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1973 chrysler 85hp outboard no spark to any cylinder!

T

tommy2toes

Member
so i started it when i got it home the first day, it run so nice i was very happy! then i did a few upkeep things oiled the lower unit with new oil and changed the water pump. then a day or so wen by i had a tarp over it but it rained. anyway it wont start i get no spark at all. i tested the coil it seems to be good i tested the signal wire seems good. i get 12.79v then turn flywheel and drops to 2.7v i think it said. and the regulator im having trouble figuring it out i don't get anything from resistance when i unhook it completely? here i did a small video so i could show what i do get and so you all can see the magnapower unit and mine only has points no condenser and no electric eye or sensor just old fashioned points. i need spark! heres the video to watch :cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmCCLvA29gE&t=97s
 
No kill switches on something that old.

Now that I know you have the Magnapower ignition, I can give a better answer.

The "it looks new" means nothing with an outboard.
The dirt and grime doesn't collect because there's no dust on the water.


Did you check the resistance on the stator?
A stator can go bad in 1 second or less.


  1. Disconnect the kill wires from the CD and connect a DC voltmeter between the kill wires and engine ground, turn the ignition switch on and off several times. If, at any time, you see voltage appearing on the meter, there is a problem in the harness or ignition switch. At NO TIME SHOULD YOU SEE BATTERY VOLTAGE ON A KILL CIRCUIT.
  2. Check the flywheel for a broken or loose magnet.
  3. Check for broken wires and terminals, especially inside the plastic plug-in connectors. We recommend that you remove the pins from the connectors and visually inspect them.
  4. Visually inspect stator for burned or discolored areas. If found, replace the stator. If the areas are on the battery charge windings, it indicated a possible problem with the rectifier.
NO FIRE ON ANY CYLINDER:

  1. Disconnect all kill wires AT THE PACK.
  2. Check for broken or bare wires on the unit, stator and trigger.
  3. Measure DVA voltage of the stator between the output wire sets. With everything connected, reading should be approximately 180 volts or more. Resistance readings between the stator wire sets ranges from 680— 800 ohms.
  4. Disconnect the rectifier. If the engine fires, replace the rectifier.
. Connect a spark gap tester to the high tension lead coming from the ignition coil and set it to approximately 7/16". If it fires when you crank the engine over, there is a problem in the distributor cap, rotor button or spark plug wires. 2. Check voltage present on the blue wire at cranking. It MUST be at least 9½ volts. If not, the problem is in the harness, key switch, starter or battery. 3. Connect a DC voltmeter to the white/black wire (while it is connected to the distributor) and rotate the engine. There should be some fluctuation in the meter reading. If the reading is high or low, and fails to move up and down, there is definitely a problem inside the distributor. 4. Connect a DC voltmeter to the blue wire, then disconnect the white/black wire and with the key switch turned on, strike the white/black wire against engine ground. The unit should fire each time. If it does, then the CD unit is usually good and the points (or sensor) require checking. If the CD module fails to fire with this test, verify that the voltage on the blue wire is remaining above 11 volts. If the voltage is good then the CD module is likely bad. 5. Check DVA voltage on the gray wire going to the coil, it should be approximately 200 volts at cranking. If the voltage is right, replace the coil with another coil and retest. A coil that is shorted internally will give a low reading. In this case replace the coil and retry.



 
Jerryjerry05 said:
No kill switches on something that old.

Now that I know you have the Magnapower ignition, I can give a better answer.

The "it looks new" means nothing with an outboard.
The dirt and grime doesn't collect because there's no dust on the water.


Did you check the resistance on the stator?
A stator can go bad in 1 second or less.


