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Running AQ130

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JimA82

Regular Contributor
Time for a new thread, with just a few questions. Promise I will be civil..


1st ? When putting it in reverse, it has a pretty good clunk. Not terrible like grinding but a clunk. Normal for the age of the boat or not?
Changed the oil in the lower last week, it was pretty black, but not milky. Also ran a magnet through the oil bucket it drained in and no metal bits came out.

2nd ? Would love to find some after market plug wires and distributor. Read quite a few things, some here, but nothing really definitive on what will work. Will plug wires for a B20 volvo work, the ends to the plugs look like the tip of the plug would be left on, currently they are not. And they wiggle quite a bit on the plug themselves.

Pretty much it, everything is running really well, as far as I can tell. I am pretty sure the tach is not working right, but that's a winter project. By running it and listening to the motor, I can tell where the sweet spot for this engine is. Valve adjustment will probably be this winter as well, can hear a ting or tick if I push it a bit. Drop it down and it goes away. Problem possibility or not?

Thanks! Jim
 
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JimA82 said:
1st ? When putting it in reverse, it has a pretty good clunk. Not terrible like grinding but a clunk. Normal for the age of the boat or not?
Which drive? 200 or 250?

Changed the oil in the lower last week, it was pretty black, but not milky.
Did you use 30W engine oil?

Also ran a magnet through the oil bucket it drained in and no metal bits came out.

2nd ? Would love to find some after market plug wires and distributor. Read quite a few things, some here, but nothing really definitive on what will work. Will plug wires for a B20 volvo work, the ends to the plugs look like the tip of the plug would be left on, currently they are not. And they wiggle quite a bit on the plug themselves.
You'll be hard pressed to find an alternative ignition distributor for this engine.
As for spark plug cables...... if they fit into the distributor cap, and if the length is correct, they should work.

Pretty much it, everything is running really well, as far as I can tell. I am pretty sure the tach is not working right, but that's a winter project. By running it and listening to the Engine, I can tell where the sweet spot for this engine is.

Valve adjustment will probably be this winter as well, can hear a ting or tick if I push it a bit. Drop it down and it goes away. Problem possibility or not?
I would NOT wait to do this.
Along with your firing order, use the 4 stop static procedure.

Thanks! Jim
Click to expand...
 
Thanks Ricardo appreciate the reply!

Drive is the 270

Yes on the 30w

Will have to look on the distributor, gotta be something out there that would work? It does seem to be firing fine, I still need to check compression at some point, but she gets up and goes pretty good. Plug wires just look old, I cleaned the connections which had a bit of corrosion on only 2 at the distributor end can't really see the actual wire. Coil wire looked good.

Valve wise, read a bit about it, but if no real issues and not pushing it, is it something I should be worried about? Sounds like that one might be above my pay grade?

Thanks again.
 
With what we refer to as mechanical cam followers (aka lifters), excessive valve stem-to-rocker-arm clearance will cause eventual damage to both.


You can use this automotive method if you want to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwkEsDStWsM


Here is another video. It doesn't look like he puts much torque on the locking nut...... make sure that you DO!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg4bbJ2Mpj4


I do not used that procedure for engines with hydraulic cam followers due to the risk of the cam follower not being precisely at bottom of base circle. I prefer to use the 4 stop method IF the cam followers are hydraulic..... yours are NOT!

A 4 cycle engine requires 720* of crankshaft rotation to complete the cycles of all cylinders.
(360 Xs 2 = 720)

The 4 cylinder engine crankshaft must rotate 180* in order to bring the next-in-line cylinder to TDC C/S.

You would begin with #1 cylinder a TDC C/S. Must be on the C/S to do this!
Adjust the valve stem-to-rocker arm clearance for both intake and exhaust valves.

You would then rotate the crankshaft 180*. This will place the next-in-line cylinder at TDC C/S.
Use the firing order to determine which cylinder this will be.

Again, adjust the valve stem-to-rocker arm clearance for both intake and exhaust valves.

Next, rotate the crankshaft another 180* and do the same.

