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I'm getting frustrated. Hard Start.

J

Jake615615

New member
2009 Honda BF200. This one is kicking my A$$. Just want to start with any help is very much appreciated! So…. Last season boat ran / started great all year until the last start up / trip to take the boat out of the water for the year. My port had a hard time starting – real hard. It would crank crank crank, and sputter here and there, but got it running. It ran great idol up to WOT and everywhere in between. Week or two later went to start it on the trailer, and same thing crank crank. Anyway, I found if I turn it off soon as it starts running smooth and restart, it starts perfect. Also doesn’t have to be hot. Once I fight and get it started, it runs real ruff and sometimes even stalls. This only happens for about 20-30 seconds, and it will smooth out and you could balance a wineglass on it.

Few things to note -No codes, Compression was good, Drained the VST twice - seemed full. Held the drain hose up and could see the level. Fuel was 100% clean both times. HP and LP filters replaced, Fuel pressure key on 42PSI, while cranking seems to go to 47PSI, if it doesn’t start seems to drop back to 42PSI, key off after engine running it’s about 30PSI, and Key on for say 5-8 seconds, then key off (without being started) stays at about 42PSI. Holds 42PSI for a good beer or two, come back next day it is at about 5PSI. (Done this check twice). Seems reasonable? Turn the key back on it goes back up to 42PSI.

PSI look normal? I almost feel like if it stayed at the 42PSI it would solve the problem, but soon as you turn the key on, it has no problem going up, maybe air instead of fuel in there? VST is full?

My gut is telling me it has to be a fuel issue? Had to swap parts, but yeah, I’m getting frustrated. I have its matching brother right next to it. Even swapped the ECM, Main relay, and temp sensor. Unless anyone can think of something I should try?

Both engines only have about 215 hours. Huge Honda fan, but first outboards and they seem to be the worst engines I have ever owned. Guessing the guy prior didn’t take care of them or just because it was sitting because of the low hours. Just got done pulling the power head off the other one for crank and oil pump seals, that one fires right up. Anyway, thanks so much for reading this, if anyone has advise, I want to thank you in advance!
 
Just try something, try turn the ignition on then off after fuel pump has cycled without starting the engine, do this about 4 times then try starting and see what happens. If the fuel system is losing prime then it should start using this procedure. If this fails, try swopping the O2 sensors, I've had them cause this once although not this bad
 
Thanks so much for the replies! I have not turned it on and off 4 times, but have done it twice than start, no good. Huh, I have never thought of an 02 Sensor for starting, could try it. Odd, so the other day I ordered a new HP filter. It got caught up in the mail and I got impatient so figured I would try without one. It started right up! Next day crank crank, you got to be kidding me. I was so happy that night.

So right now i am waiting on parts. I took out the VST, HP pump, and isolator / screen out. Wasted my time everything was spotless. For some reason i had to rip the the HP pump out of the case with plyers giving it everything i had. Then had to break the strainer screen to git it out. Even broken, i cant get it to go back in, too tight. Weird i think. i spent a few hours looking on here trying to understand how it comes out. Service manual is no help so i started tugging.

Load test the batteries they were very good. Pulled main on off switch and cleaned the lugs and terminals and really they were already clean and tight. Both motors run off the same lug, both motors turn real strong. Cleaned the starter lug, terminals, main ground, and like 5 other grounds i found. All those should be good to go.

Thanks again for taking the rime to assist! Once i get the VST back together i plan to have the wife turn the key while i pump the ball. The ball gets nice and firm, but both engines dont stay stay rock hard. One more thing, once started and its stumbling in the first 30 seconds, i turned the engine off, and immediately pulled some spark plugs they were not wet. I'm stumped!
 
Don't worry, that screen troubles most people struggle, there's a trick to them using a thin blade screwdriver to release the clips. I feel your frustration with tis motor. If all your efforts with the VST fail, try checking spark on innitial crank, if spark is good then remove the plennum and disconnect all the injectors( if that engine starts with no plennum it will o er rev instantly) , then using a noid light? check injector pulse. One or the other must be failing for it to fail to start. Just as a matter of interest, what colour were the spark plugs when you took them out for comp test?
 
Well, I wanted to give and update. First thanks to both of you for the help / suggestions / ideas!



Over the last few weeks, I have read just about every post on this forum concerning the symptoms I was seeing. There was a few out there that did not have a final answer or, were never figured out and deemed a possible ECM issue and continued using it as is. I wanted to fallow up because I’m sure others may read this and there is nothing worse than spending the time to read an entire post only to find no clear answers at the end.



Got the VST put pack together. Also pulled the small screen from the fuel line behind the regulator (it was already clean). Mind you this motor cranks over very strong and would not suspect a large voltage drop, I suspected a fuel issue also because it starts right up after it has been running for greater than 30 seconds. Anyway, I did not have a helper the other day to measure the voltage drop while cranking. So, I turned the key on and went to the starter to jump the solenoid with a screwdriver. This was so I could measure the voltage drop and crank it on my own. It started instantly! I mean the voltmeter didn’t even have a half second to register. Let it sit another day and it started right up again! Ok, so I’m on to something here. Took the starter out of the starboard engine and installed it in this hard to start engine. It started right up again this morning!



I personally have not seen a starter fail in this manner before. It showed no signs of struggling. If anything, this bad starter turns the engine over a tad faster than the good motor. With all this said, what’s the deal here? Anyone ever see this before? I assume the flat spade terminal on the starter that is triggered with the small white wire is the issue? Maybe that terminal is shorted to the + main lead in the solenoid, but how can it only be shorted when cranking? As for the double power leads coming from the battery – both are connected at the battery / main on, off switch. They run separately from there to the engine. The fat one goes to the starter lug, and the other goes to the round connector just above the starter. Looks like that feeds the main relay and fuse box? Main power leads appear to be OEM and not tampered with. Does this sound right?

610 bucks for a new starter is outrageous! Anyone have any ideas on fixing this starter?



Thanks again in advance! I sure hope this will also help someone else in the future too!
 
What happens when you put the seemingly faulty starter on the other engine? It could be drawing slightly more and you have a voltage drop across the isolator. This is why the fit up manual states the smaller positive wire must be connected to the battery, not the isolator.
 
iang6766 said:
What happens when you put the seemingly faulty starter on the other engine? It could be drawing slightly more and you have a voltage drop across the isolator. This is why the fit up manual states the smaller positive wire must be connected to the battery, not the isolator.
Click to expand...


You’re talking the battery isolators? As in what keeps the battery's separate from draining one another? There is a battery isolator in the boat. but i think the power lead goes right to the on / off switch for both of them. I think the wire was built together like a speaker wire but one larger than the other.
 
Hey mate,

I have a 2021 250hp honda doing exactly the same thing as yours. identical. hard to start either warm or cold.
but if you start it back up a second time within a few minutes it starts perfectly.
If left for more than 5-10 minutes between starts its hard to stard.
This is regardless if engine is warm or cold.

Not even the national dealer has been able to fix the issue.

The national dealer said its likely Voltage drop on the ECU supply.

So i ran a separate 16mm cable from direct from my batteries to the ECU. this eliminated voltage drop as much as possible. i even paralled up my start batteries to minimise VD and it made zero difference.

I do however have an aftermarket starter on mine.

Thanks for all your info. it would be nice to fix the issue.

Let us know if swapping starters causes the issue to transfer.
 
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