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2015 9.9D Not completely broken in

W

William01

Advanced Contributor
BABJ1804689
9.9DK3SHC

Background: Previous owner purchased the engine new in 2015, started the break in procedure and realized he didn’t like the engine(too heavy and too fast) so he went back to his mid 70’s 2 stroke. His estimate was 5 engine hours. He claimed he started it about every 3 months or so replacing the fuel with fresh ethanol free premium fuel. He did not drain the carburetor or the fuel lines. The day I looked at it the temperature was well below 0C(32F) so we couldn’t get water to the engine, after looking over his shop and other equipment he owned I took a chance and bought the engine without hearing/seeing it run. The engine had been stored in a heated shop since new. About 2 weeks later the weather warmed to above 0C so I rigged it up with a barrel and started it up with some difficulty. First pull with choke on it sputtered, 2nd pull no choke sputtered, 3rd pull no choke no fire, 4th pull choke on sputter…. after the 12th pull it caught and ran. Tell tale has a strong flow. Let the engine warm up(10 min) Shut it off and restarted it a few times, one pull when warm, starts up no problem. Let the engine sit for an hour and it took 4 pulls to restart, no choke no start, 4th pull with choke started. Carb is now drained for the winter.
Ambient air temperature was 7C(44F)

Researching on this forum I believe it’s time for a carb cleaning even though the engine has 5 hours.

Service manual suggests I replace all carb o rings and the Carb gaskets and silencer gasket.
Do I really need to change out these parts with only 5 hours? I’ve been toying with the idea of trying a 2:1 ratio of fuel to Seafoam on a warm engine to see if I can clean the carb the lazy mans way. Thoughts?

Engine oil. Was wondering if I could finish breaking in the engine in with the OEM oil or should I replace the 7 year old oil with fresh oil? I plan on replacing oil and filter after break in(5 more hours) regardless.

Lower unit. Oil level good. Same question as engine oil?

Impeller is original but plan on changing it our sometime next summer. Tell tale is strong now.

We are in the dead of winter so nothing is going to happen except acquire the parts needed, closest Honda dealer is a 2 hour drive.

Any other suggestions?

Sorry for the long winded post but more information is better than not enough IMHO.
 
Is this an elec. start model? If not, my bet is the engine was sold with so few hours because they are tough to pull through. WAY tougher than a comparable 2 stroke.... I would get fresh oil and filter top and bottom. Same story on the impellor. Gasket and 0-rings are probably fine to be reused if you are careful. If it's running OK, not so sure I would pull the carb down, but I guess it wouldn't hurt anything. However, I WOULD make sure the choke is closing completely! That motor is no fun to pull through, so I would want everything as right as possible. Starting may become quicker when it's being used frequently. It's NOT just about hours. Time can be an even bigger factor. And last, I would never start this motor unless I was planning on using it/allowing it to reach full operating temp.
 
Yes it’s pull start. Not sure I’m understanding your comment “tough to pull through”. I’ve got a couple of small Honda engines powering a water pump and log splitter and the outboard is marginally harder pull than those little engines. Both those engines start first pull, the outboard not so much but as you pointed out with more use it might start easier. Looking at the oil capacities I will replace the oil in the L/U and engine, for what it cost and the piece of mind. Thank you for your time.
 
Lots of improvements made in engine oil in the last several years so changing it out is a good thing. Always replace the filter. You don't have to use Honda oil and filters but do use quality aftermarket stuff if you can get it. I think NAPA still has cross references that you can rely on to buy oil and filters and I've never had problems using their house brand replacements.

I also recommend replacing the impeller immediately. As Alan pointed out, time takes a toll and no more so than on those relatively delicate impeller vanes. They will have a tendency to "dry rot" and lose their flexibility. When that happens they will crack and break off possibly causing you more trouble than you care to face.

I have seen outboards produce "excellent" looking pee streams with the impeller only having 1 vane left. Just sayin'.

My advice about reusing orings and gaskets is don't do it. For the cost involved it's just not worth it if something doesn't go back together correctly. If you go into that carb and it doesn't run right afterwards, you wont want to be guessing "did I miss something or, is it one of those old orings? Some will call me crazy but I don't even reuse the gearcase drain and fill screw seals. New ones every time.

