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Early 90's Force condemning synthetic oil.

timguy

Silver Medal Contributor
Force is shy on synthetics, lots of horror stories. I have used Amsoil 2 stroke for 45 years now. Not only in outboards but in weed eaters, saws, ice drills, and 2 stroke lawn mowers. It provides an extra measure of protection in case of overheating. It minimizes and virtually eliminates carbon development. This keeps exhaust passages and combustion chambers clear. Why is that good? In the case of many outboards and saws, too much back pressure causes richer running, loss of power, more toxic, polluting exhaust. Besides that, carbon development on piston rings can block lubrication, causing sticky rings and eventual scoring. Carbon is not good. It will cause blockages in the exhaust chambers and thus creating more heat....not beneficial. Besides that, carbon can increase compression beyond design parameters, causing hard starting and excessive wear. Carbon is created with use of petrol base oil when mixed in richer ratios in order to supply adequate lubrication. (nature of the beast". Amsoil use in place of petrol base oil will actually help eliminate some of the old carbon deposits. My 1965 Evinrude 6 hp Fisherman still runs like new after 46 years of use and nearly 4,000 hours of operation. I have used Amsoil 100;1 mixed at 1.5 to 2 oz. per gallon since 1975. I get 2 to 3 seasons of operation on a single set of J6C plugs. Probably could go longer, but plugs are only 2 bucks each. Force is simply unsure of synthetic and certainly never tested their motors with Amsoil. Another thing to consider, oil injection will over supply synthetics and thats not good either. Amsoil came out with a special injector 2 stroke which is actually not as good as the premix....you could call it "diluted". Injection systems, of course, can't recognize better quality oil and "overdose" it.
 

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For my 1967 Lawn Boy I just use whatever 2 stroke oil comes in VRO tanks of parts motors.-----It runs just fine.-----Oil topics usually leads to lots of discussion.
 
My 1965 Evinrude 6 hp Fisherman still runs like new after 46 years of use and nearly 4,000 hours of operation..
That is impressive, I didn’t think any 2-smoke lasted that long.
I have one of those, (1974 points model), in near new condition, looks like 4, or maybe 40 hours on it.
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For my 1967 Lawn Boy I just use whatever 2 stroke oil comes in VRO tanks of parts motors.-----It runs just fine.-----Oil topics usually leads to lots of discussion.
That is a fact. I once read (from the oil manufacturer literature), that opened 2-stroke oil was good for a year, & sealed bottles, up to 5 years, something about volatile ingredients evaporating.
Maybe I’ve been lucky, my 25 year old chainsaw runs with whatever has been handy, ( though not TCW-3).
Over the years there has been a tremendous amount of ink spent on 2 stroke oils, some of it marketing, some the EPA, some by chemical engineers, & a lot by personal preference.
That said, I believe the newer synthetics to be superior, especially for higher performance engines. However, if I lived 4 lifetimes I wouldn’t put the hours on that Tim does... and I happen to have about 5 gallons of mixed label TCW-3 that I picked up for almost free.
That will run my little 6, 8, and 9.9 for a loooonnnggg time. Do those 6hp actually burn any gas? I fished for 2 days & the tank had the same amount in it.
 
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Since you dug in the archives for that little tidbit hence the TCW 2 oil rating. To my knowledge Amsoil has never had a TCW Rating in those days. Any synthetic back in the 60s and 70s like Rooster tail out of texas or the original McCulloch 100-1 oils were SAE 30 synthetics for 2 strks. So nobody was recommending Synthetics at that time. And you are not running your 6 hp at 100-1 if you add 2 oz per gallon because 2.6 oz per gallon is 50-1.
 
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Right, I too raised an eyebrow when Al Amatuzio brought a case of 100:1 up to Dad's TV Station. Al said...."Go ahead, Fran, if you ruin your motor, I'll buy you a new one". Dad said...."Al, I don't WANT a new motor, I want to get back to the shack and cook dinner". "You know I got a crew of hungry fisherman". Al said: "We tested this oil at 200:1 and it still passed with flying colors". Well I wasn't sold either, we mixed 1.5 to 2 oz. per gallon in all the motors for years and years, until Evinrude Johnson claimed their motors should mix at 100:1. Since then, I've used 100:1 in almost everything, except the old stuff and chain saws, where I go 2 oz. per gallon. I really don't think there's a better authority on actual use of Amsoil 2 stroke oil, alive today....using it in a vast array of equipment, in a huge range of temperatures, over nearly 50 years....than who's talking to you now.
 