  1. Disconnect the kill wires from the CD and connect a DC voltmeter between the kill wires and engine ground, turn the ignition switch on and off several times. If, at any time, you see voltage appearing on the meter, there is a problem in the harness or ignition switch. At NO TIME SHOULD YOU SEE BATTERY VOLTAGE ON A KILL CIRCUIT.
  2. Check the flywheel for a broken or loose magnet.
  3. Check for broken wires and terminals, especially inside the plastic plug-in connectors. We recommend that you remove the pins from the connectors and visually inspect them.
  4. Visually inspect stator for burned or discolored areas. If found, replace the stator. If the areas are on the battery charge windings, it indicated a possible problem with the rectifier.
NO FIRE ON ANY CYLINDER:

  1. Disconnect all kill wires AT THE PACK.
  2. Check for broken or bare wires on the unit, stator and trigger.
  3. Measure DVA voltage of the stator between the output wire sets. With everything connected, reading should be approximately 180 volts or more. Resistance readings between the stator wire sets ranges from 680— 800 ohms.
  4. Disconnect the rectifier. If the engine fires, replace the rectifier.
. Connect a spark gap tester to the high tension lead coming from the ignition coil and set it to approximately 7/16". If it fires when you crank the engine over, there is a problem in the distributor cap, rotor button or spark plug wires. 2. Check voltage present on the blue wire at cranking. It MUST be at least 9½ volts. If not, the problem is in the harness, key switch, starter or battery. 3. Connect a DC voltmeter to the white/black wire (while it is connected to the distributor) and rotate the engine. There should be some fluctuation in the meter reading. If the reading is high or low, and fails to move up and down, there is definitely a problem inside the distributor. 4. Connect a DC voltmeter to the blue wire, then disconnect the white/black wire and with the key switch turned on, strike the white/black wire against engine ground. The unit should fire each time. If it does, then the CD unit is usually good and the points (or sensor) require checking. If the CD module fails to fire with this test, verify that the voltage on the blue wire is remaining above 11 volts. If the voltage is good then the CD module is likely bad. 5. Check DVA voltage on the gray wire going to the coil, it should be approximately 200 volts at cranking. If the voltage is right, replace the coil with another coil and retest. A coil that is shorted internally will give a low reading. In this case replace the coil and retry.



Click to expand...
so i did the tests and stator reads good rectifier reads good plug wires good coil tests good signal wire is giving 13v but the test of turning the key on unhook the black/white wire to the distributor and strike it on ground it should spark. it does not , so even though it reads a reading dont mean its good i guess? im going to buy the cdi and so should i go back to original oem or upgrade to multispark streetfire?
 
Jerryjerry05 said:
I don't think you can get the OEM ??
817855A1 is the part #
Put that in e-bay and they show new and old.
Click to expand...

i meant should i go with the marine replacement like this https://www.ebay.com/itm/232810767612
or should i go to a mulitisaprk streetfire like this https://www.msdperformance.com/brands/street_fire/products/ignitions/street_fire_cd_ignition/
i hate to have it go out again but either one is new components and upgrades compared to 1973 lol. i guess im asking what would you do jerry?
 
hey jerry also i did my stator test and it showed 1.00 to 1.1 ohms . when i asked a few others used for sale stators on ebay they showed .9 to 1.0 and another
shows .3 to .8 she says it seems to be .6 mostly. so is my stator good or does it need replaced?
 
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]From Nordin:
You can test the CD module in different ways.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If you disconnect the HT wire that goes from ignition coil to dist.cap and connect the plug right there you isolate the issue to the CD module and ignition coil and you do not need to set the top cyl. in TDC.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If you test with #1 plug out but still connected to the dist.cap HT wire #1 plug, you have to set the top cyl. at TDC because you have to know the rotor in the dist. is pointing at #1 plug.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]And you still do not know if it is an issue in the distr. cap!
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]The carbone pointer pin in the cap can be bad or bad connection to the rotor.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]I do not think there is a problem with the stator. As the stator in this battery driven CD system only charge the battery.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]It has nothing to do with the ignition system primarily. Yes if it does not charge the battery, then the ignition system will stop to work.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If the voltage goes down to 9,5-10V then the system stops to work.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Bets regards
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Niklas
 
Nordin is the expert and I've been passing along his answers.
I asked him to come to this site and answer your questions.

