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2003 Honda BF200 random engine light, buzzer, and missfire (with videos)

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Bustedknuckle

Member
I have the 03 BF200, all plugs have been replaced, I can't get the motor to throw a code or buzzer while on a garden hose. On water when the light blinks every 5 seconds along with a buzzer I just shut it down and start it back up and no lights or buzzer. However, the code is still in the eeprom. The motor runs strong otherwise, when it doesn't have the MIL light you can never tell something is wrong with it.

1) BIG CONCERN- I have had a hard time getting the bottom two cylinders plugs out and the port side bottom cylinder plug had rust looking particles on it. I cant get a compression tester or a leak down tester to thread into the head of the bottom two cylinders (port side is the worst) so I can't get a compression test on the bottom cylinders.
http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f23/spark-plug-reading-586090/

before replacing plugs I got this MIL light code. What code is this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OtbZRSS1KM

2)I replaced the plugs but after running for 15 mins or so I got the following engine light. one flash every 5 seconds. Is this a 02 sensor code for engine missfire?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asM3MJUQOnk

*replacing the plugs did seem to help but code still came up.

3) Don't know if this is related but it takes me two times of cranking the motor over to fire up from being cold. Also sometimes the motor seems to be missfiring trying to get to an idle. This only happens sometimes. Hot restarting is no problem.

4) *BIG CONCERN* Looking at motor, the left exhaust port (Port side) has significantly less pressure coming out of the port at idle compared to the right side (starboard)

What I believe started this is, last year before I was getting this MIL light, I was out in the gulf in 4-6 ft seas and while anchoring I got the anchor line caught around the lower unit next to prop, so I was then taking in water from the stern as waves were coming from that direction already and I was basically getting sling shotted to the wreck I was anchored on. Cut the anchor line , scary experience. However, Since that I have been having this MIL light issue.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time!
 
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Not sure the answer to all of your questions, but I can tell you that the lower two plugs are easy to get at with the lower cowling moved. There are maybe twelve 10mm (maybe 8mm) bolts holding the lower cowling in place. Have you tried putting anti sieze on the plug threads and running them in carefully. Might help lubricate things. Do the compression test. I replaced my head gasket three years ago due to a leak. Now I am replacing the block due to rot issues. Everything is on that lower port side.
 
The MIL code is for O2 sensor. it could be misfire or O2 sensor failure, try to reset by pressing kill switch 5 times, and run the engine to see whether it comes again, if your engine is running fine at high rpm no power loss, it is only faulty sensor ,replace it and reset the ECU.

spark plugs seems to be some water went and got rusted. its better to put anti sieze geese on the thread,

wajira
 
I have reset the light after I replaced the plugs. I had taken my boat on the river this last weekend and again after 15 mins I throw the same engine light and buzzer. So the O2 sensor light is becoming more consistent with operating it for around 15 mins before it kicks on.

I'm thinking if the O2 sensor is taking 15 mins before going off then O2 sensor is doing its job and I shouldn't blow money on it yet, but please tell me if I'm wrong.

This may help, this may help I installed a gas sniffing sensor (mounted on the inside of the cowling) that comes with a warning system that's mounted at my helm. After 5-10 mins of operating it starts to faintly go off and then after about 15 mins becomes a more solid alarm. But then I kick the motor off then back on and the alarm is gone again.

I'm trying to give all the info I know as I really would like to figure this out. Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
Well, I watched the first video and I saw a short blink followed by a long blink on the MIL light, which is rather confusing.

The second video definitely shows a fault code #1. That could be a bad plug, a bad coil, low fuel pressure, OR (MOST LIKELY) a faulty HO2 sensor.

Looking at the pictures on your other post with the rusted plug ends, and reading your write up, especially the part about the stuck anchor in high following seas, it looks like you have ingested water into your lower cylinders because you have the original exhaust tubes. That will typically blow the HO2 sensor, also. All of that is addressed in Honda Service Bulletin # 56. Send me an e-mail at [email protected] and I will send you a copy of the bulletin. That service bulletin describes the indicators in detail and gives the procedures for exchanging the exhaust tubes to the newly designed ones, and gives you the part numbers that you need. It is all available in a kit on boats.net. I think the kit costs about $110. But the labor is rather intense. Several folks on this forum have done the job themselves.

You first need to do a compression test to make sure that those two lower cylinders have good compression and that there is no more than a 10% difference between the compression of the lowest and highest cylinders. If they do, then a new (and very pricey) HO2 sensor would likely solve the problem with the alarm and fault code #1, in the short run. In the long run, you need change out the exhaust tubes IAW Service Bulletin #56.

You definitely need to remove the lower cowling to properly get to the plug for cylinder #6 and run your compression test. You should pull the plugs every 100 hours or annually, whichever comes first, and put a light coat of high temp grease on the plug threads.

With some luck, you will still have good compression and the new HO2 sensor will solve the problem for a while.

BTW - SB #56 cautions against short cranks of the motor on startup. That can also suck water into the lower cylinders from the old style exhaust tubes under certain circumstances. The solution is one long crank until it fires up.
 
