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Evinrude GT200 #1and#2 not firing correctly

R

ronchast

Member
Would a bad regulator cause a Power Pak to drop a pair of cylinders? 1990 GT200 Evinrude

This is the demon possessed motor that had the backfiring out #4 carb and a dozen other issues, all that fixed, got it running this time and lost cylinders #1 and #2. Last time on the water I felt it lose power at WOT so I headed straight for the trailer fearing the worst. Checked it out in the shop and found the two cylinders 1 & 2 were not contributing to the idle effort, actually they were hurting the idle. I pulled the Power Pak and found the regulator had obviously burned up, black center, black streaks running through it. I had patched this regulator up once when I found the connectors had melted through at the junction block because they were loose. I checked it with a carbon load on the battery and it was still working, so I think it just now must have finally went when we were on the water at WOT. -My question is --- Would this cause Cylinders 1 and 2 - the Orange and Blue Primary pairs in the Power Pak to quit - did it damage the Power pak? It was a brand new Power Pak... Any thoughts? Would a bad regulator cause a Power Pak to drop a pair of cylinders?

Thanks everybody!
ronchast
 
Nope. Highly unlikely. (Others will disagree)

Check the output of the timer base, specifically (on each side rubber connector) the blue wires. The wires from the timerbase to pack are defined:
Blue = top cylinder
Purple = Middle cylinder
Green = Bottom cylinder

White and black/white = bias voltages supplied to timerbase from pack.

You must use a DVA meter for this test as the voltage spikes are too small and of very short duration.

www.cdielectronics.com for a DVA chart defining what you should be seeing.
 
daselbee said:
Nope. Highly unlikely. (Others will disagree)

Check the output of the timer base, specifically (on each side rubber connector) the blue wires. The wires from the timerbase to pack are defined:
Blue = top cylinder
Purple = Middle cylinder
Green = Bottom cylinder

White and black/white = bias voltages supplied to timerbase from pack.

You must use a DVA meter for this test as the voltage spikes are too small and of very short duration.

www.cdielectronics.com for a DVA chart defining what you should be seeing.
Click to expand...
THANK YOU ! I will check it out as soon as I get the new reg/rec installed so I can run it again. I have several good DVA's and a factory manual, this engine has a brand new factory timer base I just put on about 1 running hour ago - the original timer base was open on the port connector. Once I replaced that it ran, but not too well, I had no idea what was ahead - this motor came from the east coast sight unseen. My friend bought it and I "offered" to help him check it out for the season... 9 problems later, I am still finding more strange things with this motor...

Thanks for your input, I really do appreciate all the eyes I can get

Ron
 
Good luck to you. I hope your pack is not blown.
If the reg/rect self-destructed, it is possible that the voltage on the output (12v) spiked high.
I guess, contradicting my own original post, that it could blow something...the pack or the TB....but the conditions would have to be just right.

You can run it with the reg/rectifier disconnected if you want. No harm there.
 
daselbee said:
Good luck to you. I hope your pack is not blown.
If the reg/rect self-destructed, it is possible that the voltage on the output (12v) spiked high.
I guess, contradicting my own original post, that it could blow something...the pack or the TB....but the conditions would have to be just right.

You can run it with the reg/rectifier disconnected if you want. No harm there.
Click to expand...

Run without the regulator connected? I usually don't do that, it's ok with this?

That would be my luck with this thing - nothing has been normal with it yet -;) New Pack and TB ...

Ron
 
The only connection from the stator / flywheel alternator machine TO the reg/rectifier is on those two yellow wires. You surely know them. They are the ones that burned....

So, no connection right there means the stator/flywheel is generating voltage into an open circuit. No current flowing, even tho it is still trying to gen a charge to the reg/rect.
The point is...no current flowing. No possibility of burning anything up if no current flowing.....
 
daselbee said:
The only connection from the stator / flywheel alternator machine TO the reg/rectifier is on those two yellow wires. You surely know them. They are the ones that burned....

So, no connection right there means the stator/flywheel is generating voltage into an open circuit. No current flowing, even tho it is still trying to gen a charge to the reg/rect.
The point is...no current flowing. No possibility of burning anything up if no current flowing.....
Click to expand...

Right, I was thinking about it differently , I understand - No Load, no heat, no damage. I was thinking about the battery, power pak with stator connected and no regulator connected would spike and deliver AC without the rectifier in the circuit - I was thinking about an entirely different set up... Just disconnect the stator wires-
 
daselbee said:
right
you will have to charge the batt with an external charger....no biggie.
Click to expand...