I agree with your idea about running some Sea Foam through it to see if things improve a bit. That and some good, long 3/4 to Full throttle runs should help her "clear her throat" some after sitting for so long.
Don't run it at the same rpm for any length of time. Vary the speed often and minimize idling when possible.

I have worked on gobs of 8D and 9.9 pull starts and I don't consider them to be difficult to turn over at all. These twins are about the easiest starting outboards I've come across if tuned up and in good condition. And that's comparing them with 2 strokes of similar power as well. Just my opinion.

Good luck.
 
Thanks for your input gentlemen. Figured I might get away with the original impeller but as you pointed out why take the risk. My engine code is BF 9.9DK3SHC BABJ1804689 the “C” is Canadian, my internet research (boats.net) only has an “A” for American. I called the people at boats.net and asked them if I would be safe ordering parts for a Canadian engine from a parts list for an American engine. They thought I’d be okay, the parts guy thought that MAYBE jets might be different due to different emission standards but wasn’t sure. His thoughts on oil filter, L/U drain/vent washers and impeller would be all the same and I tend to agree with him. Can anyone confirm his and my assumptions?

Again, Thanks for your input.
 
I have never differentiated between Cdn and USA parts on my 1999 130, I assume if they had any differences, they would have different part numbers.
 
NSDON said:
I have never differentiated between Cdn and USA parts on my 1999 130, I assume if they had any differences, they would have different part numbers.
Click to expand...

I called Honda Canada and the nice lady put me on hold and phoned a Parts Manager somewhere. He confirmed my suspicions that the same part numbers are used across North America. He did note that some parts are specifically designed for salt water engines. The salt water parts will work but I’d be paying a premium. I’ve personally never seen salt water parts but I’ve never looked.
 
William01
I was going to tell you, had my power not failed yesterday, that I also assumed that Canadian and American Honda parts would interchange. I have conversed with a few on this forum that had Honda Euro outboards and THOSE also seem to share the same parts as the American models.
I was not aware of parts specific to salt water. I have always assumed that outboard motors were intended to be used in either salt AND/OR fresh water. AND...they ARE used that way daily the world over! Why wouldn't they be?

I've been in my share of outboard shops and dealerships and have NEVER encountered an outboard, Honda or otherwise, being sold as "freshwater use only" or "recommended exclusively for salt water".
So, that's definitely a NEW ONE on me!

Thanks for the update.
 
Yea, her comments caught me off guard, the conversation was second hand. Very friendly lady, turns out she is 500km east of us working from home for Honda Canada. Usually call centres are located in larger cities, not this lady. Dab smack in the middle of the prairies in western Canada.
 
Replaced impeller and was surprised to find one vane backwards. Lower unit was in reverse when I pulled the lower unit off and remained in reverse until I spun the driveshaft clockwise to install the new impeller. At no point did I spin the driveshaft counterclockwise. I’m the first one to remove the water pump since manufacture. I find it hard to believe that this is how it came off the assembly line but I have no idea how else one vane would be pointing in a different direction than it’s “siblings”. Has anyone else seen this?

IMG_0507.jpg
 
Well, it looks like there's actually two vanes pointing the wrong way. But what's more important is that the pump housing looks to me as if it's been hot and has melted in some places. This would mean that the impeller cup will not be held firm in position and that movement will degrade pump efficiency and accelerate the damage that's already begun.

In my opinion this pump needs to be replaced with the complete pump kit that Honda offers. Well...that and a new drive key that they DON'T include in their "complete" kit! Look it over VERY carefully.

A pooped pump will take out your engine!

Good luck.
 
So I took it apart again not that there’s much to do at -16C. Upon further inspection I see some damage on the housing. Buddy swore that he never started the engine without being submerged in a bucket, my fault, I didn’t ask him how much water was in the bucket. The gasket looks in factory condition so I’m thinking in need to replace the base plate, o ring, impeller cup, impeller and impeller housing?(Honda’s parts webpage isn’t working) I’ve looked at the picture of the housing and my untrained eye can’t see any damage. What did you see? Below is a picture of the housing and there is no question it’s been heated but you wouldn’t see that in the picture. Many Thanks for pointing out what I missed.
It appears my picture won’t upload for some reason. I’ll work on that.
 
