2015 Suzuki DF140 no tell tale & checked a lot. hoping to get some help & perspective

Looking a little help....hopefully someone can enlighten me with their wisdom. <br><br>2015 Suzuki DF140 4 stroke......I noticed the engine tell tale stream (pee) was weak. My dealer mentioned it even after he changes the impeller about a year ago. I looked into a descalers, rydlyme solution. Over the last two years, I've over heated a couple of times...primarily due to being in shallow ponds...running over grass....while my jackplate is up. Normal operating temperature is between 143-150 degrees. Engine overheat turns on at 180-183 degrees. Each time I got in shallower areas like I mentioned, I would stop in deeper water and reverse to try and purge the coolant system. I'd always watch my engine temperature drop every time. And I'd never be in a place where I didn't get the temperature back down. Recently, about the last 80 days, I got busy and hadn't been able to get on the water. I took off work last Wednesday (Nov 30th) to go fishing. I put the rabbit ears to make sure my engine was running ok, and I noticed the motor had no tell tale (pee stream). Since then, I've done a lot. <br><br>I ordered 2 gallons of rydlyme, all new water pump pieces: gasket, metal plate, metal bowl, key way, impeller, water pump housing, all gaskets (one for the water pump housing that's inlayed internally, 2 more gaskets (one smaller that goes in before the impeller metal bowl is placed into the water pump housing and the other used between the water pump housing and installing it to the lower unit over the drive shaft with the 4 bolts.....I've removed the lower unit off the engine and replaced all components associated with the water pump. At the same time, I've pulled all my anodes off, pulled the theromstat (checked to see if it opened), and replaced the water pressure valve. With thermostat removed and the lower unit off, I built a coolant cleaning system using a reservoir and a really strong pump. I attached the pump straight to the water pump intake on the motor, removed the engine cleanout plug to attach another hose to feed back into the reservior, and then removed the tell tale (pee) piece...I pulled it off...and put a hose from that that leads back to the reservior as well. I used the 2 gallons of rydlyme with about 2-4 gallons of water. I ran the pump for 2 hours and you can physically see water coming from the tell tale hose back into the reservior. The rydlyme took a ton of mud, crust, whatever out of my engine. I removed all the anodes to see the condition of the internals and everything looked significantly cleaner. I re-installed the anodes, and ran water through system 2 separate times and the tell tale (pee stream) is clear as day with the strong pump pushing water into the coolant system. <br><br>I reattached the lower unit back onto the motor and turned on the motor with rabbit ears over the intake on the lower unit. there's no tell tale (pee stream) and I was thinking maybe it needs to be fully submerged to show a stream coming off the engine. So I got a 40 gallon trash bin and filled it with water and turned the engine over, still no tell tale (pee stream) off the engine after running it while watching the temperature gauge. There's certainly pressure (movement of hot air) coming from the tell tale location, and I know it's clear enough for water to push out with the pump cleaning system pushing water into engine.....I'm not really sure what the cause could be at this moment. I used a temperature gun while the engine was running to see where the hottest parts of the engine are....and it was toward the top of where the rectifier is located. I thought about tracing everything back (whatever I need to remove); I actually bought gaskets for the entire engine to open up everything to see if there could be a clog in the system somewhere?? I think it's also worth noting, with the thermostat removed and the lower unit off, I ran the pump to push water straight into the water pump inline of the engine and water shot out of the hose on top that connects to the thermostat housing. <br><br>I'm currently scratching my head and hoping someone can provide some insight or solutions to get my motor peeing again. could it be at the rectifier, the vst? I haven't found a good diagram/illustration of where the engine water comes in and out of the motor. I did pull lines off the tell tale which led to a t fitting (one goes to the thermostat housing, the other to the front side of the motor. I noticed there are two lines that connect to the top and bottom of the front side of the engine (both male fittings where the water lines slip onto). Are these where the water delivers to the rest of the engine? <br><br>Another question I have, when you turn over the engine, does the drive shaft turn (which in turn turns the impeller in the housing) by turn over the engine or does it need to be in gear??  <br><br>I have a ton of pictures on my phone that I'm trying to add onto the forum to provide visuals. <br><br>Looking for some help on what could be the problem....appreciate any help anyone can provide!! 

