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1967 MC1 ignition issues.

T

txgalzdah

Regular Contributor
1967 Mur-Tex with 120hp '66 MC-1, '65 2.5l 4cyl. Motor is 12v neg ground. Installed Pertronix Ignitor and Flamethrower coil #40511.
We have 7.9 hours on the motor. Went to the river last weekend and ran for about an hour. Motor died and refused to start after all the initial checks for bad connections and such. Got a tow back to the ramp.
Boat set for three days. Set it on the muffs and it started right up. Ran for about 45 - 60 seconds then stopped. Waited a couple of minutes with the ignition off. Motor starts right up but only runs for about 15 seconds then quits. After a couple of tries to get it started I covered it up.
This morning I got her on the muffs and got my multi meter ready. Starts right up and I checked the voltage to the (+) side of the coil. Getting steady 12 volts. Runs for about a minute then quits.
I disconneted all the wires and checked the coil. There is less than 1ohm resistance across the posts (primary side?) and there is 8.5k ohms from negative post to center post (secondary side?). According to my reseach on the web I should see 10 - 11k ohms testing the secondary side but I have no idea other than what I researched.
From my experience the Ignitor module either works or it doesnt. So I assume it is working since the motor will start. As for the coil I have my doubts.
Two things have changed. The transistor voltage regulator fried. Determined, with help from this site, that the alternator has VR built in. Rewired to remove old TVR and ran on the muffs and in the river for a total of 1.5 hours. The other issue was an incident where we hit a chuck hole in the freeway pulling her back from the lake a couple of weeks ago. Didn't blow a tire or knock her off the trailer. The hole in the road was large enough that everything in the truck and boat was relocated. Kinda bone jarring but found no external damage. Could this bone jarring hit have damaged the coil?
Anyway, I am stumped on what to check next. I guess I could beg/borrow or buy another coil and test that first. Any other suggestions on what to test before throwing bucks at her would be appreciated.
I have checked my fuel system, the shift interupter, the neutral start switch, the dead man switch, all the wiring for a short and all the connections are tight/clean. When she dies it is like you pulled the coil wire. Also replaced coil and plug wires with my backup set.
Regards,
TxGalz Dah
 
after it runs and then quits, is there fuel in the carb?

Your coil readings are within tolerance as I'm sure your ohm meter has been calibrated to a NIST tracable reference lately (has it?). Are they consistent hot and cold (before problem occurs as well as after)?

An inductive timing light is a quick way to assess if the ignition is still working when the engine quits.

Did you change the ignition switch and harness when you did the overhaul (can't remember)?
 
Ya'll,
After the motor stops dead, yes there is fuel in the carb. I opened the choke, hit the throttle and it squirts fuel in the body. My ohm meter is only a year or so old but keep in mind it is a very cheap unit. As far as heat on the coil I did not check it when testing. On the river I noted that the coil was so hot I did not want to keep my hand on it. Looking back on yesterday's grits I would mark that down as an item of concern.
Put the timing light on number one after it fails to run. In my experience if the motor won't fire then I won't see the light. I am at a loss for why I would do this. Please explain a little further on what I would be looking for in the timing light test. I will do it but I just don't know what I am looking for.
The ignition switch is new. The harness is new. I have checked all the connections on both the bow and stern. Took way too long but I was sure I had a loose connection. Not the case as I found out but it is good to know we did a good job on the wiring.
Hose House seven has granted boatswana time tomorrow so I will take the Tach wire off the coil when testing. This here suggestion parts my hair. The tach has never read correctly. When at WOT the tach reads no more that 1600 rpm. At WOT the speedo shows 34 mph. Considering the weight, prop, hp and everything else we bout $#!+ our pants with that speed. The tach is on our post break-in work list. I will disconnect it for tomorrows tests.
This is good information to start working this down. Thanks for the assist. After I sign off I am pouring a Meyers Dark Rum and hoisting it to you good folks.
Best Regards,
TxGalz Dah
 
I'd throw that "Flamethrower" stupidity as far across the lake as possible...