Continue down the firing order until you return to #1 TDC C/S.


In all honesty, I would suggest doing what the videos suggest.



.
 
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I think that what he is hearing would be the slack between the set pin and the latch hooks when reversing.

He also likely has an older 250 drive, but perhaps with a 270 cover on it.
 
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RicardoMarine said:
With what we refer to as mechanical cam followers (aka lifters), excessive valve stem-to-rocker-arm clearance will cause eventual damage to both.


You can use this automotive method if you want to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwkEsDStWsM


Here is another video. It doesn't look like he puts much torque on the locking nut...... make sure that you DO!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg4bbJ2Mpj4


I do not used that procedure for engines with hydraulic cam followers due to the risk of the cam follower not being precisely at bottom of base circle. I prefer to use the 4 stop method IF the cam followers are hydraulic..... yours are NOT!

A 4 cycle engine requires 720* of crankshaft rotation to complete the cycles of all cylinders.
(360 Xs 2 = 720)

The 4 cylinder engine crankshaft must rotate 180* in order to bring the next-in-line cylinder to TDC C/S.

You would begin with #1 cylinder a TDC C/S. Must be on the C/S to do this!
Adjust the valve stem-to-rocker arm clearance for both intake and exhaust valves.

You would then rotate the crankshaft 180*. This will place the next-in-line cylinder at TDC C/S.
Use the firing order to determine which cylinder this will be.

Again, adjust the valve stem-to-rocker arm clearance for both intake and exhaust valves.

Next, rotate the crankshaft another 180* and do the same.

Continue down the firing order until you return to #1 TDC C/S.


In all honesty, I would suggest doing what the videos suggest.



.
Click to expand...


Lots of info there thank you! I have not seen the video yet, but I need to take the time to watch it and digest what I need to do. As far as if it is a 250 or 270? Everything I have seen with this boat would leave me to believe it is a 270. Unless Volvo changed the cover plate on purpose? I can probably get a serial number to confirm what it actually is. Or I can take some pics. What was the difference from a 250 to a 270?

Best I can read on the serial number plate by the dip stick fitting. Is PZNR2799 or 2789/ 27898 maybe 85 something? It is pretty corroded. Do not see any other numbers on it. Like mentioned unless Volvo put a 270 plate on a 250 I am thinking it is a 270.


Thanks! Jim
 
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JimA82 said:
Lots of info there thank you! I have not seen the video yet, but I need to take the time to watch it and digest what I need to do.
As far as if it is a 250 or 270? Everything I have seen with this boat would leave me to believe it is a 270. Unless Volvo changed the cover plate on purpose?
If the cover had been changed, would have been changed by a previous owner.... not Volvo Penta!

I can probably get a serial number to confirm what it actually is. Or I can take some pics.
What was the difference from a 250 to a 270?
They will look very similar to each other.
250 = small bearing transmission, small diameter male yoke shaft, bevel cut gears in lower unit, brass inserts in suspension fork.
Both use the latch hooks and reverse lock scenario, and the attached exhaust outlet housing with flapper.

Best I can read on the serial number plate by the dip stick fitting. Is PZNR2799 or 2789/ 27898 maybe 85 something? It is pretty corroded. Do not see any other numbers on it. Like mentioned unless Volvo put a 270 plate on a 250 I am thinking it is a 270.


Thanks! Jim
Click to expand...
 
JimA82 said:
Time for a new thread, with just a few questions. Promise I will be civil..


1st ? When putting it in reverse, it has a pretty good clunk. Not terrible like grinding but a clunk. Normal for the age of the boat or not?
Changed the oil in the lower last week, it was pretty black, but not milky. Also ran a magnet through the oil bucket it drained in and no metal bits came out.

My 270 clunks a little bit when putting it in reverse. Make sure you're idling as low as it will go before engaging reverse.

2nd ? Would love to find some after market plug wires and distributor. Read quite a few things, some here, but nothing really definitive on what will work. Will plug wires for a B20 volvo work, the ends to the plugs look like the tip of the plug would be left on, currently they are not. And they wiggle quite a bit on the plug themselves.

