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power tilt problem

J

jimmyborisenko

New member
Greetings from the Yukon territory. I have a problem with my Honda 50 hp (around year 2000 or a little later). Long story, but my boat broke free and got beached in big waves. Gravel and sand was packed against the transom and motor shaft (the motor was not submerged). After rescuing and cleaning all gravel and sand I could see around lift motor, I raised the motor with the power tilt switch on the motor. Near the top, I heard a little crunch of grave, and it stopped. And now the power tilt (either on the motor or the shift lever) doesn't work. I think I overworked the lift motor briefly. My first thought is a blown fuse, but I can't find a fuse. Do you know if there is a fuse someplace in that system, and if so, where I would find it? And if not a fuse, any other suggestions? The lift motor was replaced a few years back. I think it was in good shape and working fine up until the crunch against some gravel, which is someplace I can't see.
Just wanted to add, I have power to the motor (the motor will start)
 
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There's just one fuse, and if the starter is working, pretty sure it's fine. Still, might be worth checking for sure. It's an easy one. On the front of the motor, near the top, above the starter relay. You should see a white cap not much bigger than the fuse. Remove the cap to expose the fuse. There's 3 wires leading to the tilt switch (both of them). The one on the motor is easiest to check. Follow the harness from the switch to the first set of connectors. That will be the easiest place to check. The white wire should have power. If so, when you short the white wire to the green or blue, the tilt motor should run. If not, follow the wires from the tilt motor up into the cowl to the first place they plug in. Remove them, and apply 12v power to them. Makes no difference positive or negative order. If hooked one way the motor goes up, reversed the other way the motor goes down. If the white wire has power, and the motor runs when you put 12v right to the motor 2 wire connector, it's most likely the relay is giving you the issue.
 
Alan Hicks said:
There's just one fuse, and if the starter is working, pretty sure it's fine. Still, might be worth checking for sure. It's an easy one. On the front of the motor, near the top, above the starter relay. You should see a white cap not much bigger than the fuse. Remove the cap to expose the fuse. There's 3 wires leading to the tilt switch (both of them). The one on the motor is easiest to check. Follow the harness from the switch to the first set of connectors. That will be the easiest place to check. The white wire should have power. If so, when you short the white wire to the green or blue, the tilt motor should run. If not, follow the wires from the tilt motor up into the cowl to the first place they plug in. Remove them, and apply 12v power to them. Makes no difference positive or negative order. If hooked one way the motor goes up, reversed the other way the motor goes down. If the white wire has power, and the motor runs when you put 12v right to the motor 2 wire connector, it's most likely the relay is giving you the issue.
Click to expand...

Wow, that's awesome. Thank you for the detailed description. I can follow that. I'm off shortly to check it out. I'll let you know how it goes. So just to check one thing, with your last statement. "If the white wire has power, and the motor runs when you put 12v to the motor...most likely relay...". So if the motor doesn't run in that situation, I should assume it's the motor itself, right?
Thanks again. Awesome help!
 
I may have skipped a step. When checking that white wire. If it has power, you should be able to short it to either of the other 2 (blue and green) wires (paper clip, jumper of some sort) and the tilt motor should run one way, then the other depending on which wires you have shorted. That's checking the switch it self. If the white has power, and the tilt works both ways depending on which is shorted, you have a bad tilt switch. Assuming the tilt motor doesn't run when the white wire is touched to the green or blue, then you trace the 2 wires coming from the motor. Do that test. If it works, then it's the relay most likely. Point being, if the motor and the switch both check out, it's the relay... Best of luck, -Al
 
Thank you again for your detailed explanation Al. So to my testing. The white wire does have power, but when I short it to the blue or green wires, the lift motor doesn't work. However, on my Honda, in the bottom of the engine housing and just forward of the tilt switch is a rectangular (approx 3"x2"x1") black part,which I believe is the power relay switch for the tilt (part # 38550-ZV5-8220-M2. I should say, I'm having trouble finding a good blow-up and parts list of my motor, but I'll keep searching). When I short the blue or green wire to the white, I hear a single click sound come from that part. Don't know what that means, if anything. And then, when I put 12v power (directly from the battery with jumper cables) to the two wires of the lift motor itself, I get nothing. I'm not exactly sure, but I would think then that my problem is the lift motor itself. I think when I last powered the engine up, I went to the maximum height (which I usually don't do), and like I said, I heard a little crunch of gravel. Perhaps that maxed out the motor, and burnt it out?
In the meantime, I guess I have to use the manual relief valve to lower my motor now. I have to use my boat, as it is my transportation to get to town, and my car (I live in the bush--no road to my home). And if I have to replace that lift motor, I think I have to remove (or at least raise) the whole engine, as the transom bracket has to be split to remove the lift motor. Is that correct, or is there another way around that? Poor design, I'd say. A job for winter I guess. Thanks again Al. I couldn't have deduced any of this without your expertise.
 