searching the web for specs...trying to figure if it needs a ballast restor or not is like pulling teeth (my own teeth). I can find 5 sites that say Yes, and 5 sites that say No

I'd just buy a stock coil, and reconnect the ballast resistor the way Merc did it originally.

you know, a coil is a pretty simple device....a very simple transformer with no moving parts. It has not evolved or changed since the 1800's. These companies that buy ultra-cheap wire and wind it into some spicy, flashy painted up can and call it "SparkOSaurus Rex IV" or whatever.... then sell it at a 300% markup...piss me off
 
Would you do me a favor and look on the block starboard side, low and write down and post the year of the block please. Or pull the valve cover and post the date that is stamped there. Should also have what hp the motor is.

What happened to the old dist, and coil. And if i remember right they used a resister wire.

My hunch and is only a hunch at this moment, is that ain't a 65' motor cause they had 80 hp- 100 hp in 65' not 120 hp.

And if my hunch is right you have the exact motor i had in my boat for 5 years.

Ok my call put back in the old dist, cause i know the one in there now ain't original am i right ?

You want the old style round coil, it is filled with oil. Make sure all the connections are good to the coil, from the battery. That means the solenoid is good.

For now if you want run a switch to the helm, this switch will operate the jumper wire to the coil straight from the battery.Still following me ?

So you want to start the boat you first flip the jumper wire switch and then crank the motor and run it.

If it runs good no cutting out etc. then you have narrowed down the problem. Ya'all still following me ?

See if you got it running doing what i just posted, then post back and i with all the other better mechanical minds here will talk you thru to narrow down the exact problem.

Or you can jerk around all summer and next summer we will be right back here with your problem not solved.
 
Chief,
Thanks for piping in. Today's attempt at debugging my ignition issue resulted in no spark at all. I used your recommendation of jumping the (+) post from the batt to the (+) post on the coil. No change. I used hystat's recommendation of putting the timing light on while cranking. No light on any of the spark plug wires. To me that means the Ignitor is toast. Keep in mind the old transistor voltage regulator fried so that could have given the Ignitor module a heart attack.
As for the distributor, it is the original with the Pertronix pickup and their plate. The boat had set in the weather for 16 years with a cracked cap. The points plate was scrap so the decision was made to go with the Ignitor. The two resistors were nothing more than ceramic blocks with rust. So according to the info I gleaned from the net, the Flame thrower coil with 3 ohms built in, was installed.
The numbers on the block, stbd low, are 3849449 / C 21 6 / C ON 2. The s/n by the distr face is F0405IAD and the Kiekhaefer tag is 2056267. The block is a 153ci bored 30 over. Least ways that was the kit I ordered and installed. The motor and I/O both had decals saying 120hp so that is what I based that info on. There were three owners before I bought it. No telling what was done to it.
And for my 2CW, ya'll be the greatest. I caint say thanks enough.
Regards,
TxGalz Dah
 
Chiefalen,
You requested numbers off the block. Was there anything past the casting numbers that you might have any information on? I called Mercruiser today. The tech must have had a bad day recently or MC OK put the work down not to help folks with the old stuff. I base that opinion on a call I made over a year ago when the tech fussed through some old paper and gave me some info on the original tag number. Maybe he found a better job.
Anyhow, would you happen to have in tag info?
Best Regards,
TxGalz Dah
 
Guyjg,
Aye aye. Will do. Note in previous post recommendation was to disconnect tach. I did that and there is no spark coming out of the distr cap. I even grew some hair on my berries and held onto one of the plug wires while my mate turned the motor over. Nothing other than the brain damage that previously existed.
Chief, thanks for the link. Last name not Birr by chance?
Regards,
TxGalz Dah
Caint wait to get on the river.
 