As Ricardo previously said, any plug wires should work as long as they are the correct length. I replaced mine many years ago with Bosch wires I picked up at a local auto parts store after rummaging through various boxes to find the right lengths.
Click to expand...

See above
 
Thanks Ricardo! Watching the video on the valves, pretty sure I can do it. But may wait till the fall, we have maybe another few weeks of Summer left up here.

am_dew, I went down to Napa, they were not much help. "young people" UGH!

Looks like I can get them and the distributor on line, so might go that route.

The clunk in reverse is not terrible, RPMS sound as low as it can go, forward shifts fine. I still need to source a new tach, just need to find something that will fit in the dash. And I have not yet tackled the wiring mess behind it. Another fall project.

Thanks again to all helping..
 
JimA82 said:
Thanks Ricardo!
You are welcome!

Watching the video on the valves, pretty sure I can do it. But may wait till the fall, we have maybe another few weeks of Summer left up here.

am_dew, I went down to Napa, they were not much help. "young people" UGH!

Looks like I can get them and the distributor on line, so might go that route.

The clunk in reverse is not terrible, RPMS sound as low as it can go, forward shifts fine. I still need to source a new tach, just need to find something that will fit in the dash. And I have not yet tackled the wiring mess behind it. Another fall project.

Thanks again to all helping..
Click to expand...


A friendly FYI........ RPM = revolutions per minute.
Revolutions is plural, minute is singular.
 
Thoughts on this.. Been checking the oil regularly, noticed Tuesday after taking it out I was a 1/2 qt low on the dip stick oil was clear/golden. So tonight I get home and want to add oil and see milk, white scuz on the under side of the valve cap. Thinking WTH, I pull the valve cover. I see a couple of the bolt heads under the cover are milky white, also the under side of the valve cover at the back end. The tube going into the air intake from the engine block has a whitish goop inside, not a lot but some.. Still do not understand the theory behind this? Pumping exhaust back from the block to the carbs, why not vent it out the back somewhere?

After shooting am_dew some pics, he suggest I ask here. I drained the oil, and it is pitch black. Maybe a wisp of white on the top if that. I also removed the filter and no milk what so ever came out.

I am no expert, but is it condensation from the heat pulling moisture out or is something else going on? I pulled the plugs, not fouled, but a bit of a gas smell on them..


I am more relieved the oil is not saturated like milk, but curious if this is normal at the top end? Also is it normal to have a clear oil on the dipstick though the oil out of the pan is pitch black. I know I check my car and when the stick is black, it's black oil coming out and time for a change. Thoughts and thank you!
 
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JimA82 said:
Thoughts on this.. Been checking the oil regularly, noticed Tuesday after taking it out I was a 1/2 qt low on the dip stick oil was clear/golden.
In what time frame did this engine consume 1/2 quart of oil?

So tonight I get home and want to add oil and see milk, white scuz on the under side of the valve cap. Thinking WTH, I pull the valve cover. I see a couple of the bolt heads under the cover are milky white, also the under side of the valve cover at the back end. The tube going into the air intake from the engine block has a whitish goop inside, not a lot but some.. Still do not understand the theory behind this? Pumping exhaust back from the block to the carbs, why not vent it out the back somewhere?

After shooting am_dew some pics, he suggest I ask here. I drained the oil, and it is pitch black.
Pitch black oil may indicate carbon contamination caused by combustion gasses getting past the piston rings. Not a good sign!

Maybe a wisp of white on the top if that. I also removed the filter and no milk what so ever came out.

I am no expert, but is it condensation from the heat pulling moisture out or is something else going on?
There should be no milky substance within your engine.

I pulled the plugs, not fouled, but a bit of a gas smell on them..


I am more relieved the oil is not saturated like milk, but curious if this is normal at the top end?
Not normal! Something is wrong here!

Also is it normal to have a clear oil on the dipstick though the oil out of the pan is pitch black.
I can't quite explain that one!
Click to expand...
 