Right, I too raised an eyebrow when Al Amatuzio brought a case of 100:1 up to Dad's TV Station. Al said...."Go ahead, Fran, if you ruin your motor, I'll buy you a new one". Dad said...."Al, I don't WANT a new motor, I want to get back to the shack and cook dinner". "You know I got a crew of hungry fisherman". Al said: "We tested this oil at 200:1 and it still passed with flying colors". Well I wasn't sold either, we mixed 1.5 to 2 oz. per gallon in all the motors for years and years, until Evinrude Johnson claimed their motors should mix at 100:1. Since then, I've used 100:1 in almost everything, except the old stuff and chain saws, where I go 2 oz. per gallon. I really don't think there's a better authority on actual use of Amsoil 2 stroke oil, alive today....using it in a vast array of equipment, in a huge range of temperatures, over nearly 50 years....than who's talking to you now.
Yup a real legend.
 
Amsoil is by far the best oil.
I worked at the dealership.
Bought a new 1988 21ft. with twin 85hp Forces.
Did a HUGE amount of trolling and 3-4 months later the stbd. motor wouldn't start.
Did a compression test and found the middle cyl. had stuck rings.
The other motor, the comp wasn't right either.
Under warranty: the boss said you get to rebuild them yourself. No prob.

Oils: in 1988 the oils available were actually designed to carbon up the rings(too much ash in the oil)
Then they introduced TCW3 and I had NO problems until the salt water ate the transom mounts :(
Oh yea I had to re-ring them both twice until TCW3 was introduced.

At the dealership we had a LOT of motor replacements because of the oils that were used.
The people that were affected the most were people who used their boat a lot.
 
Amsoil is by far the best oil.
I worked at the dealership.
Bought a new 1988 21ft. with twin 85hp Forces.
Did a HUGE amount of trolling and 3-4 months later the stbd. motor wouldn't start.
Did a compression test and found the middle cyl. had stuck rings.
The other motor, the comp wasn't right either.
Under warranty: the boss said you get to rebuild them yourself. No prob.

Oils: in 1988 the oils available were actually designed to carbon up the rings(too much ash in the oil)
Then they introduced TCW3 and I had NO problems until the salt water ate the transom mounts :(
Oh yea I had to re-ring them both twice until TCW3 was introduced.

At the dealership we had a LOT of motor replacements because of the oils that were used.
The people that were affected the most were people who used their boat a lot.
What? What do you mean they were designed to carbon up the rings? Omc 3 cylinders weren't having to have new rings put in them? Yamahas were not getting carbon in the rings or Suzukis,Tohatsu or Mercury. So no I do not think they were designed to carbon rings up. And if you are going to use Amsoil in a motor that will see heavy usage they do NOT recommend 100-1 mix. Stop making Amsoil out to be this cure all it's not. And typical Tim you get 1/2 the truth with anything he says. That manual is probably from the early 80s not the 90s.
 
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Okaaay! The manual is a 1992 Force 70. Yes, you are right, Mr. Scott. For heavy duty use it certainly can be helpful to step up the ratio a bit. I use 64:1 or 2 oz. per gallon in my chain saws. Thats 100:1 pre mix Amsoil. With Saber, which is engineered for air cooled motors I go to 1.5 or 1.6 oz per gallon. Check this cylinder on my Stihl ms660 after 15 years of hard use, primarily dicing red and white oak. I will include the piston picture too.
 

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Here is the piston. Saw has used Amsoil it's entire life. I bought it new in the Philippines. It has no RPM limiter, fully adjustable jetting, less restrictive exhaust... and not legal for sale in USA. I love the saw with it's power and so very lightweight.
 

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