Just thinking... bad habit... running WOT, 5000 RPM, regulator blows and I lose cylinders 1 and 2 instantly - TB? PP ? Voltage spike? I have seen voltage spikes from loose battery cables do this, but I don't think I have ever had a regulator blow at WOT before. BEST TEST? Blue wire from TB probably first

Thanks

Ron
 
Well....there IS a way.....
If you have the fortitude....

You know the two rubber connectors from the timerbase to the pack. Each one has 4 wires in it, as I described, blue, purple and green being the key ones.

Right side blue wire is #1, left side blue wire is #2.

Concentrate on the right side....IF you pulled the blue wire AND the purple wire out of the rubber Amphenol plug (male pins only), and swapped them, you could tell which part was bad...the timer base or the pack. If on the right side, you have now lost spark to #3 and have re-gained spark on #1, then the TB is bad. If the fault does not follow the wire colors, I.E. still no spark on #1, then the pack is bad.

You have to be good!!! Those pins are easy to break, detach the wire, fail to go back into the rubber plug properly....a lot can go wrong.
 
daselbee said:
Well....there IS a way.....
If you have the fortitude....

You know the two rubber connectors from the timerbase to the pack. Each one has 4 wires in it, as I described, blue, purple and green being the key ones.

Right side blue wire is #1, left side blue wire is #2.

Concentrate on the right side....IF you pulled the blue wire AND the purple wire out of the rubber Amphenol plug (male pins only), and swapped them, you could tell which part was bad...the timer base or the pack. If on the right side, you have now lost spark to #3 and have re-gained spark on #1, then the TB is bad. If the fault does not follow the wire colors, I.E. still no spark on #1, then the pack is bad.

You have to be good!!! Those pins are easy to break, detach the wire, fail to go back into the rubber plug properly....a lot can go wrong.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I may have to try that, hope not - I do have the special tools to take them out and even repair them if necessary, but, wow, great thinking. I should have figured that out!! Once upon a time I might have... Real pain in the butt, but if all else fails I may give it a shot. UPS just delivered the regulator, so here we go....


THANKS !!!

Ron
 
REGULATOR QUESTION - The new regulator only has 4 wires, Red, 2 yellows and a gray - the old one has an additional blue wire? According to everything I can find online, I have the correct regulator 0583689 - Rectifier Regulator 35 AMP with Gasket - Anyone know what to do with the wire that connected to the blue wire coming out of the regulator?

Thanks

Ron
 
johnnygjr said:
tach wire???wild guess
Click to expand...


New reglators only have 4 wires, internally grounded. just dead head the blue wire and it works great- It also fixed the the # 1 and #2 cylinders that were misfiring all over the place - I did not thinl a regulator would cause that, but they can and do. CDI talks about it in their service manual and I just experienced it. Now I get 14.4 VDC at idle.

Thanks everyone!

Ron
 
Are you effin kidding me???!!!! I woulda bet real money on that thing not having any effect at all.

Sorry I led you wrong. Very sorry.
 
daselbee said:
Are you effin kidding me???!!!! I woulda bet real money on that thing not having any effect at all.

Sorry I led you wrong. Very sorry.
Click to expand...


Right with you there brother, had me fooled too ! Check it out...

CDI Electronics Troubleshooting guide - really helpful and much better than the factory manual in terms of real details

Page 54
(1988-1998 200-300 HP Quick-Start Models)
NO SPARK ON ANY CYLINDER:
1. Disconnect BOTH of the Black/Yellow stop wires AT THE POWER PACK(S) and retest. If the engine’s ignition has spark, the
stop circuit has a fault. Check the key switch, harness and shift switch.
2. Disconnect the Yellow wires from the stater to the rectifier and retest. If the engine sparks, replace the rectifier.

There is a lot more, but this and the fact that as soon as I replaced the rectifier, the top two cylinders straightened right up made me a believer...
Thanks,

Ron

 
Last edited:
Oh yes, I have read that many times, but I never believed it. I still don't know how the yellow pair coil that charges the battery can affect the ignition coils.
There is no electrical connection between the two.

The ignition is stand alone. No battery is required for the ignition to operate. So how can the battery charging circuit affect the ignition?

I would really like to know exactly why this can happen.
 
daselbee said:
Oh yes, I have read that many times, but I never believed it. I still don't know how the yellow pair coil that charges the battery can affect the ignition coils.
There is no electrical connection between the two.

The ignition is stand alone. No battery is required for the ignition to operate. So how can the battery charging circuit affect the ignition?

I would really like to know exactly why this can happen.
Click to expand...

I am doing some research to figure it out - if I find anything I will share it with you.... this whole motor has been that way - weird problem after weird problem that defy common sense - I been wrenching all my life and this thing has been my biggest challenge yet. :cool:
 
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