Last time I checked it was a week ago Tuesday before we went out and it was fine. Maybe dropped a bit but was not worried. Then we went out this last Tuesday, for the longest run yet about 4 hours. I checked it when we got back in and noticed it had dropped. Another odd thing I noticed last night after I drained the oil. The oil filter did not have much if any in it. Maybe a tbsp if that, thought it was weird, but the boat has been sitting since Tuesday, and maybe it just drained out? Which doesn't make sense, you would think it would be almost half full being it's horizontal?


So a couple things.

Put new filter and oil in and run it see how it goes?

Would a compression test tell me anything? Also need to do the valve adjustment, would that cause this carbon issue?



Boat seems to be running fine, what are long term options I guess?

Thanks appreciate the time!
 
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JimA82 said:
Last time I checked it was a week ago Tuesday before we went out and it was fine. Maybe dropped a bit but was not worried. Then we went out this last Tuesday, for the longest run yet about 4 hours. I checked it when we got back in and noticed it had dropped.
1/2 quart loss in 4 hours run time is excessive.

Another odd thing I noticed last night after I drained the oil. The oil filter did not have much if any in it. Maybe a tbsp if that, thought it was weird, but the boat has been sitting since Tuesday, and maybe it just drained out? Which doesn't make sense, you would think it would be almost half full being it's horizontal?
That means that each time you start the engine, the oil pump must first fill the filter cartridge before any oil reaches the oil galleys.


So a couple things.

Put new filter and oil in and run it see how it goes?

Would a compression test tell me anything?
It will let you know what each cylinder is capable of regarding cylinder pressure.
In order to find or locate a problem area, you will want to perform a cylinder leak-down test.
In order to find or locate a crack in a wet area, you may want to pressurize the cooling system.

Also need to do the valve adjustment, would that cause this carbon issue?
I would say NO!
Click to expand...
 
So if I pressurize the system with water, how can you tell where the problem is? That said the water will run out the outdrive, so how do you pressurize it?
 
Last night when I removed the oil filter, I found it odd it was bone dry and in the area above the oil cooler was dry as well. No oil film what so ever where the filter screws onto. When I held the filter upside down no oil came out of the filter, just a small amount.
On a whim I decided to cut the filter in half. Once I cut into the top of the filter it spewed oil like crazy, so all that oil was not coming out because the media in the filter was so saturated it would not flow through. What would cause this with say 15 hours maybe 17 max on a new filter and oil I have no idea? I tore the filter media apart, I do not see any metal other then what I cut up. Carbon maybe in the oil and building up and guessing enough would clog the media and not allow oil to flow through?


Kinda torn at this point. Temps were normal, cool water was flowing through the cooling tubes as I checked them on the way back to the dock.

This is a question I hate to ask! But what are the options for another motor, not going the AQ130 way if there is any? Pretty sure of the answer but humor me.. I am going to refill with oil and new filter and run tomorrow and see what I get.

Or do I turn this thing into a lost cause and make it a cool Koi pond?

Ricardo would love some thoughts! Thanks! Jim
 
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Might also explain where that missing 1/2 qt or so of oil all of a sudden went? The volume that came out after cutting it the filter would be about right.
 
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JimA82 said:
So if I pressurize the system with water, how can you tell where the problem is? That said the water will run out the outdrive, so how do you pressurize it?
You would be pressurizing the engine's cooling system only........, not the entire raw water system!
Click to expand...

JimA82 said:
......................................

This is a question I hate to ask! But what are the options for another Engine, not going the AQ130 way if there is any? Pretty sure of the answer but humor me..
With a change to the exhaust down tube, a later OHC 4 cylinder flywheel cover (bell housing in the auto world), the OHC AQ120, 125, 140, 145 etc engine can be installed in front of your stern drive.
The over-all gear reduction is the same...... 2.15:1.

All of the Volvo Penta OHC 4 cylinder engines are fitted with a Closed Cooling system, a better seawater pump arrangement, intake manifold on Port side with the exhaust manifold on the Stbd side, and they will typically run circles around the old push rod engines.

