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2016 bf 90 Seized?

H

hondanewbee

New member
Hello all,
I went to start my honda 90 and all it did was make a clunk sound it would not turn over.I had just replaced my battery as It was seemingly harder to start in the last few times I used it.I
I tried the starting cord and could not get it to move.
I took out all the spark plugs and it still just went clunk.The flywheel moves slightly each time the starter engages.I removed the starter and I can see the ring gear,it is looks good,no rust.
I but a socket on the flywheel and I can move it and watch the ring gear move slightly either direction, so i am assuming that the pistons are not seized.
The prop spins freely in neutral and shifts into forward and reverse easily.

Any ideas what to check next.
Thank you for any information.
 
Hi,
Judging from your username, hondanewbe, it looks like you just bought this outboard? Used?

Was this outboard running ok before this occurred?

Giving as much info as possible could help someone help you.

This doesn't sound good at all.

As a matter of fact, it sounds suspiciously like you may have a piston contacting a valve.

The ONLY way I know to prove or disprove that would be to back off all the rockers and then ensure all valves are completely closed.
Although a borescope might work...if you're got one.

Bent or stuck valve(s) would then be fairly easy to identify.

The most important thing here is that you don't force it to turn but it sounds as if you already know that and are being careful. Good going there!

This might be a repairable condition if no additional damage is done while testing.
 
Thank you for the replies.
I have had this 2016 honda 90 outboard since late 2017 with 60hrs on it.It has around 260 hrs now.
There was a sound that was like a high pitch rattle that happened a couple of times when I first started it,that would go away quickly after 30 seconds or so.It would still run great.

The last time I used last week it ran fine, I live on a small island and use it on a 17 ft hardtop aluminum boat to commute about 12 min crossing a strait,where I moor it and get supplies.Then this time I went to use it, it just went clunk.
Like I said earlier it was getting harder to start ,meaning turning over slower,which I took to being a older battery.
I am wondering if the timing chain has skipped.
is a borescope a camera to look down the cylinder through the spark plug hole?
I have done quite a few clunks with the starter so it may have marked the piston if it is a valve.I have not reefed to hard with the fly wheel and a wrench.When I do try to move it with a wrench it moves slightly but no sound is made and it will not move much back or forward maybe half and inch when i watch the ring gear.
I was trying to see if I can trouble shoot it here on the island rather than towing it to find a repair shop.
I have a pretty good knowledge of engines not outboards.I have a honda ridgeline i did a timing belt change myself so I can navigate somewhat.

Would I need any special tools to get to the valves and back them off?
Any easy way to see if the timing has jumped?
Thanks for the input
 
Yes, a borescope is an in cylinder camera/inspection device.

I don't know this engine so keep that in mind.
Having said that, I don't think there's any special tools needed to back off the rockers. See attached parts illustration link below.


I thought racerone's suggestion of dropping the gear case was a very good idea. Probably still is to eliminate an issue with the main shaft or transmission.

But, after reading that you heard that rattling on start up, it really makes me think that she probably has an engine problem. This has a timing chain and that rattling could have very well been the chain, chain guides or chain tensioner having a problem. Items 5, 10, 11 and 12 in the link above. It's a "classic" sound for timing chain equipped engines that are developing issues in that area.

It might even be more productive for you to remove the chain case (link below) and have a look rather than back off the rockers. I don't know.
And I don't know how difficult removing the case will be. Item 13 in the link below is the crankshaft oil seal so I think it could be fairly involved. Maybe including removing the alternator.


I wouldn't try doing too much here without better information than I can provide you.

You can order the approved shop manual at the link below.

Honda Marine | Shop Manuals Publications | Honda Power Products Support Publications

publications.powerequipment.honda.com publications.powerequipment.honda.com

I hope you fix it!
 
Think positive!

It seems you've gotten a bit unlucky.

BUT, the fact that it went "clunk" when you tried starting it INSTEAD of while bombing along at 5,000 rpm COULD mean that you got a very LUCKY break with minimal damage and cost.

I, for one, hope so. I will be thinking happy thoughts for you and looking forward to you reporting back with your SUCCESS!

Good luck.
 
I want to thank you for your helpful advice.I took racerone's suggestion and removed the leg.It was really stuck,4hrs of using wedges pry bars and penetrating oil,some well applied force and a lot of patience it finally came apart!!
I checked the motor and it now spins freely!
I will have to investigate further,though it looks like some wear is visible on the driveshaft possibly where it goes through a bushing in the upper case.
Thanks again and racerone for steering me to the gear case.
 
Well, this is a case where I'm HAPPY that I was WRONG! ;>)

racerone's an old hand at this stuff and this proves he knows his stuff.

Good luck with the repair and keep us posted. Looking forward to reading about your FIX.
 
I'd be anxious to see what comes out of the lower unit when you pull the drain plug. Watery 'milkshake" looking oil, metal shavings and chunks, or possibly nothing at all. Keep us informed on what you find.
 
Oil is good...drive shaft moves freely.
It was the driveshaft seized onto a bushing in what is called a separation extension, a short section above the lower unit which has a bushing in it to help support the driveshaft,I imagine because it is a extra long shaft motor.
Corrosion has destroyed the bushing seat so I am looking for a used separation extension, part no.40202-ZY9-H50ZA.I have looked online so far no luck
My motor is a 2016 90hp model BBCJ serial no.1301502
Anyone that can steer me to a place I can buy used Honda outboard parts I would be grateful!
A new separation extension is over 1300. a sixth of a new engine!!
As another thought if I can not find a used one I will get a new bushing install the extension, slide the bushing over the driveshaft, seat it in the extension, and fill up the void with JB weld where the corrosion has eaten away the metal.

Also when I was removing the lower unit from the head, a piece of bunched up rubber that could have been part of a seal was on the driveshaft.
I am wondering if there is a seal somewhere above the extension?I can't find a part in the parts catalogue on Honda's website for this motor.
Thanks for any help
 
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