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Honda BF25 2001 # 3 cylinder fires off and on

Rick Banks

New member
I have an electrical issue. Coils are good. # 3 Cylinder Spark goes in and out. Start at ramp run 200 yards it drops out . I bring it to Idle and in less than a minute it sputters some jumps back up to run another 150 yards and drops out again. I can run on a hose and sometimes it fires and other times it don't. any ideas, I am thinking the CDI is going bad.
Thanks,
Rick
 
If you have already put new spark plugs in your motor, you need to do a few more tests before you should accuse the CDI.

If you have a timing light, connect the timing light to the failing cylinder and watch what it does when it fails. Does the light go away? Does it speed up?

Then compare it to the other cylinders that you think are working ok.

If the light goes away, you could have a bad coil or pulsar. It could be the CDI, but you can not know for sure yet.

If you have a peak reading voltmeter, you could compare the outputs of the pulsars as well as comparing the inputs to the spark coils. If the voltage is the same for all cylinders going into the CDI unit but not the same coming out, then suspect the CDI. If the outputs are all the same, then it is probably a coil.

You could always switch coils to verify, if that is the case. You may have to use jumpers to switch things around.

If the light pulses faster, you could have issues with the pulsars or the CDI could be crossfiring and firing at incorrect times on that cylinder.

Mike
 
If you have already put new spark plugs in your motor, you need to do a few more tests before you should accuse the CDI.

If you have a timing light, connect the timing light to the failing cylinder and watch what it does when it fails. Does the light go away? Does it speed up?

Then compare it to the other cylinders that you think are working ok.

If the light goes away, you could have a bad coil or pulsar. It could be the CDI, but you can not know for sure yet.

If you have a peak reading voltmeter, you could compare the outputs of the pulsars as well as comparing the inputs to the spark coils. If the voltage is the same for all cylinders going into the CDI unit but not the same coming out, then suspect the CDI. If the outputs are all the same, then it is probably a coil.

You could always switch coils to verify, if that is the case. You may have to use jumpers to switch things around.

If the light pulses faster, you could have issues with the pulsars or the CDI could be crossfiring and firing at incorrect times on that cylinder.

Mike


I have ruled out the coils and a bad plug. the pulsar is used for all 3 cylinders 1 and 2 dead on. I was wondering should I check the magnet on the flywheel. I will use the timing light to check as advised. I appreciate the help. Its very weird, When it fires you pull the plug and it lopes as expected, when it has no fire it of course makes no change, when not firing I pulled the plug to see if it is fule wet, it is so it ruled out fule. Again thank you
 
There are actually three pulsars....one for each cylinder in one unit. So, it is possible that one might have an internal high resistance short to another. If you do not have the manual, at least check the circuit diagram in the back of the owner's manual and you will see what I mean. http://cdn.powerequipment.honda.com/marine/pdf/manuals/31ZV7614.pdf

The magnets on the flywheel are energizing the exciter coil, which provides the high voltage to all the coils through the cdi. So, if two cylinders are good, the exciter coil is probably putting out the correct voltage.

Back to the pulsars..... If you do not have the proper tester to measure the outputs (which are very small.... .5v or less), check each lead to ground with an ohm meter...and compare that way. Also measure from pulsar output lead to the other two leads. Those measurements should be the same.

One other thing to check are the timing marks to be sure that the timing belt did not jump a notch.

Mike
 
There are actually three pulsars....one for each cylinder in one unit. So, it is possible that one might have an internal high resistance short to another. If you do not have the manual, at least check the circuit diagram in the back of the owner's manual and you will see what I mean. http://cdn.powerequipment.honda.com/marine/pdf/manuals/31ZV7614.pdf

The magnets on the flywheel are energizing the exciter coil, which provides the high voltage to all the coils through the cdi. So, if two cylinders are good, the exciter coil is probably putting out the correct voltage.

Back to the pulsars..... If you do not have the proper tester to measure the outputs (which are very small.... .5v or less), check each lead to ground with an ohm meter...and compare that way. Also measure from pulsar output lead to the other two leads. Those measurements should be the same.

One other thing to check are the timing marks to be sure that the timing belt did not jump a notch.

Mike


Using an OMS check. i unplugged the 4 prong connector to the pulsar. using grey as ground an touching the red test pin to the BL-WT stripe it read 306.8 the BL wire read 312.1 and the BL-GRN stripe read 313.6, I think you hit it dead on. Thank you
 
The book says they should be anywhere from 290 -325 ohms. So, that may not be your problem.

Do check ohms between any of those leads and engine ground. It should be an open circuit. If you do get some resistance, then there is an internal short to ground.

Mike
 
The book says they should be anywhere from 290 -325 ohms. So, that may not be your problem.

Do check ohms between any of those leads and engine ground. It should be an open circuit. If you do get some resistance, then there is an internal short to ground.

Mike


All is good, on this end, I took last night and started the motor to see if any spark at all exists. It has a weak continual spark but when in the cylinder it does not lite the fuel. At high rev it kicks in. This thing is a head ache. but it only has about 40 hrs on it. Freshwater only . when it runs it runs Great. Giving me a head Ache for sure. I appreciate all the help and tests. I found a scrap yard that has a 01 25 parting out, the Guy is going to let me try the pulsars off it. He said he might have the CDI. Thank you again,
Rick
 
What differences did you see using a timing light?