Pictures….

When motor starts the driveshaft turns .----Water pump works.-----Shifting is done inside the gearcase.-----

From a 2009 DF90A, I would think your 2015 would be similar. Your picture didn’t come thru, likely picture file size too big.

Appreciate the info. I'm trying to get some visual to provide. All the pictures on my iphone won't upload.

Update though; removed the rectifier because toward the top was the hottest part of the motor while running the motor with rabbit ears on the intake of the lower unit. To remove it, I had to unclip a zip tie, left the anodes in, and removed maybe 8 or 10 12mm bolts. Gasket pulled apart (I've got a new one). The inside certainly had build up though; wire brushed and picked out all of the junk. A pick on the back top of the cavity area revealed a complete clog of a small hole. Just above that clog is where I read the hottest area of the motor with a temp gun. There's a sensor there...slightly to the top right of the rectifier. Removed that polished it, reinstalled. I thought that might have something to do with it. I went to the nearest boat launch and tried to get that impeller spinning to hopefully create some stronger pressure.....the exit flow was non-existent. I had to shut it down just before an overheat (usually right at 180-187 degrees.) Got it down to 155 and got it back to the dock and it almost over heat again. Definitely clogged somewhere in the coolant. Wait until you see what came over of the my motor on the rydlyme rinse. I'm gonna get this boat working haha.....I'm a pretty big fisherman and right now, I'm missing 20+ inch trout bites jigging deep around 14-20 ft and suspending twitch baits in 10 ft. I motivated to say the least haha.

These visual guides are awesome. I appreciate the info. I'm still trying to figure out the upload pictures situation.

I'm gonna check whatever that heat sensor I mentioned. While a heat gun is blowing at the tip, I'll have a multimeter on ohms across the plug...the circuit should close a certain temperature and give a 0.00 ohm reading.

I looked at the cooling schematic provided, I know the intake is good, water pump is completely new, water tube is good, oil pan water jacket cover (is that the valve cover spring relief....I know it's right around the oil....( I started the motor with that cover off and it shot out so I know that area is getting water....also shot water out of the cleaning hose thread connect) There was water even reaching the rectifier while I had that open.

I think the confusion for me comes from the water sump pump pushing water up the main inlet hose (off the water pump) and there's a strong flow off the tell tale easily seen and it's strong.....when I turn the motor over, there's nothing but hot air pumping out.

Sensor you are referring to is #4 Exhaust Manifold temperature sensor.





You also have an Cylinder Temperature Sensor



Not getting water thru the telltale is an indication that the water pump isn’t pumping. The water pump has to be fully submerged for it to work. When you used the barrel was the water pump fully submerged plus a couple of inches? Sometimes muffs don’t supply enough water depending on the make and household water pressure. How confident are you that the new water pump was installed correctly?
The pump you used generated enough pressure to push rydlyme out the telltale yet the Suzuki water pump won’t push water out the telltale.

appreciate all the visuals once again. I started my motor with the pressure spring valve off on the oil pan area....water shot out....re-installed and than pulled off the clean out thread (you can attached a hose to the engine)...started the motor and it shot out...re-installed....removed the rectifier and water shot out....re-installed so i know the water pump is working...all those tests were with rabbit ears over the lower unit intake too. I do think it could possibly be a pressure problem though....I ran the motor yesterday at a launch....but it refused to show a tell tale....even when I kicked up the rpm's in reverse and in forward.....It's puzzling right now...


any recommendations on how to upload pictures....I've tried like 30 times and its saying the file is too big?

http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/faq.php?faq=vb3_reading_posting#faq_vb3_attachments

You’ll have set your camera/phone to take low resolution images. Failing that I’ve run my pictures thru Adobe, create a pdf file which is smaller the original photo. Sometimes you can crop the outside edges and end up with a small enough image that the forum will swallow.

See post #4, the flowchart I provided doesn’t have a oil cooler whereas your 140 will have a oil cooler. Might be worth looking at a as possible location for buildup that will slow the water flow.