UPDATE: Hystat, Yallsums,
I used the 40 some odd year old Transistor Voltage Regulato (TVR) in the rebuild. It tested good but I should have known better. It fried big time. The upgraded alternator has a voltage regulator build in. This little fact of great importance, I, well I just put my head in a very dark place that involves bending over. Nuf said.
Pulled the Pertonix coil and Ignitor. Found a points plate, and installed it with standard points/condensor parts. Found two 1.4 ohm ballast resistors and have them installed in series. This is the ignition (on) circuit to the stock coil. Per instructions.
TexalGal is at the circa 1967 setup. Over several runs I have clocked 1.7 hours of runtime on the muffs. It is funny how on Sunday morning at 5:30AM there is a bunch load of water pressure from the local service. Ran at 1200 rpm on the muffs for 20 minutes. All press/temps in spec. All neighbors pretty pissed. Once in a life time! Plugs, ditr cap & rotor, point face and plug wires look good, are good. Schtuf is wearing out from the fixin.
On Saturday Aug 8 we are putting in. We will do our testing and have a tracer boat just in case we break. The river has traffic. Don't want to be a stistic.
Now, some info that I had pumped my way since the tow. This information is hear say, said straight to my face and shared with me from a business owner. So don't blow a bilge gasket or take it out on me. I am just sharin. And please don't call me Sharon.
I am getting long winded, I'll try to condense. The electronic parts, specifically the Pertonix products, as installed by usums, "are correct in the right application." This was an email response. My application is a forty three old Mercruser rebuild. I got no further with that.
I was told, "that s#!+ ain't worth nothin. Been doin dis fifty yer an id doan hol up. Merc kil da spark. Dat kil id all, dat al I got." I swear on the book. That is how it came out of his mouth. God bless Mosses Green.
My local and new best friend simply said, "I dont't know how many of those I have taken out. They just don't hold up to the circuit being grounded on those older units."
Folks, I have gone back to the old standard fixins. This weekend we are on the water. I am going to run it hard/slow/in between. I am hopin my face hurts from smiling so hard. I will post on Monday.

Work hard, Play hard.
Best Regards,
TxGalz Dah + Crew.
 
There is nothing wrong with a electronic conversion from points to solid state parts.

If the boat owner has other electrical issues that cause problems then the pertronics is not the issue.......

It sounds to me that you installed a self voltage regulated altenator with a oold mechanical one???

No offense but please try to type in standard english.............great deal of brain cells died trying to understand what you are trying to say...............lol
 
The pertronix flamethrower coil does not need a ballast resistor! You should have < 3ohms reading from your coil as required by Pertronix. I've had two pertronix systems on 2 boats in the past 6 years and never had a problem. I have heard of a guy that had a defective unit but Pertronix replaced it over night air no questions asked. Usually a very dependable unit.

Something tells me it's a fuel problem. Is your float sticking? That wouldn't show up through the accelorator pump. Who did the carb rebuild?
 
your voltage regulator failure cause the coil/ignitor to get fried also . nothing suprising to me. thats why I dumped the mercrusier water cooled regulator for a 3 wire alternator with the built in regulator exactly like your automoble has...

then with your other electrical equiptment on board its just not worth the risk of getting all the other electronics damaged from overvoltage/spikes etc...

pertronix does clearly mention all about the proper installation.especially the coil resistance and how to connect with regard to the ballast coil resistor.

with voltages over 16volts from the voltage regulator this does damage all of these items . even the points get damaged ..
 
Chieflan, thanks, just a quesion. You never know.
KGhost picked it up. We did have electrical problems and that is the key suspect for our current issue. JCat picked up on it too. By and by, the ignition is back to points, condenser and new coil. Ran great on the muffs. We are on the river Saturday for testing, with a backup barge.
As for the language. I do apologize to you and yours. I am a Southern man and I do speak a language of the land,
I will try to speak your langurage the best I can. But bubba, I am who I am. You are who you are. Boating is good and that is where we meet. May your waters be calm.

God bless your litl p pikn hart!!
Thats suthern for best wishes, or sumpin lak dat.
TxGalz Dah
 
TxGalz

Not complaining about how you speak........Just how you type.........LOL

I had no idea that the southern drawl could be spelled............LOL
 
It's a mind set. And I had some Turkey while I was typing. I tend to get long winded.
I'm off today. Guess what I going out to do. Boatswana baby.
Gearing up to go boatin. I'm smilin like a possum eatn a sweet tater! :)
Have good weekend.
TxGalz Dah
 
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