I found damaged / run dry water pump impeller on 2 motors ( 70 HP ) in 2019 -.----Worst I had seen in 50 years.----We have a lot of folks today with no technical knowledge.----A lot of novice boatmen.-----All they know is how to push a button.-----My opinion and that will not change
 
What you need is the EQUIVALENT to item 4 in the link below. That "kit" plus a new drive key. I emphasize equivalent because boats.net only lists "2007 and newer" as a reference and I don't want to get flamed because someone doesn't get delivered the correct parts for their later year model outboard.


https://www.boats.net/catalog/honda...to-babj-1899999/water-pump-vertical-shaft-s-l

I also recommend a new drive key (item 23 ) because, if you look closely, you will undoubtedly see that yours is worn/damaged.

Yes, it is difficult sometimes to see what's what with pictures posted here but, in this case, I've seen so many destroyed pumps the tell tale signs were just obvious to me.

I have pretty much ALWAYS endorsed replacing the entire pump kit UNLESS you were the last one to change it and know, for a fact, that it only has 2 seasons on it. If that's the case, getting away with just a fresh impeller WITH NEW DRIVE KEY is acceptable.

Yes, the whole kit is much more expensive....I get that. But starting a pump fresh will give you untold dividends in pump efficiency and engine cooling. It's one of those things that pays for itself over the course of 2 or 3 seasons. I also ALWAYS recommend a new drive key because they wear noticeably in most cases.

Good luck.
 
Many Thanks, I have no problem buying a new kit. The impeller cover(part #5)isn’t included in the kit, should it be replaced?
 
racerone said:
I found damaged / run dry water pump impeller on 2 motors ( 70 HP ) in 2019 -.----Worst I had seen in 50 years.----We have a lot of folks today with no technical knowledge.----A lot of novice boatmen.-----All they know is how to push a button.-----My opinion and that will not change
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
Yes, I didn't catch that. The cover is bound to be damaged in this case and it's crucial to pump sealing and operation. Sorry, It's been awhile. Glad you sorted it out.

I also notice that the impeller isn't listed as part of item 4???
Does it come with the kit you found? If not, you'll want to add that of course! Honda does wierd things like this with some of their kits that leave out items that really SHOULD be included.

Be sure to smear plenty of marine grease on the cover, the impeller and the inside of the cup during reassembly. .

Good luck.
 
jgmo said:
Yes, I didn't catch that. The cover is bound to be damaged in this case and it's crucial to pump sealing and operation. Sorry, It's been awhile. Glad you sorted it out.

I also notice that the impeller isn't listed as part of item 4???
Does it come with the kit you found? If not, you'll want to add that of course! Honda does wierd things like this with some of their kits that leave out items that really SHOULD be included.

Be sure to smear plenty of marine grease on the cover, the impeller and the inside of the cup during reassembly. .

Good luck.
Click to expand...

https://www.boats.net/catalog/honda...abj-1800001-to-babj-1899999/pump-impeller-kit

Kit even comes with new bolts. Thanks again for your eagle eyes, potentially saved me a lot of grief down the road.
 
Well, even a blind squirrel finds a nut ever now n agin;)

Glad I could help and that you caught it before any real damage was done to your upcoming season.
 
Is there any reason why I can’t or shouldn’t use Quicksilver High Performance gear lubricant in this lower unit? 2015 BF 9.9D
 
Update: Changed entire water pump and engine oil/filter and lower unit oil. Ran a 2:1 ratio of fuel/Seafoam and let it sit for 72 hours. Started engine in a barrel, 2nd pull and she was running, huge improvement! Let it warm up, applied quarter throttle no issues. Installed on the boat for a sea test and I’m still having issues under load. Idle is fairly stable, will stall occasionally, from idle to 50% throttle it “burps” and isn’t running smoothly, once I get past the 50% throttle all the way to WOT no issues, runs smooth. So I’m thinking I have to give the carburetor a cleaning after all. When I ordered the water pump and filter I didn’t even think to order the orings and such for a rebuild so I’m going to try and salvage the orings and gaskets. The service manual recommends not to disturb the Pilot Screw and Limiter Cap unless necessary for carburetor repair.
Is cleaning considered a repair?
I’ve doing lots of research on this forum re cleaning carburetors for portable Honda but would welcome any guidance. The service manual doesn’t really differentiate between the high or low speed circuits.
I’ve run the engine for about an hour on the lake, varying the throttle. Is that long enough to “cleat it’s throat”?
Thanks for your time.
 