From Nordin

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]You can test the CD module in different ways.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If you disconnect the HT wire that goes from ignition coil to dist.cap and connect the plug right there you isolate the issue to the CD module and ignition coil and you do not need to set the top cyl. in TDC.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If you test with #1 plug out but still connected to the dist.cap HT wire #1 plug, you have to set the top cyl. at TDC because you have to know the rotor in the dist. is pointing at #1 plug.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]And you still do not know if it is an issue in the distr. cap!
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]The carbone pointer pin in the cap can be bad or bad connection to the rotor.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]I do not think there is a problem with the stator. As the stator in this battery driven CD system only charge the battery.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]It has nothing to do with the ignition system primarily. Yes if it does not charge the battery, then the ignition system will stop to work.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If the voltage goes down to 9,5-10V then the system stops to work.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Bets regards
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Niklas
 
tommy2toes if there is no spark when striking the white/black wire to good ground the CD module is bad.
But check first that you have 12VDC at blue wire from keyswitch.

Loose the HT wire that goes from ign.coil to dist.cap at cap. connect sparkplug at HT wire and ground the plug.
Doing it this way you check only the CD module and ign.coil.
If no spark the CD module or coil is bad, most likely it is the module, you can not measure the CD but the coil should have about 0,5-1,5 Ohm prime side and 500-650 Ohm secondary.

If the CD is bad you have four way to go:
1. New OEM CD (I beleave Franz Marine has it in stock) or buy a used one from ebay.
2. Aftermarket CD from CDI Electronics part 115-3301.
3. MSD streetfire box.
4. Convert to regular automotive battery ignition with Points and condenser.

BTW tommy2toes and jerryjerry05, now I am onboard to ts site.
 
Nordin said:
tommy2toes if there is no spark when striking the white/black wire to good ground the CD module is bad.
But check first that you have 12VDC at blue wire from keyswitch.

Loose the HT wire that goes from ign.coil to dist.cap at cap. connect sparkplug at HT wire and ground the plug.
Doing it this way you check only the CD module and ign.coil.
If no spark the CD module or coil is bad, most likely it is the module, you can not measure the CD but the coil should have about 0,5-1,5 Ohm prime side and 500-650 Ohm secondary.

If the CD is bad you have four way to go:
1. New OEM CD (I beleave Franz Marine has it in stock) or buy a used one from ebay.
2. Aftermarket CD from CDI Electronics part 115-3301.
3. MSD streetfire box.
4. Convert to regular automotive battery ignition with Points and condenser.

BTW tommy2toes and jerryjerry05, now I am onboard to ts site.[/QUOTE

well now again i feel i tested it wrong. i pulled the plug number one put it in that plug wire and grounded it i put it at top dead center and stuck the wire on ground no spark so i ordered one it comes with the coil attached so it should work. i hope it does. everything else tested good but the key switch broke so i have one one the way now also, it was partially broken but it was turning it over then the last test i pulled the key out and the guts came out with it. so i unhooked the positive lead to the battery til i get the new switch installed. so i will install the key first and try it just for ****s and giggles then i will install the new cdi and coil. but now this new one says there is no tach output so where do i hook that now or dont i? heres the one i ordered https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ignition-A...rd-Magnapower-35-140HP-1974-1984/232810767612
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
tommy2toes the CD module from CDI Electronics 115-3301 has as you says no tacho wire.
That is the bad thing about that CD module, soo you just leave the tacho wire unhooked.
 
Nordin said:
tommy2toes the CD module from CDI Electronics 115-3301 has as you says no tacho wire.
That is the bad thing about that CD module, soo you just leave the tacho wire unhooked.
Click to expand...
thanks worked great! ran it up the river a bit and took it out to check the gear oil to be safe. glad i did it turned white and was just new so i need a gear seal kit i think. my motor is the chrysler 85hp and the model number says 857he could you help maybe find the right one?
 
Glad you got it up running.
Your motor has the 2 piece gear case and there is a gear case seal kit #1910.
You can order it from Mastertech Marine and other websites too.

Read at the other forum it stops when you put it in gear at idle.
You maybe have to increase the idle speed and open up the air/fuel mix screws at each carb.
Idle speed 700 rpm in gear in water and mix screw 1 1/8 turn out from lightly seated.
 
Nordin said:
Glad you got it up running.
Your motor has the 2 piece gear case and there is a gear case seal kit #1910.
You can order it from Mastertech Marine and other websites too.