Thanks so much chawk, that helps me alot. I'm learning more on how different marine engines like to be handled compared to Automobiles. Examples: no anti size on plugs, short cranks long, and so on. Ironically I have the same block as an Honda odessey. Not being sarcastic, this is a great learning experience for me.

I have a additional question. What can I do to clean up the threads so I can get a compression tester to thread into the head of the 5 and 6 cylinder. I couldn't get readings because I couldn't get the compression test adapter to thread in enough. And the adapter would get stuck in the 6th cylinder threads so I had to use lock tite to get my compression tester adapter out.
Also the does the difference in pressure coming out of the exhaust port at idle indicate a leak of the exhaust tube.
 
Yep, the basic block and internals are a Honda J35A3 - J35A6. At least that's what it matches up to.

I'm not sure what you mean by not being able to get the adapter for the compression gauge into the plug hole. If the plug went in there, the adapter should also. Are you saying that the adapter is too loose in the plug hole? Are you sure you have the correct adapter?

Cleaning up the threads on a plug hole can be tedious and potentially damaging, but it can be done. Here is a procedure I've used on small engines but I've never done this on an outboard. You need to find a thread cutter (tap) that is exactly the same thread as the plug. Use a thread pitch gauge or a spare spark plug to confirm the pitch and diameter. Then, put the cylinder head at TDC, and work the threader in and out until it goes in all the way smoothly. Use a light oil on each cut. You are dealing with cast aluminum, so slow and easy are the watch words. Be careful not to score the top of the piston. Then vacuum out the cylinder as best you can with a long thin extension (a small plastic hose will work) that will go all of the way in the plug hole and all inside the cylinder top, connected to a Shop Vac. Spend a lot of time on this cleanup to get as much debris as possible out of the cylinder.

The alternative is to drill it out and use a heli-coil that matches the plug threads. Use the same procedure to clean out the top of the cylinder.

I'm not sure about the difference in pressure coming from the exhaust tubes. If you suspect that an exhaust tube is broken or has come loose, then you should be getting some exhaust fumes out of the tube. That should be evident with the cover off and the engine running.

Just to be clear, I am not a Honda Tech. I'm just an owner who is a long way from any dealer and have taken a big interest in keeping my big expensive 225 in top running order.

I will respond to your e-mail later today.
 
I forgot to add my motor has 440 hours.

My compression tester with the flexible hose will screw down about 3-4 turns and wont turn anymore however there is still room to get more threads in. Therefore I cant get a good reading on the cylinder. I think because I cant get enough threads in, the compression is going past the threads and not giving me a reading.

I think theres a crack or hole in the exhaust causing the difference in exhaust pressure out, but no wired sounds from exhaust area.



chawk_man said:
Yep, the basic block and internals are a Honda J35A3 - J35A6. At least that's what it matches up to.

I'm not sure what you mean by not being able to get the adapter for the compression gauge into the plug hole. If the plug went in there, the adapter should also. Are you saying that the adapter is too loose in the plug hole? Are you sure you have the correct adapter?

Cleaning up the threads on a plug hole can be tedious and potentially damaging, but it can be done. Here is a procedure I've used on small engines but I've never done this on an outboard. You need to find a thread cutter (tap) that is exactly the same thread as the plug. Use a thread pitch gauge or a spare spark plug to confirm the pitch and diameter. Then, put the cylinder head at TDC, and work the threader in and out until it goes in all the way smoothly. Use a light oil on each cut. You are dealing with cast aluminum, so slow and easy are the watch words. Be careful not to score the top of the piston. Then vacuum out the cylinder as best you can with a long thin extension (a small plastic hose will work) that will go all of the way in the plug hole and all inside the cylinder top, connected to a Shop Vac. Spend a lot of time on this cleanup to get as much debris as possible out of the cylinder.

The alternative is to drill it out and use a heli-coil that matches the plug threads. Use the same procedure to clean out the top of the cylinder.

I'm not sure about the difference in pressure coming from the exhaust tubes. If you suspect that an exhaust tube is broken or has come loose, then you should be getting some exhaust fumes out of the tube. That should be evident with the cover off and the engine running.

Just to be clear, I am not a Honda Tech. I'm just an owner who is a long way from any dealer and have taken a big interest in keeping my big expensive 225 in top running order.

I will respond to your e-mail later today.
Click to expand...
 
Are you saying that the compression tester fits some of the plug holes but not others, or is this a problem for all of the cylinders? If all, then you have the wrong adapter. If it's just #6 and/or #5, then you need to figure out why. I think is very important to get a good compression test to determine whether those two lower cylinders are in good shape before you go much further. As I said before, if compression is good, then a new HO2 sensor should fix the problem for a while.

If you think you have a leak in the exhaust tubes, then it would seem that the wise thing would be to go ahead and change out the exhaust tubes for the re-designed ones.
 