Yup, I think you've found your issue. Something worth trying maybe, is loosening that relief valve to unload the tilt motor, hook up your jumper cables again, and if/when nothing happens (again), have a heavy wrench or small hammer ready to give that tilt motor a tap or two (w/motor tilted up)..... Kinda like the old starter motor trick. Sometimes you can encourage a little more life out of that motor doing that (brushes sticking or something). The click you hear is the relay telling you that the wiring to it is good, and there's a good chance the relay is OK. You can confirm that by checking the relay side of the 2 wire connection leading to the tilt motor to see if there's power when you hear the click. You can swap the tilt motor by just removing one of the side brackets (I've done it), but it's much easier to have the motor hanging from a lift - especially if this motor is running in salt or brackish water, where you can plan on a struggle getting some of that to break loose. Yes, good winter project so there's no hurry/more patience available. Best of luck! -Al
 
Well, I'm delighted to tell you Al that I got the lift motor working! I did as you suggested, by hitting the motor when power was applied. It initially did nothing, and I gave up. But when I discovered how heavy that motor is to lift by hand, I tried again, and, as I figured the lift motor was screwed anyhow, I hit on it harder than I would have thought appropriate. It initially made a few uncharacteristic noises, and then just started working. What a huge relief! I can't thank you enough Al. I couldn't have done any of this without your expertise. I am extremely grateful Al. Thank you very much! I wish I could buy you one of our good Yukon beers. Or six. Have a great day Al.
 
Good idea to have a Honda shop manual for your outboard, you can get them off Honda’s eBay site. Buy only the Honda manual, not the selec or clymer, they are too generic.
 
Several years ago, I helped a friend change out the T/T motor on a 2000 Honda 50. My memory is a bit foggy, but it seems that there is a way to change out that motor without having to remove one of the mount brackets. I think I found the procedure when doing an Internet search. You may want to try that.

I recall that we used a step ladder to prop up and hold the engine in place while doing the work.
 
And yup, I'll be internet searching methods of getting that tilt motor changed. It's working now, but i can't say I trust it now. It might be starting to go. Thanks
 
Alan,

Yes, now that you pointed that out, that is what we did. It allows you to tilt up the motor high enough to get to the bolts holding the T/T motor in place.
 
Yes, that's worth looking at. With the tilt pin removed, the motor would still have to be supported and raised a bit I guess. And then it may be possible to get at the four screws holding the tilt motor on can be accessed from above perhaps. Or maybe that half of the transom plate would still have to be removed. Whatever, contemplation for later this winter. Thanks everyone.
 
With the motor fully up, the motor's center of gravity kind of goes over center. Good idea to support it (just cuz!) but I think it would stay there on it's own.

What we're talking about is disconnecting the wire to the pump, removing the upper and lower pivot bolts, and pulling the entire tilt assembly as a unit, making for some pretty easy service on any part of it....
 
FYI - The replacement T/T motor, PN 36120-ZV5-821, is $305.55 on www.boats.net. Which is about the cheapest your will find it.

However, the API equivalent is PT302NM. You can find it on all over the Internet for less than $80.00.

About 10 years ago I had to replace the T/T motor on my BF 225 while in a very remote area - the lower Outer Banks of NC. A local marine mechanic that was helping me looked at the old motor and opined that it looked like an API motor that's used on a lot of heavy outboards. So, we drove up to the local NAPA dealer, pulled out the API motor cross-reference book and found the API equivalent. Ordered it. It arrived the next day and installed it. Easy install. Only issue is that we had to switch the green and blue wires at the plug to make sure that the up on the switch, actually made the motor go up. That motor is still on my BF 225 after 10 years and about 1400 hours and still working great.

I suspect that Honda contracts with manufacturers like API to produce various parts for their engines, slap a Honda label on it, and double or triple the price.

Good luck on your replacement.
 
I get it now, Al, about removing the two pivot pins for the pump. And thanks for the link chalk man. I'll search for the best price. Here in northern Canada it;ll undoubtedly cost a bit more. Whatever, gotta get what I gotta get. And thanks again, all. I've sure learned a lot the last few days. Off to town tomorrow, now that the old gal is seaworthy again.
 
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