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Troubleshooting no-start condition

swampyankee

Contributing Member
Long story here, and looking for anything I might have missed in troubleshooting a no-start condition:

Last fall I purchased a nice-condition Slickcraft 279SC with carburetted 5.7L and Alpha One outddrive. The boat had not been on the water in 2021 because the PO could not get it started. He had 2 different techs look at the boat trying to diagnose the problem. One had cut the engine wiring connector out and butt-spliced wiring together because he thought one of the pin connectors was bad. Clearly not a very good tech. The boat checked off alot of boxes for us so I took a look. After turning it over, I hot-wired the ballast resistor and sprayed some gas in the carb and got it to fire. Feeling that the problem was in the wiring, and being a former electrician with alot of experience troubleshooting auto electrics, I bought the boat very cheaply.

After some troubleshooting and a new starter, I found a bad ground to the aftermarket Carter fuel pump which I corrected. The 3 pole oil pressure switch typically used in conjunction was badly rusted so I replaced that with a marine grade one, and wired things per the Carter manual. After that the engine started and ran fine. There were more wiring issues such as the tach sender wire being disconnected at the coil so I reconnected it and got the tach working.

Fast-forward to this past weekend when I was prepping the boat to launch - I couldn't get the engine to fire. Thinking the year-old gas might be bad, I sprayed fuel into the carb, but it still would not fire. I pulled a plug and initially got a weak spark (red, not white). I started re-checking my power connections to the coil, ignition, etc. I found a Mallory 609 module in the distributor that was loose so I secured it properly. I also verified power and ground to it, as well as power to the coil. Still no joy, and now no spark at a plug. I found a rats nest of hot connections tagged onto the hot wire going to the ballast resistor - ignition module, fuel pump power to the N.O terminal on the oil pressure switch (start circuit power goes to the N.C. terminal), and a mysterious purple wire that goes back into the engine harness (I'll trace that one out).
Verifying I have power to the ignition module and coil, I will check and adjust the gap at the ignition reluctor, but the next step would be to bench-test the coil and ignition module. Anything else I should look at? Anything I might have missed?
 
and a mysterious purple wire that goes back into the engine harness (I'll trace that one out).

Ayuh,.... Purple wires should be the ignition circuit,.....

What vintage is this rig,..??..?? Merc has been usin' 350s for 'bout 50 years,.....
 
Based on your description, if this is not EFI or is it?
If Not EFI you are running a NON OEM ignition.

Merc never used a msd or distributor with a reluctor for non EFI in the mid '90's

Need more info....EFI or not?
 
Based on your description, if this is not EFI or is it?
If Not EFI you are running a NON OEM ignition.

Merc never used a msd or distributor with a reluctor for non EFI in the mid '90's

Need more info....EFI or not?


It's a carbed engine as described in my first post. Actually, it's a Pleasurecraft Marine replacement engine on an Alpha One drive. I can't see if it has a label on the side of the distributor from my only access point, but it might be an aftermarket Sierra Mallory distributor, since it has the billet aluminum cap clips.
 
Ok.
This is a mercruiser section.

Most here only deal with mercruiser ignitions.

Most here only have mercrusier manuals such as myself.

of course the engine and ignition do not matter as long as its wired properly when changed from mercruiser to what ever.
 
Ok.
This is a mercruiser section.

Most here only deal with mercruiser ignitions.

Most here only have mercrusier manuals such as myself.

of course the engine and ignition do not matter as long as its wired properly when changed from mercruiser to what ever.

Ok, sorry for the post. I assumed it would be similar enough since it was originally a Mercruiser engine and outdrive.

Delete my post.
 
Unfortunately mercruiser used pripryitory electronic ignitions for carbed engines.

Thunderbolt IV and V. With a pripriotory timing control module.
For V8 and V6 mercrusiser Alpha and Bravo carbed engines from early '80's until late 1990's when they went to EFI.
They started using a more or less GM marinized ignition after the ThunderBolt
 
Unfortunately mercruiser used pripryitory electronic ignitions for carbed engines.

Thunderbolt IV and V. With a pripriotory timing control module.
For V8 and V6 mercrusiser Alpha and Bravo carbed engines from early '80's until late 1990's when they went to EFI.
They started using a more or less GM marinized ignition after the ThunderBolt


Well, thankfully the ignition setup without EFI I have seems to have some pretty basic connections -
- ignition power thru ballast resistor to coil,
- 3 wires to Mallory 609:
- ignition red to module power
- green to coil neg. along with grey to tach
- brown to engine block ground.
The Mallory doesn't use an external capacitor
Fuel pump is run off either the starter relay to start or ignition power via the oil pressure switch once running.

It would seem that as long as I get power to the proper places mentioned above, then the only possibility for no=spark is either a bad coil or bad ignition module.

But the thread has been moved to the PCM section.
 
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I think you are on a viable path....I'd start with the mallory troubleshooting process...you can find it on the www.

