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STBD engine - 1998 Carver 405 with Crusader 454/350hp XLI blowing whte smoke

J

jimmyd

New member
I purchased a 1998 Carver 405 with 454/350hp Crusaders inAugust 2012. During initial sea trialSTBD engine was smoking heavily (think old locomotive steam engine). Surveyor had his mechanic look at engine andfound spark plug, second cylinder, portbank, was running @ 125 degrees while other plug readings were 165degrees. He replaced the plug and wiringharness for all plugs. Second sea trialshowed problem corrected and I bought the boat.

Back home andafter 15hrs of mainly bubbling (1500 to 1800rpm) I was checking the engines and noted that the
coolant reservoirfor the STBD engine was empty. Irefilled, to the full line, and put another 5 hours on her. I
checked againprior to the 1.5 hr. trip to marina for haul out/winterization. Coolantlevel was 1.5 inches below
the fillline. On the way to haul out I put theboat on step, 3400rpm, after approx. 2 minutes I noticed heavy
smoke coming fromthe STBD exhaust. I throttled back to1800rpm for the 45 minutes balance of the trip, no
smoke.

Both engines,after reaching their operating temperature of 170 degrees at the helm gauges,never get cooler or
hotter throughthe rpm range regardless of how long the cruise period might be or at what rpmthey are running.
At operatingtemperature elbows are both warm to the hand, not hot,. STBD engine manifolds and elbows were
replaced in2009. Engine runs great and oil is clear; I mean clear. It is so clear that it is hard to see on dip stick.
Yes, it is thereand at the full mark! Engines are closedcooled with 380hrs on them

That’s it fornow. I’m thinking head gasket or headitself. Prefer neither and am hoping forsuggestions or ideas.

Thanks much,
jimmyd
 
was that engine blowing white smoke during the initial sea trial? I would reread the surveyor/mechanics report as I've never heard of anybody reading spark plugs with an IR gun...and I've be skeptical that most of us could point any non-contact instrument reliably enough to detect a 40 deg temp difference in that region of an operating engine.

White smoke and loss of coolant indicate the coolant is being burnt and sent out the exhaust. its source could be varied but the combustion chamber is the inital destination and you have the most likely scenario...

As guess you have figured out that changing spark plugs or high tension leads offers no fix for this issue... It is likely that the heads will need to be removed - that said, I'd get a pressure test and a leakdown test done before tearing anything apart.
 
Appreciate the input. Yes, smoking on first sea trial. When I challenged the IR gun surveyor told me it was all the Indy cars have switched to because of accuracy! I was thinking I'd need to down a few rums before my hand would steady up enough to get an accurate reading. Checked the survey and theit reads: STBD engine #2 cylinder reading 134 degrees, all other 165.

White smoke - water, blue smoke - oil and black smoke - gas, kept going through my head after I notice the coolant variation. After the first sea trial I ordered a pressure test of both engines however. Since I had to get back to Canada, the broker & surveyor were gong to meet the mechanic and get this done. That's when I was told it was a bad plug and wires. The surveyor sent me pictures of the second sea trial with the boat on step and there was only trace steam showing at STBD exhaust. Sea trial was on the Severn River (Chesapeake Bay) with water temp at 84%.

Looks like pressure & leak down tests will be in order next spring. Thanks again for your input. Bad news loves company :)
 
no problem and welcome to ME.com.

I guess they never did the pressure tests? was the surveyor a SAMS member?
 
Thanks much. Notests were completed. Surveyor claimed spark plug and wires corrected problem,provide picture evidence. That said, his report suggests a complete mechanicalinspection of all engines be certifide marine mechanic. No doubt standardwording in his report. The surveyor listed in his report his affiliation asfollows:

Association of Accredited Marine Surveyors member since May 2001
National Fire Prevention Association member since 2001,
American Boat and Yacht Council member since 2003

Here is what he wrote in his email after the second sea trial (after plug andwires):

Sea trailed vessel with ______ and _______(broker & mechanic)this afternoon. Ran vessel up to 4400 rpm's. Normal smoke from both exhaust. Exhaustmanifold temp.109-113 very good, no restriction of water. #2 cylinder starbengine 225- normal. It is my opinion that the engines are working properly.

 DSCN1695 (640x479).jpgDSCN1696 (640x479).jpg Here are the exhaust pictures surveyor sent to me from the second, post spark plug and wires, sea trial that generated his comments above.

Appreciate your input and help.

Thanks much,
Jim

 
..."I've be skeptical that most of us could point any non-contact instrument reliably enough to detect a 40 deg temp difference in that region of an operating engine."

Actually, this is true and works very well. In fact, it is the only way I can get the carbs of old Merc triples, notorious for bad idling, dialed in correctly. You simply put the 'red dot' on the metal body of the plug and dial away. A minor change of idle mixture and the plug temperature changes within seconds--it's amazing!

I suspect a bad head gasket--sometning your surveyor should have been aware of! You might be able to make them PAY for the repair if that's the case. They're bonded for screw ups like that.

Jeff
 
I know with the temp gun I use the distance the gun is from the object being read is critical to getting a somewhat accurate reading. The red dot is for aiming only but the area being sensed is much broader the further away you get. Sort of like a flashlight spreading the light out with distance.

Erich
 
Hi Jeff,

Good to hear there is something to the IR gun method. I have one on the boatnow for air temp readings from AC/Heat system. Also use for lake water surfacetemp readings.

Bottom line Jeff is that I'm a million miles, away and in a different countryso chasing the surveyor would be pointless. I called head gasket when I firstsaw the smoke but, I couldn't stick around to confirm/manage the situation so.....I hadto trust the broker & surveyor to advise me. Since the listing broker wasalso the selling broker, I thought he would be looking out for both partiesequally. I should have been more diligent/demanding with my inspections. Noexcuses, I dropped the ball on this one.

I just hope that it's not any more serious than a head gasket!


Thanks for your input Jeff,
Jim
 
Hi Eric,

Good to know. I test the lake temp. at start/end of season as there is a warning on the AC units not to run heat if intake water supply is below 45 degrees (or somewhere around there).


Thanks Eric,
Jim
 
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