Want problems? Use ethanol!

1985 15 hp Johnson. This is a highly valued carburator. Why? It's basically all you need to make your 9.9 into a 15 hp. Can sell 'em used for over $200.

Be honest how long was that on sombodies shelf? and that carb is 88 or newer

Not sure, but the resort here on Fish L. (Hi-Banks), just gave me the motor. It had a scored cylinder from broken top land on lower piston. I wouldn't recommend ethanol to my worst enemy. Ethanol is directly responsible for the destruction of millions of outboards. I got a shop full of 'em. Go ahead and soak a fuel pump diaphragm in 20 percent ethanol for a month or two. See what you got after that.

C'Mon Man stop with the shtick already. I am pretty sure I put up a pic of a carb that I ran for a ton of hrs on ethanol in a whole post I did. Stop trying to pass off some motor that has been sitting for god knows how long and blame ethanol for it's demise. It is a resort motor any # of things kill rental motors! Millions of outboards really? And why are you running 20% ethanol states in the owners manual no more than 10%. And I have way older than 60 days soaking in ethanol.

I'll advise others....they can take it or leave it. Been in this game a long long time. Your one sharp tech....don't think I wanna cross ya. Yes the carb must have been changed at one time.....guess you know how resorts handle rentals too. It's obvious we'll never be friends, but you certainly have my respect.

timguy said:

I'll advise others....they can take it or leave it. Been in this game a long long time. Your one sharp tech....don't think I wanna cross ya. Yes the carb must have been changed at one time.....guess you know how resorts handle rentals too. It's obvious we'll never be friends, but you certainly have my respect.

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Dont get hurt feelings you knew I was going to dispute that. When I think of you and ethanol here is what comes to mind. A mouse(ethanol) running across the floor and a hysterical lady (you) on the table screaming it's going to get me.

Mr Scott....you are jumping to conclusions. True I don't like mice, they are extremely wasteful and destructive. Which reminds me of ETHANOL?

Remember John Denver and his ultralight crash? Also do you remember him storing fuel in tanks......actually hoarding fuel? Might be a long shot, but what do you think????

John Denver’s crash had nothing to do with poor/bad fuel. It had EVERYTHING to do with pilot error. The sad fact is, he mismanaged the problem.
I liked some of his music, & have no beefs against the man, but if you put emotion aside, read the NSTB report, he turned what should have been a minor problem into a total FUBAR.
His aircraft had at least two fuel tanks.
He ran one dry. (This results in the engine not producing power.). Notice I said “not producing power”, I didn’t say it stopped. The propeller windmilling will continue to rotate the engine.
He didn’t understand the fuel system. All he had to do was SWITCH over to a tank containing fuel, the engine would have come back to life, with no other action required.
That was mistake #1, however, that in itself should not have been fatal.
The aircraft does not fall out of the sky,(unless you totally F/U & aerodynamically stall the wing).
You have time, while gliding, looking for a spot to force land in case you don’t get it started again. Even my ride, a Boeing 777, at 800,000lb will glide 100 miles from cruise flight.
worst case scenario, (you don’t understand the fuel system), & don’t get the engine started. Suck it up, realize you are committed to a force landing, keep the bird gliding at a safe speed, pick a spot & put it down, UNDER CONTROL.
He didn’t do that. Panic set in, he crashed what was now a glider.
This was tragic accident, he should have walked away from the scenario. Every pilot is taught this exact scenario, during their first private pilot lessons,

Edchris177 said:

John Denver’s crash had nothing to do with poor/bad fuel. It had EVERYTHING to do with pilot error. The sad fact is, he mismanaged the problem.
I liked some of his music, & have no beefs against the man, but if you put emotion aside, read the NSTB report, he turned what should have been a minor problem into a total FUBAR.
His aircraft had at least two fuel tanks.
He ran one dry. (This results in the engine not producing power.). Notice I said “not producing power”, I didn’t say it stopped. The propeller windmilling will continue to rotate the engine.
He didn’t understand the fuel system. All he had to do was SWITCH over to a tank containing fuel, the engine would have come back to life, with no other action required.
That was mistake #1, however, that in itself should not have been fatal.
The aircraft does not fall out of the sky,(unless you totally F/U & aerodynamically stall the wing).
You have time, while gliding, looking for a spot to force land in case you don’t get it started again. Even my ride, a Boeing 777, at 800,000lb will glide 100 miles from cruise flight.
worst case scenario, (you don’t understand the fuel system), & don’t get the engine started. Suck it up, realize you are committed to a force landing, keep the bird gliding at a safe speed, pick a spot & put it down, UNDER CONTROL.
He didn’t do that. Panic set in, he crashed what was now a glider.
This was tragic accident, he should have walked away from the scenario. Every pilot is taught this exact scenario, during their first private pilot lessons,

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Give it up. Tim just wants to blame everything on ethanol. Motor fell off the boat must be ethanol that done it. Forgot to mix gas in oil ethanol done it. OOPs I hit a rock that damn ethanol again. OOPs ring broke on the motor that damned ethanol again. My aluminum boat motor has rust on it that damned ethanol again.

Great info. I am a pilot too. Only Cessna. Flew once in the cockpit of a 747 to Australia....back in the "good old days". This world is really F'd up now, for sure. Dad was a pilot, built his first plane from a Heathkit in 1938 at 16 years old. Got an Indian motorcycle motor to power it. He later sold it and the guy crashed but didn't get hurt too bad. Brother Dell pilot too, excellent
he was in the Air Force. Gone now, sad story. Thanks for your information. I never really studied John Denver's crash.....just thought about how he used to hoard fuel.
Mr. Scott, it is always a pleasure to hear from you. Your experience and knowledge is commendable, and you are a colorful contributor to the forum. Ethanol is always a hot spot for discussion. Personally, I detest the crap. I treasure old equipment, when kept functional and my goal is to educate those who share my passion. Certainly the choice is their own, but for me, the only ethanol around here is used in my son's pyrotechnics/rocket fuel production.

Hi All, new to the forum and not a boat owner but, I am a fuel guy and a chemist with an interest in this topic. So I hope you don't mind if I add a couple cents to the discussion hopefully without adding fuel to the fire. ;-)

Ethanol is a cheap octane booster but it's not ideal as a gasoline blendstock for several reasons:

1. The molecule contains 35% oxygen. This leans the fuel and reduces the energy content vs gasoline by 30%.
2. It is hygroscopic which means it has high water affinity. When E10 is exposed to water, ethanol will concentrate in the water phase. This reduces the octane in the gasoline and generates a water-ethanol mixture. If that water ethanol mixture gets in your engine, it will burn very hot and can destroy it. The sub-octane gasoline can also cause knocking in some engines and damage the pistons.
3. Ethanol is corrosive and will oxidize over time to acetic acid, which is very corrosive. This must be avoided to prevent metal corrosion.
4. Ethanol is a good solvent for plasticizers and it swells gaskets and hoses. This can cause fuel leaks over time and damage to elastomers.

Some of these problems can be engineered around with additives to reduce the risk of phase separation and metal corrosion. This requires addition of surfactants, corrosion inhibitors and biocides. Others, like over-leaning and lower fuel efficiency, cannot. The NMMA and DOE sponsored a study comparing E0 to E15 in marine engines. E15 ran a lot hotter and reduced the engine's lifetime significantly. You can read the study here: https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/52909.pdf

Most engine manufacturers recommend ethanol-free gasoline for these reasons. Can you run E10 in your engines? Sure, can you leave E10 in your tank and engine between seasons? if you add a good stabilizer package. Is it better to run ethanol-free gasoline in marine engines and seasonal off-road equipment? Most assuredly.

Thanks, pal....you just "bailed me out". My son has educated me much the same. He has confirmed all you wrote. Ethanol is an illegal additive to any fuel used in aviation, except model/scale aircraft.