If no differences, then you may not have a spark problem. The spark in Hondas is very small and many times are mistaken for bad spark.

Your problem could be as simple as plugged idle circuit in the bottom carburetor. One way to check (that works sometimes) is, once you get the motor running, disconnect the choke linkage between all of the carburetors. Then way, you can manually activate the choke in any one of the cylinders. When the cylinder is failing, try partially pulling out the choke (on the front of the engine) to activate the bottom choke and see if the engine picks up in rpm. If it does, then you have a carb issue. If you activate the choke on one of the good carburetors, then the engine should bogg down a little.

Mike
 
What differences did you see using a timing light?

If no differences, then you may not have a spark problem. The spark in Hondas is very small and many times are mistaken for bad spark.

Your problem could be as simple as plugged idle circuit in the bottom carburetor. One way to check (that works sometimes) is, once you get the motor running, disconnect the choke linkage between all of the carburetors. Then way, you can manually activate the choke in any one of the cylinders. When the cylinder is failing, try partially pulling out the choke (on the front of the engine) to activate the bottom choke and see if the engine picks up in rpm. If it does, then you have a carb issue. If you activate the choke on one of the good carburetors, then the engine should bogg down a little.

Mike


Sounds good, I will do that this morning. I did have a question in the carb when I pulled it apart the bottom screw cap I removed. I pulled out the outer tube and inner tube with the o-ring on the top. The inner tube has two tiny holes both are clear. but my question is, is the inner tube supposed to be hollow in its center. If I remember it was not. Again thank you, Much respect!!!!!!!
 
Yes. The inside should be clear. The hole is very small. The fuel for idle goes up the tube into the top of the carb and gets combined with air from the idle her in the front of the carb. It then goes to the little pin holes at the rear top on the venturi.

Most brake clean or carb clean cans come with a little straw. Stick that straw into that hole where the long skinney tube goes and make sure you have good flow out of those pin holes. Spraying through the idle jet should do the same thing. If you can remove the idle mixture screw...it It should do the same thing from there. If not, then you have to clean out the pin holes with small wires.

The small tube ...aka jet set...is sometimes hard to clean well, so usually replace them if they are clogged.

Mike
 
Yes. The inside should be clear. The hole is very small. The fuel for idle goes up the tube into the top of the carb and gets combined with air from the idle her in the front of the carb. It then goes to the little pin holes at the rear top on the venturi.

Most brake clean or carb clean cans come with a little straw. Stick that straw into that hole where the long skinney tube goes and make sure you have good flow out of those pin holes. Spraying through the idle jet should do the same thing. If you can remove the idle mixture screw...it It should do the same thing from there. If not, then you have to clean out the pin holes with small wires.

The small tube ...aka jet set...is sometimes hard to clean well, so usually replace them if they are clogged.

Mike


I just did the chock test, running I engage the botom Choke it speeds up. The other 2 manual engaged start to flood and slow down. So I think when running and it getting rough to have to go to idle, its running itself out of fule on number 3. Time for jets. I will try to clean it first but def order a new set. Thank you sir. I will keep you posted. This is what happens when a 2 stroke guy has to learn. Thank you man!!!
 
I just did the chock test, running I engage the botom Choke it speeds up. The other 2 manual engaged start to flood and slow down. So I think when running and it getting rough to have to go to idle, its running itself out of fule on number 3. Time for jets. I will try to clean it first but def order a new set. Thank you sir. I will keep you posted. This is what happens when a 2 stroke guy has to learn. Thank you man!!!


Still fighting it, Changed the CDI still doing it.
 
I did the timing light no breakdown at all. I took the Carbs off and got out the Magnification and inspected each Idle tube. #2 has a small crack half way around just below the two holes in the middle. # 1 has a crack going down the tube about 1/4 inch can see without Magnification. #3 was Plugged. Will the cracked tubes cause the motor to load up from Full throttle? I ordered the Jet set anyway and put it back together. It Idles smother than it ever has.
 
It sounds like you are almost there.

The cracks in the tubes can cause erratic vacuum balance and cause an issue with idle and acceleration.

If you noticed the pin sized holes at the top of the venturi... there is one pin hole at the back of the carburetor exposed with the butterfly closed. As you open the butterfly (while accelerating), the other holes become exposed to the intake and allow more fuel/air to enter into the intake.

Those tubes supply the fuel. So, if there is anything wrong with them (like a crack allowing too much air), the engine will not do well while accelerating.

When you install the new ones, but a little oil on the small o ring so that it slips right into the hole at the top of the carburetor. You should not need a lot of pressure to put it in.

Way to hang in there!

Mike
 
Yeah!.....Way to hang in there!

Jet Set tubes STRIKE AGAIN!

BUT.....So does hondadude!!


I really would LOVE to know. ......

Just EXACTLY......

How much money you have SAVED people since you started helping on this forum???

Another SUCCESS story brought to you by hondadude!

Goodonya MIKE!!!
 
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