If the mercruiser harness was used on the PCM engine (when that swap was done), there really isn't a need for an external ballast resistor and that could be an issue.
 
I think you are on a viable path....I'd start with the mallory troubleshooting process...you can find it on the www.

If the mercruiser harness was used on the PCM engine (when that swap was done), there really isn't a need for an external ballast resistor and that could be an issue.

I have the Mallroy manual PDF including test procedure.
Does the Mercruiser harness include a resistor wire? I can test for that, but I know I have 12V going into the ballast resistor. I haven't checked output V yet.
 
I went back and reread ALL of the previous posts...with the I/O unit, its highly unlikely the harness has the ballast wire (TB-IV systems didn't need it)...with B+ going into the ballast, the harness is OK...

You may wanna check the ballast resistor, for continuity, once it gets hot. Especially if its not mounted securely...they will sometimes get cracked and go intermittent once hot...
 
Are you making certain that the ignition cut-outs for the shifter are all set correctly? Not sure if I saw that in thread. Did you try to start engine by eliminating engine harness and running jumper to ignition coil, and a start switch on starter solenoid? This may help you isolate issues.
 
Are you making certain that the ignition cut-outs for the shifter are all set correctly? Not sure if I saw that in thread. Did you try to start engine by eliminating engine harness and running jumper to ignition coil, and a start switch on starter solenoid? This may help you isolate issues.

With key on, I have power to coil via ballast resistor as well as ignition module. The coil tests ok, but the Mallory manual claims there should be 6v coil to ground when redactor is off pickup coil, and then a jump to 12v when redactor is grounded to pickup coil. I also re-checked redactor-pickup gap (.007" - .010") and static timing. I could run a hot wire to power everything from battery, but at this point continuing to turn the engine over with the missing teeth off the flywheel is only going to lead to damage to the starter, so I've suspended all troubleshooting until after I pull the motor and replace the flywheel/ring gear.
 
Are you making certain that the ignition cut-outs for the shifter are all set correctly? Not sure if I saw that in thread. Did you try to start engine by eliminating engine harness and running jumper to ignition coil, and a start switch on starter solenoid? This may help you isolate issues.

After replacing the ring gear, and a worn drive coupler while I was at it, I'm back diagnosing the same no-start condition. Since I had to cut all the wires where the P.O. had butt-spliced them together, I bought a proper 9 pin plug and inline soldered all the wires to both sides of it, eliminating the crimp style butt connections. At least one of the wires had a bad connection, since it fell out of the butt connector while I had it apart!
So back to the no-start condition - at least one neutral safety switch cuts power to the starter relay. Could there be a second one - perhaps the one that connects the shifter cable to the outdrive cable? That one appears to go to ground when closed.
 
The neutral safety switch inhibits the starter, not the ignition, so if you have the cranks but won't start situation, its not a concern...

Like Noel said, there is a shift interrupter switch that DOES control the ignition...and it does 'ground out' the ignition when active...this likely needed attention when the distributor was swapped so give that close attention...

finally, with the ballast resistor in the primary side, it is 'normal' to have the starter solenoid's R terminal supplying current to the ignition coil (this only works during cranking, while the starter is engaged) ...assuming your starter solenoid has the R terminal...
 
finally, with the ballast resistor in the primary side, it is 'normal' to have the starter solenoid's R terminal supplying current to the ignition coil (this only works during cranking, while the starter is engaged) ...assuming your starter solenoid has the R terminal...

There is another wire adjacent to the coil but currently disconnected, probably along with the gray wire to the tach which reconnected. There is no wire to the second terminal on the starter solenoid, but there is also a wire coming out of the harness near the starter relay that looks like it had been snipped.

A little background - some previous troubleshooter had disconnected a bunch of wiring including to the 3 prong oil pressure sender, tach sensor wire on the coil and disconnected the fuel pump, which I reconnected. They had also cut the engine harness connector out and connected all wires with crimp-style butt connectors. I have since soldered proper harness connectors back in and shrink-wrapped all soldered wires.

But the engine had run since I had restored all the wiring, except for the mystery wire near the coil. About the only thing I had done was to neaten up some wiring and tape-wrap parts of the harness around the engine.
 
on the one 'near the starter relay' that was snipped, can you determine its color? same question for the disconnected one at the coil...
 
on the one 'near the starter relay' that was snipped, can you determine its color? same question for the disconnected one at the coil...

There's a heavy gage (#10) yellow-red coming out of the harness at yhe starter relay which should be to the relay to energize it. But theres a lighter gage (#12?) Coming out of the harness connected to the relay to energize it. The spare wire at the coil has been identified as the wire going to the shift interruptor. I plan to leave that disconnected til i get it running but before I put it in the water.

The Mallory 609 ignition module tested bad - confirmed by a tech at Mallory. Im waiting for FedEx to deliver my replacement right now.
 
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