I am going to refill with oil and new filter and run tomorrow and see what I get.
As much as I would like to see it......, nothing magical nor spiritual has occurred since this issue. No cast iron healing, no head gasket self-repair, etc. You are likely going to see the same results.

Ricardo would love some thoughts! Thanks! Jim

Jim, had we been neighbors, cousins, brother-in-laws or otherwise friends, I would have suggested that you passed on this old boat back when you were first looking at it.
Click to expand...


Here are a few pictures of the Volvo Penta OHC 4 cylinder engines.

AQ 145 etc.jpg
 
Thanks for the info! And yes like I said before, I wouldn't do it again if I had the choice. That said, I can't just sit here and look at this boat sitting in the driveway and do nothing. I have to try and see what I get, even if it is the same results then I go from there.

Last question, what do you think I am looking price wise to replace it with something else down the road and where do I start looking for something that would work? The picture you showed, pretty sure that wouldn't fit in the engine well of this boat or it just looks big in the picture?


After that, I did a quick search and the picture you posted came up. So 3+ grand for a AQ125 Some food for thought this next year. Just keep the eyes open and see what pops up. Now, do I feel confident that I could take this one out and fit something in without pulling whats left of my hair out? I believe I could.. :)

Thanks again!
 
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So I put new oil in and filter, got to the lake only 10 min away and the boat fired right up. We went out and ran it slow for awhile then cranked it up to plane, then slow and fast for about 2 hours.. Temps were fine, boat ran good yadda yadda. I got home drained the oil and removed the filter. Black oil came out of the pan, gold oil came out of the filter. When I looked up at the btm of the Tupperware container, I could see a layer of foamy milky water. Kinda odd. This morning I poured the oil out of the container, and the stuff at the btm was like creamy foam. Some bits of it was like cottage cheese. I did put a can of sea foam into the fuel last Tuesday when we went out, ran at least a half a tank. Then I topped it off before going last night.
No idea if that would cause that or not.

Oil was not milky through out, just what was at the btm of the container.

Obviously there is a problem, just not sure what? I am running it again today with fresh oil and will drain again and see whats there. I am doing the compression test tomorrow and probably the valves as well.

Thoughts are welcomed, and thanks! Jim
 
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Quick update on some things I did. So I changed the oil again after a 4+ hour run yesterday, boat ran great with 4 adults 1 teen and a kid. We had a good day! Oil was black but not nearly as bad as before, there was the white foam in the btm of the container, but not nearly what there was the two times before. Also no cream on the underside of the valve cover.

Today I adjusted the valves, all were off. Thanks for the link Ricardo!

I also did a compression test, results as follows. I did each cylinder twice to confirm.


#1 165
#2 162
#3 161
#4 161

Seems positive but not sure what all that really means, oil still turned dark after a 4 hour run. The lack of cream in the btm of the container is encouraging. Still gotta be a problem somewhere or is it possible there is -hit ton of sludge coming up if that is possible.

Oil cooler tube leaking a bit? Exhaust manifold leaking back in somewhere? No I have not done a water pressure test yet.

Again would love some feedback on these finding, so I can keep moving forward. VS turning this boat into a koi pond.

Thanks as always! Jim
 
So another couple of questions and I am done here.

If the engine is running, and the temp comes up to allow the water to flow through the block? Would water pour out of that copper engine block drain that sticks off the right side of the block?

Could he have sucked up sand and could it get that far into the block? And there is a strainer before the water pump that was clean.

Reason I ask is because the idiot that had the boat before me just stuck a plug in it. Actually a small bolt with silicone. I removed it and just plugged a pcs of hose and clamped it over the tube 2 months ago. When I removed like today it just drips a little that's about it. So I stuck a screw driver in there and twist a bit to try and clear any blockage and I get this kind of black gritty sand on the end. I squirt water in and little more comes out. I fired the engine up and let it run till it hit 150 or so. I know water is flowing as the pipes and oil cooler are cold. But nothing comes out of the tube except a drip? Screw driver is going in about 5" maybe, then I hit something hard like probably the inside of the block. Now I get nothing on the tip.

Thoughts again appreciated..
 