Read at the other forum it stops when you put it in gear at idle.
You maybe have to increase the idle speed and open up the air/fuel mix screws at each carb.
Idle speed 700 rpm in gear in water and mix screw 1 1/8 turn out from lightly seated.
Click to expand...

so i did that today i actually had to use oil i couldn't find a air pump so i used the oil fill pump and 2 cycle to check for leaks. well it came back out as predicted but in the wrong place i thought. it came out the water vent intake for the water pump? i didn't know about this seal under the pump i haven't taken it apart but is this seal included in the kit i bought? shown here >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SIERRA...ash=item1a0db6fa3c:g:9q0AAOSwe7BWt-UN&vxp=mtr so now whats the next step? also i do remember a very tiny o'ring that came with the water pump and impeller but i did not see a place for it to go what is it for? i saw another identical in the gear case seal kit i just got?
 
Last edited:
The tiny o-ring is for the pivot pin lcated on the side of the drive.
DO NOT REMOVE!!
The pin keeps the shift linkage in place, if removed you'll need to take the drive apart and re-assemble it.

The pic of the kit: the seal on the far right should be for the drive shaft seal.
Note how it's installed(pics), it can be installed upside down.
Just remove the pump and the stainless plate.
Under that should be the seal.
Be real careful how you take it out.
The metal is soft and can be damaged. It might not reseal if the damage is excessive.
Check the shaft for a wear spot/groove.
If it's deep it might not seal with the new part??

The kits usually can repair a bunch of different pumps, so there might be extra parts in the kit.

Jus
 
Jerryjerry05 said:
The tiny o-ring is for the pivot pin lcated on the side of the drive.
DO NOT REMOVE!!
The pin keeps the shift linkage in place, if removed you'll need to take the drive apart and re-assemble it.

The pic of the kit: the seal on the far right should be for the drive shaft seal.
Note how it's installed(pics), it can be installed upside down.
Just remove the pump and the stainless plate.
Under that should be the seal.
Be real careful how you take it out.
The metal is soft and can be damaged. It might not reseal if the damage is excessive.
Check the shaft for a wear spot/groove.
If it's deep it might not seal with the new part??

The kits usually can repair a bunch of different pumps, so there might be extra parts in the kit.

Jus
Click to expand...


ok sounds good to me i didn't know what the o-ring was for glad now i asked so im leaving that alone. i will remove the water pump and i have a bearing puller coming that should do this job easy for me, i will let you know how well it actually did maybe i will video some steps. my son found it and bought it for me it's on the way i will take a picture of it or get a link from him to show it. seems to me it was made for this job and only costs $15 dollars so not bad to keep your metel from being damaged or gouged up. last is there a certain sealant i should buy to reseal the bearing into place? what would you recommend?
 
Jerryjerry05 said:
I use OMC's gasket sealer.
It's 13$ for a small can but lasts YEARS!!

Google: omc gasket sealing compound
Click to expand...


sound good to me i will get some today. im still waiting for my bearing puller to arrive it should be here by the 13th. i will never sell this boat i think. i have too much work and time in it i had to completely rebuild the transom then the cd and coil was bad i had to learn everything basically to narrow it down. now i am replacing lower unit seals. i feel like there's not much i don't know about my boat now, so if knowledge is power i feel pretty powerful now lol. i adjusted the throttle also but i can't test it till the seals are in.
 
Jerryjerry05 said:
Keep us posted.
Click to expand...
so i took off the water pump and plate but the shaft wont come out how do i get the bearing out with the shaft in still? how does the shaft come out? and looking where this seal is located it was leaking below this point where the water intake screens are it was coming out of them. im just asking as i could hear it gurgling bubbling sounds from the screen area also. sounded like a bad fart lol.
 
Last edited:
tommy2toes said:
so i took off the water pump and plate but the shaft wont come out how do i get the bearing out with the shaft in still? how does the shaft come out? and looking where this seal is located it was leaking below this point where the water intake screens are it was coming out of them. im just asking as i could hear it gurgling bubbling sounds from the screen area also. sounded like a bad fart lol.
Click to expand...