BustedKnuckle,

I am in the exact same position as you right now. I brought my 2003 225 Honda in because it was surging at idle and would stall when shifting in to idle. The shop I brought it to cleaned throttle body, the VST, some other things, replaced #6 coil because I must have broken it somehow changing the plugs and they also said they replaced the heat O2 sensor. When I brought the motor in, there were no codes. The shop's computer wouldn't read the motor at first they said and eventually it did (not sure how all this went down). Anyway, that's how they knew the HO2S was bad. I got my boat back and it ran great! After 15 minutes like you said though, it threw that alarm that you are talking about. I checked for codes myself and it was the first code listed in the manual which could be stale fuel, misfire in plug 4, 5, or 6 or it could be a faulty HO2S. I brought it back to them and they eventually said they don't know what to do with the motor and they claimed that HONDA did not now either. I guess they called Honda. I am going to perform the SB 56 and get another new HO2S and my guess is that will fix my alarm problem. Boat runs great though even with the alarm.

My guess is that my motor has had this code for a while but it wasn't throwing the alarm for some reason. The shop couldn't read the motor at first either so there was some sort of glitch. I am speculating that whatever they did to finally read the motor somehow fixed the glitch and let the motor sound the alarm for the code. I'm no mechanic so I might just be talking out of my butt.
 
I find that interesting how we have full power but throw the same codes after 15 mins. I have more experience on the automobile side and usually a misfire isnt going to wait 15 mins to come up. And a bad 02 sensor will usually throw a code right away. I wonder who knows what could cause the consistent time delay in code being thrown. But I would ask your shop for a compression reading then if good go with the sb56 update. Thanks for the info buddy.
 
With mine, the first alarm comes on at about 15 minutes. If I shut down and start right back up, the alarm comes on right away. If I shut down and let the motor cool down for a little while, the alarm will not come on right away but takes a few minutes before it comes on. My initial thought is that the alarm is correlated to the engine temperature.
 
Have either of you folks tested the fuel pressure? There is an access bolt at the top of the high pressure fuel filter cover. Pressure should be between 41 - 49 PSI. Low fuel pressure can cause the ECM to throw an alarm and a "1" code. If fuel pressure is below 41 PSI, first change the high pressure fuel filter. If that doesn't work, then there are a lot of other items in the fuel line that should be checked.
 
dagostino82 said:
With mine, the first alarm comes on at about 15 minutes. If I shut down and start right back up, the alarm comes on right away. If I shut down and let the motor cool down for a little while, the alarm will not come on right away but takes a few minutes before it comes on. My initial thought is that the alarm is correlated to the engine temperature.
Click to expand...

The engine temperature light would be more of a faster beep and be solid light if I remember right(don't have my manual on me right now) I would bring the shortening plug aka service connector on board and see if its the same light as the code 1 light.
 
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chawk_man said:
Have either of you folks tested the fuel pressure? There is an access bolt at the top of the high pressure fuel filter cover. Pressure should be between 41 - 49 PSI. Low fuel pressure can cause the ECM to throw an alarm and a "1" code. If fuel pressure is below 41 PSI, first change the high pressure fuel filter. If that doesn't work, then there are a lot of other items in the fuel line that should be checked.
Click to expand...

I have tested the fuel pressure previously and seemed good. All filters including fuel/water separator have been recently replaced. That's 41-49 PSI at idle correct?

Do you happen to know where is an accessible vacuum port and/or line so I can throw a gauge on to check the vacuum? I tried looking and couldn't find a source. Since I can't get my leakdown or compression tester on my 5 and 6 cylinders I would like to see what the vacuum pulls up.
 
Yes, 41-48 psi at idle IN GEAR. Remove the prop first.

There is a vacuum line that goes into the fuel pressure regulator which is easily accessible. If I recall correctly, it's mounted on the back of the engine to the right. It's a round "canister" that's pretty obvious.
 
chawk_man said:
Yes, 41-48 psi at idle IN GEAR. Remove the prop first.

There is a vacuum line that goes into the fuel pressure regulator which is easily accessible. If I recall correctly, it's mounted on the back of the engine to the right. It's a round "canister" that's pretty obvious.
Click to expand...

I was hoping for a little bit easier than behind the intake manifold ;) I did more research on the O2 sensor testing (rereading your first post on here saying to replace that first) I'm going to pull the sensor and test it and report back what I find out. After what I have read that the 02 sensor needs to get to 600 degrees I can see in the manual they want the motor to run at 3k for 5 mins prior to reading.

My theory is it kinda makes sense that 1000-1500k rpms would take the motor round 15 mins to heat up to 600 degrees. I hope this is all it is.

Thanks for your response and dedication to help me.
 
ok so I did the same test on a known good o2 sensor, the voltage jumps up and stabilizes at .5 or .6 volts. this confirms even more that the heater has failed to heat up to a normal operating voltage. But the resistence test was the same for both O2 sensor heaters.

Anyone know if I can use the Honda Odyssey O2 sensor (they look very similar) instead of the bf200 O2 sensor? Theres a $150 difference so wondering whats the difference?
 
That's a good question and I don't know the answer. However I think it would be high risk to do so. The 225's ecu is very different than that in an auto and you would need to establish that the Prelude sensor was giving out the exact same signal as the 225 sensor under the exact same operating conditions. That would require a controlled experiment using a really good oscilloscope.
 
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