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Install VRO on a non-VRO motor?

K

kevinj

Advanced Contributor
I know this sounds a little strange, but would it be possible to install a VRO pump on a motor that DID NOT originally come with VRO?

I have a 1979 Evinrude 140 that I rebuilt 6 years ago and is running in top shape. I also have 2 jet skis, both of which have automatic oiling systems. I keep the oil lines maintained on the jet skis and they work just fine. On these machines I have become very spoiled with the ability to simply put gas in the tank and go; no pre-mixing, carrying an oil ratio bottle, keeping a gallon of 2-stroke oil in the storage compartment. In other words, they allow me to be lazy.

With a ratio-rite bottle it's not too bad getting the correct 50:1 when I fuel the boat. But......it would be awful nice to put gas in the tank and go :rolleyes:

I was reading the article at http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html about the history of VRO and I was looking at the cutaway diagram of the VRO system. Am I correct that the only thing operating the VRO system is the pulse line from the crankcase? If that's the case, wouldn't it be possible to simply install a barb fitting on the pulse connection of my '79 Evinrude, plumb in a tank and lines for the oil feed, and use a VRO pump in place of the straight fuel pump?

I know this goes against the logic of many people that think VRO is evil and they switch over to pre-mix to avoid castastrophic failures. However, I've found a well maintained oiling system works just fine and is incredibly convenient.

So, could this be a reality for my old engine or am I just chasing a pipe dream?

Thanks,
Kevin
 
I know there are conversion kits available for various motors out there. A friend converted a Merc 15hp. I don't think it sounds strange at all...I much prefer the VRO over pre-mixing. Many would disagree but it boils down to whatever "floats your boat".
 
I'm thinking if I find a pump that is for engines before the System Check came out that is pretty well should just bolt up. I realize I'd be running without any kind of warning systems for the oiling side of the pump, but I don't have any on the jet skis either.

I've found remote oil tanks on Ebay for decent prices but most sellers want a pretty good amount for the VRO pumps. I'm thinking if I can probably put the entire system together for under $400. If I can confirm this will work, I'll probably keep watching Ebay over the winter and piece things together. I'd be curious also to know if the warning system for VRO-2 pumps is in the motor or if it's in the control box. If it's in the controls that may make it possible to us a 'newer' pump and have some sort of warning system.

KJ
 
I think it's doable. you'd need a 1984 or later airbox with the mounting bracket, the pump, assorted hose, the oil tank etc. Don't forget the pulse limiter. I suspect you'd need to drill and tap a hole for the pulse hose. Perhaps you could modify the old fuel pump in some way to utilize the pulse feed from the boss on the block. I don't think the alarming is insurmountable. There is a kit to upgrade the 1984 and 1985 models that weren't originally equipped with a no oil alarm. You'd still have to find a spot to tie in the wiring for the low oil sensor in the tank. The electronics are in the tank and pump to modulate the horn for the correct signal. The horn is connected to B+ in the control box, and the tan wire leading from the horn to the engine simply grounds out the return path. Currently, it's probably just connected to the head temp sensors. If the current fuel pump has the filter inside it, you'll need to add a fuel filter. You might keep an eye out for a newer 2.0L looper V4 thats blown or has issues to use as a parts donor.
 
Kevin,
If you are dead set on doing it, it can certainly be done. Including the low oil alarm and VRO2 oil sensor alarm. However, I'd think hard about it before you jump! It's been my experience that the cost to maintain the VRO system is not worth the time you save over pre mix. Not to mention the peace of mind you have premixing. I'm not familiar with injection systems of jet skis, but the VRO system requires a suction lift be maintained between the oil tank and the pump. any loose connections faulty check valves or cracked hoses will result in introduction of air which if you opt for the VRO2 pump should result in a beeping horn alarm. without that alarm if your lucky you will get an overheat alarm if not so lucky a seized engine. I learned this the hard way. A oil hose cracked right where it went over the barb on a trip to the lake (it looked fine from the top the crack formed on the bottom) and resulted in an overhaul. Also in my experience Pumps either need to be rebuilt (air motor & fuel diaphrams) or replaced about every 3rd season and they're not cheap. I realize there are many here who disagree with my assesment, but I can only speak from my experience. Many will say my unfortunate overhaul was the result of poor maintenance and maybe so but the hose did not appear dry rotted or otherwise give any indication that it was about to fail! and had I been premixing and the hose cracked the fuel pump would have lost prime and the engine would have either starved for fuel or not run at all saving $1800.
 
John,
I understand your concerns and I too have in fact experienced a oil related engine failure. I have one jet ski that a local shop had installed a reman'd engine in it just before I bought it. I ran it for a year with no problems, but early the following season I trashed the center cylinder. I installed a new reman myself (long story there) and automatically assumed the oil pump was the problem so in the process I yanked all the oiling system, blocked off the oil pump connection, and went to premix. On Jet skis (At least on my Polaris models) the oil pump is driven by a gear on the crank shaft.

