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Rank amature with a couple of questions

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field_trip

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"A buddy of mine just found th

"A buddy of mine just found this web site and recommended I check it out. I spent a couple of hours last night reading various Crusader threads. What a great group of boaters/mechanics. I am very glad he pointed me to this resource and am grateful for all the information.

I have a 1989 29' Phoenix SFX with the original twin 270HP Crusaders (roughly 1200 hours). I live in Southern California but bought the boat in Miami last spring and had it trailered home. I had the boat surveyed and a compression test performed prior to completing the purchase. Both engines had one cylinder that was more than 10% off, but the other seven were within 5 lbs or so of each other (138 to 143 if memory serves me). The mechanic and surveyor both said that it is most likely in need of a valve job. The boat ran great during the sea trial and ran well for me last summer during several weekend trips to Catalina Island. The manifolds, risers, elbows and intake all look pretty bad so I have removed them and am going to sand blast what is salvageable and replace what isn't. Since I've gone this far I think it makes sense to pull the heads off and send them to a machine shop for a valve job. I have a couple of questions. Is there any benefit to (or problem with) simply buying new heads over having the old ones gone through?

Also, the intakes look really awful after 20-some years of salt water puddling on them. Do any of you have Edlebrock (or similar) aluminum intakes on your engines? If so, how have they performed? Would you recommend this change or should I clean up the old ones? And lastly, I read that the Edlebrock carbs (1409?) appear to improve fuel efficiency for some folks but are a little sensitive (prone to flooding and slow to start) when sitting at an angle. I have what I assume are the original Rochesters on my engines. I'm the kind of guy who prescribes to the adage that "if it aint broke don't fix it" for most things, but on a boat I believe if it looks like it's old or in bad shape it's going to let you down at an inopportune time.

As the cost of this little project swells I'm considering buying the 1409's too, but man, my wife is gonna kill me when she looks at the bank statement. Is there any harm in putting off the carbs for a season?"
 
"Fresh or salt water cooled? D

"Fresh or salt water cooled? Don't bother with the sandblasting of risers and elbows. These are wear items and get replaced. There is nothing wrong with a valve job on existing heads if done right. Replacing the intake is possible, just make sure you have the clearance if it is higher. Also figure out where the salt water is getting on there and stop it. As long as the carbs run fine, don't worry about changing them.
You do know what boat stands for...Break Out Another Thousand. If she's gonna kill you for spending money on the boat, buy her something while you're at it."
 
"Welcome John!

Rich's a

"Welcome John!

Rich's advice is sound.

If it fresh water cooled, swapping the intake is possible and reasonable. As far as the preferred finish, I'll defer to Diver Dave who has gone thru that swap on his BBC's.

If you need to swap out the manifolds, I'd be incline to switch carbs at that time. Easy to do after the heads are back on, too.

At 1200 hours, it is likely time for the top end to be refreshed. The refurb vs new debate is straight forward. The new stuff (if complete) is ready to "bolt on" with no additional work required. The refurb will likely be cheaper but the quality of the end product will be controlled by the shop doing the work.


Don't let anybody talk you into any porting work - it just isn't required for the marine application. A little polishing may help depending upon the castings but will likely not produce any noticeable difference. Just make sure whoever you deal with understands this is a marine application."
 
Thanks for the advice. The us

Thanks for the advice. The use is salt water only. It is fresh water cooled. I hope the manifolds are still okay. The risers and elbows are probably not worth the sand it'd take to clean them up. I think I'll look into the new heads and see how much more they cost. Is there a difference between automotive and marine heads?

Thanks for the wife advice. She's sitting right next to me and says she likes you already!
 
"Briefly, after my 10 years in

"Briefly, after my 10 years in the salt of running a couple edlebrock carbs and intake manifolds:
1409's; yes, takes 15 seconds of cranking if left for a week or more; I need full choke, others don't seem to have this issue. But, quick starts if the carb still has fuel in it. NO, there is no flooding issue, ever. Mine were seriously abused during a fuel tank leak where these carbs dealt with a huge amount of water and crud over a couple years time. No major parts replaced in that 10 years of year-round operation.
Al intake manifold: I had mine professionally irridited before the install, they remain unpainted and look pretty good. I still spray stuff with that aerosol waxy anti-corrosion (CRC I think) as well. Make sure you run anticorrosion stuff in the coolant, the AL will erode, where the cast iron will not. I used Ultra Copper for the RTV, I have heard conflicting stories if that stuff is corrosive to AL.
All in all, I'm very happy with the long term durability of the system, and the 20% of the no-tune/out of the box fuel savings. I'm sure an expert with the Quadrajets can accomplish similar results, but for a non-carb guy like me, I like the less finicky AFB series."
 
"..."....takes 15 seconds

"..."....takes 15 seconds of cranking if left for a week or more; I need full choke, others don't seem to have this issue. But, quick starts if the carb still has fuel in it."

Strange how some boats (and carbs) suffer through this nonsense, where others never have the problem.

If you have an electric fuel pump AND your boat has a by-pass circuit to run the pump without the required oil pressure signal, then you're not one of those unfortunates mentioned above!

If you have a mechanical fuel pump, however, then you probably are.

I was one of the unfortunates until I finally installed an electric "boost pump" to fill the carbs before trying to start engines. It took 5 years for me to get it done, but I ended the year with it installed, working fine, and ready to go next year.

Jeff"
 
"John,

New heads are NOT ch

"John,

New heads are NOT cheap, Over $1200.00 each last time I looked and that was 3 years ago. My valve jobs which were done by a very competent shop, were under $500.00 and what a great job it was. I too have that carb "problem " if they sit a week or more. I like Jeffs' idea but have other things I deal with so I have not YET... done that, but I am going to. I have 2 more years based on Jeff's time line.

My 1992 454's are using the original intakes and they cleaned up VERY nicely with a glass bead cabinet. My biggest complaint during the entire process was the eroded 9/16 bolt heads on the exhaust manifolds which made conventional dis-assembly...IMPOSSIBLE !!!! My friend lives in Palos Verdes. I saw Catalina 20 years ago...NICE place to go boating."
 
"Thanks for the info Al. I th

"Thanks for the info Al. I think you're right, new heads are out of the question. Now to find a competent machine shop somewhere near home to do the work.. shouldn't be that hard. Disassembly/removal of manifolds and intake was surprisingly easy on my rig. I think whoever installed them used a good quality loc-tite-type thread sealer which prevented the whole mess from fusing together.

I bought a fishing boat ten years ago (24' Skipjack flybridge) foolishly thinking I would use it to fish. Instead 95% of the use was taking my wife and kids to Catalina for weekend getaways. We've been having a great time doing it but that boat was too small for a family of 4 (darned kids are growing fast!). This boat sleeps 6 in beds (the convertible settee is not good for an adult however) and has been perfect for what we use it for. I just hate opening the hatch and looking at those rusty old engines down there. We always make the crossing with another boat but I need to boost my own confidence level that we're not going to end up on the wrong end of a tow rope in the near future.

Thanks very much for the input. Happy New Year!!!"
 
"This syndrome must affect a l

"This syndrome must affect a lot of boaters. I too had it 4 years ago with this boat when I nervously let land get 300 yards away from us....After building confidence in the engines and skills of my own, we are routinely 30-40 miles or more out to sea...While I still hate to see that last strip of land disappear, we would go further but our fuel supplies dictate the distance, unless they have plans for a Shell station out there somewhere !"
 
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