Hey William, thanks for all the input. That flow chart is a huge help.

One thing that's confusing to me is that when the lower unit is off and I connect a sump pump to the main water engine tube, I get a strong tell tale flow.....but with the lower unit reinstalled and the engine turned over, I get nothing from the tell tale but hot pressurized air (not incredibly strong). This makes me think it's a pressure issue rather than a blockage. Do you know if turning the engine over redirects the water flow at all vs. where it flows when off.... Possibly changing the route?

Looking at your water schematic you provided, it's one of 3 locations: Oil pan, oil pan water jacket cover, or engine holder ( i think that's what it reads)....

My picture upload failures are also quite a road block considering I haven't been able to provide visuals. I've got to figure that out.

Pictures might help….

https://www.boats.net/catalog/suzuk...ning-vin-14003f-510001/water-pump-df140at-e03

Disclaimer: I have never been this deep into my water pump and the link above has parts that I don’t have.

With my DF90A I have water coming out the telltale within seconds of firing it up. Fresh water engine.

What if some crud got into your water tube(part #5) with you flushing the engine? The sump pump has enough pressure to blast thru the crud but the Suzuki water pump hasn’t enough pressure to send the cooling water. I do know that if the bushings(part#6 & #8) are dislodged/rotted you will lose water pressure. Note part #25, filter, looks like a place to collect crud and hinder water flow. To my understanding the powerhead has to come off to access the top end of the water tube. With smaller portable outboards I’ve read that people will use a drill to spin the driveshaft to confirm the the water pump is in fact working, with the larger driveshaft you would need one heck of a drill. The only other thing that would dump water would be the pressure relief valve but you addressed that in your first post. All I can suggest at this point is double check the water pump assembly, did you spin the driveshaft clockwise while seating the impeller? Can you figure out a way to spin the driveshaft clockwise to check the water pump is pumping adequate water? Now might be a good time to purchase a Genuine Suzuki service manual, especially if you have to go deeper than pulling the lower unit off. Another random thought you haven’t mentioned, have you pulled the intake screens off looking for seaweed? At this point I’m just throwing ideas out that doesn’t involve tearing the engine apart. Another option would be to take it a reputable Suzuki shop but that will cost $.

Nor have I haha, but I'm taking the optimistic viewpoint that I'm learning through it. Honestly, I'm paying for years of running my motor through some very suspect areas. The motor is on a jackplate, the boat drafts 6 inches of water, and I rarely run into other anglers because I push my motor. This is the result of those decisions, unfortunately.

I'm 98% confident in the water pump installation. I had the impeller replaced about 2 years ago. I took it to a local Suzuki dealer because I noticed my operating temperature dropped from 143-150 degrees to around 135. Makes complete sense when you find out the thermostat was stuck in upright position. I've already learned a ton thus far about my engine. Honestly, I don't think the impeller was in that bad of shape....gasket was a weak point for sure, but I think water was pumping before I replaced it.

I know the impeller pressure is reaching the bottom water cavity behind the rectifier when I have the engine turned over. So Part #5, #6, #8, & #25 I think are all intact and functioning like they're supposed to. I appreciate you digging through these schematics though!!

To answer your questions, I did in fact spin the driveshaft clockwise to install the housing over the impeller. I was trying to see if I could use/create a makeshift fitting with a drill to turn it before reinstallation (I think it works just fine honestly). It's proven that to me by checking flow at different levels on the motor while it's turned over.

I'm 100% purchasing the service manual.

I think I'm going to remove the lower unit once again....leave that main water inlet tube exposed for now because it won't pee with the lower unit installed. I may use the cleaning system and run it from the top at the thermostat...maybe pressurizing from the top will give me some clues. I bought all the gaskets to take off everything (water jacket, valve covers to expose the cylinders (IF I HAVE TO).....I've gotta get this picture situation out (frustration is setting in)

I still think it's a clog in the engine somewhere and you'd understand as well if I can get the pictures on here.

Man.....that took some time.....

If it not a blockage maybe the buildup is enough to hinder heat transfer from the engine? Keep us posted on what you find. Good luck.