Later, I realized that if the pump had failed, I would have trashed all 3 cylinders. Looking back I recalled the oil tubing felt very hard and there was a large amount of oil in the bottom of the hull. As I backtracked all of this I realized the powersports shop had simply used all the original oil lines when they installed the new engine and that the tubing had just failed due to age.

This past spring I re-acquired all the necessary parts and reinstalled the oiling system on that ski. My thinking is that I the system works just fine if I simply maintain the hoses and check them frequently for air bubbles or other problems. The reason I did this was primarily the convenience of just filling up with straight gas and to conserve on oil consumption. Those would be the same reasons I would consider doing this on the '79 Evinrude as well.

KJ
 
dcramer said:
I think it's doable. you'd need a 1984 or later airbox with the mounting bracket, the pump, assorted hose, the oil tank etc. Don't forget the pulse limiter.
Click to expand...
Pulse limiter? Can you explain that more?

dcramer said:
I suspect you'd need to drill and tap a hole for the pulse hose. Perhaps you could modify the old fuel pump in some way to utilize the pulse feed from the boss on the block.
Click to expand...
Recently I was tracking down a problem and thought I might have a bad fuel pump diaphragm. To my surprise, when I removed the pump I noticed the opening for the pulse was already threaded so I'm thinking it would just be a matter of installing a hose barb fitting in that hole.

dcramer said:
I don't think the alarming is insurmountable. There is a kit to upgrade the 1984 and 1985 models that weren't originally equipped with a no oil alarm. You'd still have to find a spot to tie in the wiring for the low oil sensor in the tank. The electronics are in the tank and pump to modulate the horn for the correct signal. The horn is connected to B+ in the control box, and the tan wire leading from the horn to the engine simply grounds out the return path. Currently, it's probably just connected to the head temp sensors.
Click to expand...
Hmm, the electronics side doesn't sound too difficult. I'm wondering if I might overcome all of this by simply finding controls for a '86 to '96 engine. I would think that has all the harness connections and warning horn wiring I would need.


dcramer said:
If the current fuel pump has the filter inside it, you'll need to add a fuel filter.
Click to expand...
I'm good there. I have installed a spin-on, water separating fuel filter on the boat several years ago and I change the filter cartridge every season.

dcramer said:
You might keep an eye out for a newer 2.0L looper V4 thats blown or has issues to use as a parts donor.
Click to expand...
That's a good idea. If I can't find the individual pieces I could certainly just look for the a complete motor or power head that is trashed and scavenge off that.

KJ
 
kevinj said:
Pulse limiter? Can you explain that more?


Recently I was tracking down a problem and thought I might have a bad fuel pump diaphragm. To my surprise, when I removed the pump I noticed the opening for the pulse was already threaded so I'm thinking it would just be a matter of installing a hose barb fitting in that hole.
Click to expand...

The pulse limiter is between the crankcase (source of pulse/ power for fuel pump air motor) and the pump. It's either screwed in:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...478770357&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MESELX:IT

or inline: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...478772140&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MESELX:IT

As you can see, it would provide the barbed hose fitting you're talking about. But, it controls the pulse that actually gets to the fuel pump, preventing damage.
 
d.boat said:
The pulse limiter is between the crankcase (source of pulse/ power for fuel pump air motor) and the pump. It's either screwed in:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150478770357&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMESELX%3AIT

or inline: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...478772140&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MESELX:IT

As you can see, it would provide the barbed hose fitting you're talking about. But, it controls the pulse that actually gets to the fuel pump, preventing damage.
Click to expand...
Got it. I have seen these before, I just didn't know that was the function they provide.

The thread-in version would be perfect since my pulse fitting is already tapped. I probably could just get these at my local shop. He has several parts laying around from old motors customers gave up on. I may just have to see if he might have all the parts on hand to piece together a system. :rolleyes:

KJ
 
Kevin, The alarms use the overheat horn on your control box. you simply locate the horn circuit on the terminal strip and connect one wire from each alarm (VRO2 Pump sensor & oil tank sensor) there, and ground the other wire from each sensor. There is one more wire from the VRO2 pump I believe it goes to the tach lead but don't quote me on that! If you buy the kit dcramer mentioned for the 84-85 models it has instructions and wiring diagrams.
 
John 0558 said:
Kevin, The alarms use the overheat horn on your control box. you simply locate the horn circuit on the terminal strip and connect one wire from each alarm (VRO2 Pump sensor & oil tank sensor) there, and ground the other wire from each sensor. There is one more wire from the VRO2 pump I believe it goes to the tach lead but don't quote me on that! If you buy the kit dcramer mentioned for the 84-85 models it has instructions and wiring diagrams.
Click to expand...

Thank you, that is fantastic info!

I'll have to start some serious parts searching and see if I can find an 84/85 kit. IF not, I'll just see if I can piece it together.

Kevin
 
You may use the latest 'universal' pump.
Got 4 wires and not 3 as the old one.
Number 4 is RED and should be connected to Battery plus at the starter solenoid.
The other 3 are:
Brown - goes to alarm circuit
Gray - goes to terminal (rev counter)
Black - ground.
 
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