Well, the fact that it starts and idles well probably means that leaving the pilot screw unmolested will be ok. I personally wouldn't bother cleaning a carb without cleaning the idle passage but there are others that will certainly disagree.

The reason I think that way is my past experience with these carbs but also the fact that the idle circuit contributes to fuel delivery throughout the power range. A "little bit dirty" idle circuit isn't desireable to me at all.

I also wouldn't take the carb off, tear it apart and not use new orings, gaskets or seals. Again, I know it's done but I also know it can set up a "chasing your tail" situation.

If you're really interested in understanding the circuits you could buy the Honda Marine Carburetion Manual here:

https://publications.powerequipment.honda.com/marine

Look under "support materials"

Worth every penny to the diy'er AND pro that messes with ANY carburetor short of the quad barrel pumpers on V-8 engines. And, even then, it can help with undertanding basic concepts. "A good read" my fellow geeks would say.

I don't know if running it longer on a dose of Sea Foam
will do much good but you never know. Lot's of testimonials about how great that stuff works.

But Sea.Foam won't dig the "mud" from the accelerator pump feed channel and won't find the crack that can develop in the slow jet-set tube.

While I do think it probably needs a carb service for this symptom I wouldn't completely dismiss the possibility of a midrange misfire due to plugs fouling or even misadjusted valves. Both seem low on the probability scale but it happens.

Another way to go would be to simply bolt up a new carb. By the time you buy carb spray, a sonic cleaner, gasket set, the carb manual and have taken it apart two or three or ??? times and it still isn't right, the $180 or so doesn't sound too bad at all if what you REALLY want to do is just go fishin'!

Good luck.
 
Thank you for your reply. I phoned our closest Honda Marine dealer to price out a new carburetor. They have one in stock in Vancouver(Canada) $330 plus shipping, plus tax. If I order from the states, factoring in shipping, tax and currency exchange it will cost about $275 ASSUMING our border guys don’t add Duty which is always a crap shoot. If they add duty, which is likely since the country of manufacture is Japan, then I’ll be around the $300 mark out of the US. I’m retired and time isn’t really an issue so I think I’m going to give the cleaning a shot. I understand I may eventually have to bite the bullet and spend the $300 or so but to save potentially $300 it’s worth a try. Thanks again for your time, much appreciated.
 
Oh, well, my apologies. I had forgotten you live in Canada. I too am retired and recent political events have made it glaringly clear that I might "outlive my money" as they say.

But, if you do decide to clean the carb, I do urge you to buy at least the gasket set. Item 1 in the parts link below.

https://www.boats.net/catalog/honda...abj-1600001-to-babj-1699999/carburetor-manual

Barring that, try to locate an exact fit replacement oring to fit the top of the jet-set tube (item 15 in the link). That oring is vital to the proper operation of your carb and it's just not wise to try to get the old one.to reliably reseal.

I'm urging you to do that because it does sound to me that the slow jet tube is either dirty or damaged (they often crack up the side). You're going to have to remove it and very carefully (with a magnifying glass) inspect it. If it is cracked you'll have no choice but to replace it.
More importantly though, the very small drillings get minerals in them and the hole diameters "shrink". This is especially true of the passage that is drilled vertically at the top of the tube. It is hard to inspect and even harder to get clean.

These carbs were engineered to provide top engine performance while delivering incredible fuel savings. But, because of that, they are "finicky" about fuel quality and care. There are some very specific areas that need to be addressed to get them cleaned and working correctly.

Check in with me as you go and I will try to help if I can.

Good luck.
 
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