement..... should you allow it to severely over-heat.

As for replacing the water neck fitting, I can't emphasize enough as to the importance of this!

I find it to be much easier to remove the transmission for water neck fitting access. Not all that difficult to do, and the access is greatly improved. This gives us oportunity to check several other items as well.
Transmission removal requires four new O-rings (drain plug, dip stick, oil drain-back tube, large bearing)
Heat the suspension fork in the area of the two water neck fitting fasteners prior to removing them! Keep the words "corrosion" and "snapped fastener" in mind.

Do these checks and items, and I'll bet your issue will be resolved.
 
Have you tried replacing the impeller with corresponding Jabsco 10 blade impeller?
If pump is getting slightly 'worn', it often makes quite a difference.
VP 'original: 875808 -replaced by 3593659
jabsco: 18673-0001
 
didnt get chance to try aything over weekend as engine still not back in after replacment of crankshaft oil seal and new sump gasket, will do this week and then try your sugestions, hopefully i will find some suction leaks tha are easily repairable, however, both waterpumps that i have are worn on the cover plate, i have polished one plate back flat and will try it later in the week, if i cant find any leaks and neither pump works satisfactorily, then i will get a new pump, but i will also try a different impeller as has been suggested, thanks again
 
................. hopefully i will find some suction leaks that are easily repairable ......
............... All too often we look for short cuts, or anything that is a "quick fix", rather than a more difficult and more time consuming correct fix.
I don't want to beat you up over this.... it's not my place to do.... and I'd much rather be helpful here, than derogatory. I too like it when the fix is easy! However, you may not find anything that is easily repairable.... or that is an easy cure! I think that the minute that we set our sights on the EASY fix's ONLY...... is the same minute that we may loose focus on the more difficult, and/or more plausible points of failure.


I've found that the best tried and proven method for many of us, has always been the P of E..... "process of elimination". One item..... and one item ONLY at a time......, until we have gone right down our list of our suspect potentials. If followed correctly, systematically and methodically, the P of E will NEVER let us down.

In my previous post, I left you some bullet point suggestions, including the pump body impeller "cam".
Any findings in/at these areas?

.
 
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yes i did check the shaft of one of the pumps and on closer inspection it looks to have been groung/filed down and therfore isnt tight in the impeller
 
forgot to mention that im not expecting an "easy fix" but it would be a pleasant change from the norm, but either way the problem will be resolved
 
have ground down water pump cover plate until smooth and run engine quite a few times over weekend and everything seems to be fine, water starts pumping pretty much at turn of key, so hopefully problem is solved, thanks to all for your of help and advice, will be back in water next weekend to do a spot of fishing and will let you know how it goes.Thanks again
 
Forgot to mention, i will get another shaft machined up to replace original worn/damaged one, so hopefully there wont be as much wear
 
Have you tried replacing the impeller with corresponding Jabsco 10 blade impeller?
If pump is getting slightly 'worn', it often makes quite a difference.
VP 'original: 875808 -replaced by 3593659
jabsco: 18673-0001

So, I decided to buy one of these Jabsco 10 blade impellers for my AQ130C water pump. Looks fine except a couple things...the threaded cross piece is not screwed into the impeller and the darn holes in both sides of the rubber portion of the impeller where you screw the cross piece into are way too small. So, I guess I will have to bore them out. Also, the shape of the gasket they give you does not look like the ones that I have gotten before but perhaps the screw holes and the inner shape of the gasket will line up OK with my pump. Won't know 'til I go to install it.
 
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I'm glad that you have this resolved for now.
But as noted, if/when these covers begin to show signs of wear and grooves, very likely the deep portion (the other thrust surface) of the pump body, is also showing signs of wear.

Since the sea water pump is so dang critical to our engine's cooling needs, this is one area that we don't want to skate by cheaply on.
The cost of a new pump (and a few other sea water path components) will be paled by comparison to that of an engine over-haul due to over-heating.

I know..... that sounds like Mother Hen talking.... but please take heed! :D

What's that saying???? Oh yeah........ "An once of prevention is worth a pound of cure!" :cool:

.
 
I understand what your saying, Rick
I also have a spare pump in good condition and i keep a close eye on things(temp, oil pressure ETC) when on the water
Thanks again for all the info and advice

I have just bought a Trophy with a 5.7 omc/cobra, so no doubt i will be in touch with you all again
 
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