WELL OK THEN I GOT IT OUT! yea for me lol. it was much harder than it looked! but i did get it out without scratching or gouging anything so that's good. now im going to the store to get some sealer and some emery cloth to clean it up a bit no worries i will not sand away any metal. and all the gear teeth and shaft bearing i could see look to be in really great shape. i cleaned the bearing a bit and now its like butter smooth. i can hardly wait. i will let you know after i get it together and run a pressure test. is it ok then to use oil for the pressure test after its done? or would air be better? how many pounds of pressure should i use?
 
Air
Oil just clogs any small holes.
They will eventually leak but not enough under pressure to show where the leaks are.

It takes about 10-13# of pressure.

The noise coming from the inlet screen is normal as the air needs to come out somewhere.
 
Jerryjerry05 said:
Air
Oil just clogs any small holes.
They will eventually leak but not enough under pressure to show where the leaks are.

It takes about 10-13# of pressure.

The noise coming from the inlet screen is normal as the air needs to come out somewhere.
Click to expand...

man i just can't win. so i did the job and put it back together and i realized it wont turn so i quickly took it back apart and loosened the nut below the pinion gear and it turned fine. so i can't tighten it to much or it wont turn? i thought when i took it apart it took some force to turn that nut but now i cant tighten it that much or it will bind. so i put some of the sealer on the thread so it wont back off and finished putting it together. am i missing something i looked on a video i made taking it apart and i did not see anything different but this is a bit funny to me. can you tell me why it's like this?
 
New one on me!!
That nut needs to be torqued or it will come loose and cause major damage.

Ask over on the other site, post on the Mercury forum, there are a couple guys
over there that might be able to help??
Just don't mention it''s a Chrysler.
 
Nordin said:
Glad you got it up running.
Your motor has the 2 piece gear case and there is a gear case seal kit #1910.
You can order it from Mastertech Marine and other websites too.

Read at the other forum it stops when you put it in gear at idle.
You maybe have to increase the idle speed and open up the air/fuel mix screws at each carb.
Idle speed 700 rpm in gear in water and mix screw 1 1/8 turn out from lightly seated.



Nordin;620828 man i just can't win. so i did the job and put it back together and i realized it wont turn so i quickly took it back apart and loosened the nut below the pinion gear and it turned fine. so i can't tighten it to much or it wont turn? i thought when i took it apart it took some force to turn that nut but now i cant tighten it that much or it will bind. so i put some of the sealer on the thread so it wont back off and finished putting it together. am i missing something i looked on a video i made taking it apart and i did not see anything different but this is a bit funny to me. can you tell me why it's like this?
Click to expand...
 
tommy2toes said:
Nordin said:
Glad you got it up running.
Your motor has the 2 piece gear case and there is a gear case seal kit #1910.
You can order it from Mastertech Marine and other websites too.

Read at the other forum it stops when you put it in gear at idle.
You maybe have to increase the idle speed and open up the air/fuel mix screws at each carb.
Idle speed 700 rpm in gear in water and mix screw 1 1/8 turn out from lightly seated.



Nordin;620828 man i just can't win. so i did the job and put it back together and i realized it wont turn so i quickly took it back apart and loosened the nut below the pinion gear and it turned fine. so i can't tighten it to much or it wont turn? i thought when i took it apart it took some force to turn that nut but now i cant tighten it that much or it will bind. so i put some of the sealer on the thread so it wont back off and finished putting it together. am i missing something i looked on a video i made taking it apart and i did not see anything different but this is a bit funny to me. can you tell me why it's like this?
Click to expand...

got it i just made a small shim to fit worked well as far as i can tell i just need to test it now.
Click to expand...
 
i went to tysons and got some small washers and trimmed them to be smaller so now they are shims only and it worked very well it leaves just enough for the bearings to roll smooth no binding and now the nut is torqued tight like it was and i put thread lock on anyway to be safe. now the pressure test then the open water and figuring out the low idle i had to start in gear or it would die the idle is set a bit low i think is all. i turned the arm a couple threads to idlee it up i need to test it also now. i will let you know how it goes.
 
The towershaft is where you set the idle up.
There is a screw with a locking nut.
Back off the nut and turn the screw in to raise the idle.
 
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