I've had a large amount of sand and muck sucked into one of my Volvo 4 bangers water jackets, past the "filter", which are usually sized to keep seaweed out, not sand and muck.

Water should flow out of the block drain. I spent a tedious hour once with a bend coat hanger wire reverse snaking that port ( valve removed) until I got any real flow. If engine will run on muffs at idle without overheating, I'd try to flush the system that way. Pressurizing the raw water system has its risks. Try to snake forward and aft of the drain hole as well.

Avoid running a ground and beaching/unbeaching the boat under power. I avoided much of this nonsense by converting to thru hull raw water inlet.
 
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Thanks for the reply! And no I have not had it near a beach, nor will I while running or not having the motor up.

Since you answered one of the questions, what do you think of the compression numbers? Are they possible with a bad head gasket? I do not have the tool to do a leak down test, I am not sure what a water pressure test will show other then there is a problem, but it won't tell me where it is from what I have read. I know I can take the manifold off, done that. Pretty sure I can take the head off, but after that what would I look for assuming the rings are good by the compression numbers or could those be false and or fooling me. Water obviously getting in somewhere but it can't be much from the amount showing up. Is it possible a very small crack in the block letting some water seep in?

I know there is no "magic wand" that will make the problem go away. But other then the small amount of water getting in and the blacken oil what am I looking for here on a cause?

I can find a new block, head and gaskets and assuming that would solve the problem?

I think Ricardo got bored or tired of questions? But I am just looking for some direction here other then spending 3 grand on a new motor. Parts I am seeing on ebay are quite a bit less, though a chance I take.

Appreciate the advise! Jim
 
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JimA82 said:
Thanks for the reply! And no I have not had it near a beach, nor will I while running or not having the motor up.
You mean while having the drive tilted UP?

Since you answered one of the questions, what do you think of the compression numbers?
Your cylinder pressure readings are extremely consistent with one another, of which is a good sign!

Are they possible with a bad head gasket?
If a head gasket is sealing correctly around the cylinder bores, yet is not sealing at/near the cooling jackets......yes!


I do not have the tool to do a leak down test, I am not sure what a water pressure test will show other then there is a problem, but it won't tell me where it is from what I have read.
You would at least know that you either have a leak or that you don't have a leak.


I know I can take the manifold off, done that. Pretty sure I can take the head off, but after that what would I look for assuming the rings are good by the compression numbers or could those be false and or fooling me.
Carefully remove the head and gasket. Take the gasket and the cylinder head into a pro and ask if they see any problem areas.

Water obviously getting in somewhere but it can't be much from the amount showing up.
Any amount of water entering areas where it should not be, is a bad thing!

Is it possible a very small crack in the block letting some water seep in?
Certainly!

I know there is no "magic wand" that will make the problem go away.
That would depend on the magician and how good he is!

But other than the small amount of water getting in and the blacken oil what am I looking for here on a cause?
Water: head gasket, crack in head, crack in cylinder block, bad exhaust manifold, etc.
Black oil: excessive fuel burn, excessive oil heat, bad piston rings, worn valve guides, wrong type of oil, etc.

I can find a new block, head and gaskets and assuming that would solve the problem?
My suggestion: don't waste a dime on another old outdated push rod engine.
Instead, look for a good OHC 4 banger!

I think Ricardo got bored or tired of questions?
Well, I don't get tired of the questions........ I just hate seeing someone throw good money at an old system like this!
Perhaps someday you will understand what I'm saying!

But I am just looking for some direction here other then spending 3 grand on a new ENGINE.
Parts I am seeing on ebay are quite a bit less, though a chance I take.
Yes!

Appreciate the advise! Jim
Click to expand...
 
Leak test is next in order here. If I choose to remove the head after that, do I need to take the off the springs and what not off to remove the head or can it be done with out all that? I see 4 or so bolts under the rocker arms, doubt a closed wrench is going to cut it. But then taking the time, everything looks like it just comes off slowly pcs by pcs on the push rod side. There are a few good video's I have been watching, but they are doing complete rebuilds.

Thanks! Jim
 
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