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Stating Problem 1997 454

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OnRalf

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I recently purchased a 1997 Carver with 500 hour on her 454 xl TBI and have found my first problem. When cold both engine start easily and run perfectly from idle to wot. The problem hapens when the engines are shut off for an hour or so. Both engines are hard to start. Not a starter problem as both turn over and over with occational teasing of a start. After several attemps with a small pause in between, the port will start and I start my treck home. Several more attemps and the starboard starts. Again both engine will run perfect from idle to wot. Changed all filters and cleand the disc filter as well. They were dirty but did not change the problem.

Thanks for your help!
 
Re: Stating Problem

Welcome to the forum. After you shut the engines off, remove the flame arrestors and check to see if the injectors are leaking fuel.
 
Last edited:
Re: Stating Problem

Thanks

Will check it this weekend and update the forum - If they are leaking, does that indicate cleaning or replacing?
 
I have the same motors you do.
Like mentioned, leaking and clogged injectors would be a good place to start.
Removing the injectors for cleaning and inspection is very simple and inexpensive.
Before doing that, need to order the kit to replace the seals. Let me know if you need the PN.
I would also recommend Manual Tecm-600 Crusader Manual
 
Thanks for all the input - I checked the injectors after a short run and they were not leaking after I shut the engines off. I was not able to check if they were actually spraying at start. I did find the coil wire and distributor contacts very corroded. Cleaned and it seemed to help alittle but still have the problem. Now the starboard starts right away but dies after 5 sec. Repeated attempts and they finally start and run great. I will order the manual and if you have the part nummber for the seal kits I can order them in advance. What about fuel additives to clean the injectors, anybody have any success with a certain brand.

Thanks again
 
Onralf,

Same engines, exact same problem. Seems like just started with warmer weather, as I've run my boat here in Texas all winter with no start problems. Fuel pumps are activating and pressure up and shut off, but it still seems that I'm not getting fuel to the first filter, the oberg puck. Almost like a vapor lock situation. Have you had any luck with cleaning the injectors?

Joe
 
Have not had time to try any remedies. It's an odd problem to troubleshoot since you have to get them hot and let them sit for an hour and a half. Kids and wife have other ideas when it comes to boating. I think I will try some form of injector /fuel cleaner and see if that helps. Moving the boat to a marina soon - will ask around there as well and update my discoveries.

Thanks again

Anybody know where is the best place to order an engine repair manual.
 
onralf,

Haven't really solved the problem, but now able to start the engines. On cold start, the manual says to push the throttle open fully and back prior to starting. Then advance enough to actually start the engines with butterflies open, about 1500 rpm. I do that now even when hot, and have to goose the throttle a few times to keep the engines running, but after about 20 seconds they will remain running. I really think it's a vapor lock problem with the fuel after getting hot, especially when running the generator. But at least I'm getting them started every time now.

Good luck with yours!

Joe
 
i had this exact problem on a 96 355 carver. chased it for several years trying everything we could think of.
in the end found the engine compartment getting to warm mainly with gen.running. added 2 extra blowers
in engine room and completly solved my problem.mite want to check you engine room temp when this is happening.
mine was getting up to 165 in summer, 98 outside temp. with gen running. with extra blowers stays around 120
and has not had problem anymore
 
Thanks for all the input!

I have been running with injector cleaner and have not seen any improvement. I have noticed that the problem gets worse when I run the generator. Infact the other night even the generator would quit. Waited about 35 min and it would start and run for about 30 min and die.
Ended up calling towboat us and while under tow for about 5 min I started the gen and fired up both engines. Will try the extra blowers before my wife makes me sell the boat lol.

OnRalf
 
Get an IR temp gun and check the TBI after your engines go thru the 'hot soak'...given the widespread use of ethanol, keeping things 'cool' is mandatory.

Does the exhaust smell rich when the hot, no-start occurs? If so, try cranking at WOT and see if it starts then. Yes, keep your hand on the throttle and reduce the rpm once the engine starts. Keep it at high idle for ~ a minute to make sure the fuel in the system cools off some.

Another item to check is the idle air passages: both the IAC and the throttle blades (they are known for carboning up with marine use). If there ias any detectable carbon buildup, the air flow is restricted enough to cause the ECM's calibration data to be off.
 
TWSLPS

While doing the research to install the extra blowers, the question cam up? Did you install two extra exhaust blowers, or did you install one air supply and one exhaust or any other combo? Did you use 3 or 4 inch blower/hose combo. One of the comments I got was to be carful and not pull out two much air and starve the engines and or have the fans burn out from pulling against the engine intakes. Do you run them under way or only after shut down for the hot soak?

Thanks

OnRalf
 
I installed 2 additional 4" blowers with 4" hose. 1 intake & 1 exhaust for each blower. the stock blowers were behind the
motors, the new ones were installed front of motors, one being right by the genset. i run these when the genset is running
& outside temp is warm. i only had the problem when weather was hot & gen running. since installing the blowers i have not
had any trouble with starting. last summer we had 2 months of 95 to 100 degree days with no problem starting engines.
 
I think extra blowers is the way to go. I'll be adding extras soon. As it is, I start mine several minutes prior to starting for the obvious fuel vapor reason, but it doesn't get shut off until 30 minutes back in the slip. On hot days after being out, even when back under cover in the slip, it's added work on the salon a/c to keep everything cool....removing that hot air after shutting down the engines can't hurt at all.
 
I have greatly improved the situation by installing an additional exhaust and two supply blowers that angle accross the gen and engines from the front and exhaust from the rear. I now have a total of 5 blowers ( 2 in ) ( 3 out ). I say improved because It still happens 1 out of 4 times. It seems I have to have the compartment below 110 F for at least 10 to 15 min and then they both fire right up. With the blowers on the gen will run as long as the fuel will last. Will update when more data ( boating time ) is collected.

Thanks again for all the good advice


OnRalf
 
If you look at how the vents are configured, I don't think there would be a problem starving the engine for air. The whole front part of the vent (75%), is dedicated to incoming air, and you'll notice even the vertical tube supports have holes in them to promote air flow. My vents each have two holes in the rear portion dedicated to exhaust air, with a solid vertical support separating the exhaust air from cooler incoming air. Joe
 
I had the exact same problem on my 1997 Carver 355 Aft Cabin. It was a water/fuel separator. Immediately after I drained it, the engine fired up all the time, every time.Good luck!
 
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