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  1. #31

    Default Re: BF225 2003 malfunctioning

    Quote Originally Posted by Blacktimes View Post
    Yes, correct, but you can work it either way, either find the logic for pump activation or do a quick bypass and see what happens. From what I see on the attached, initial ECU gives a 3 sec HP run for self test and maybe priming purposes. Then main relay, sub relay, left hand, starter, also energizes HP sub relay, middle) via left hand diode, and after starter disengagement, HP sub relay, middle, continues to be energized by right hand sub relay, ECU, injector and ignition relay. The starter relay, which also affects the HP relay is also conditioned by the neutral switch. But if you have starter available, forget the neutral.

    Iīm starting to suspect that you hay have an ECU issue or ECU wiring issue.
    As service manual is saying High pressure fuel pump is controlled by CKP sensor and TDC sensors 1/2 I'm wondering whether ECU/ECM issue or one of these sensors failing might be more likely problem cause?

  2. #32

    Default Re: BF225 2003 malfunctioning

    Quote Originally Posted by Bmbf225 View Post
    As service manual is saying High pressure fuel pump is controlled by CKP sensor and TDC sensors 1/2 I'm wondering whether ECU/ECM issue or one of these sensors failing might be more likely problem cause?
    In general both bad CKP or TDC sensor seem to have symptoms that fit to how problem first time occurred and what is the situation after that

    CKP:
    - "The most common symptom associated with a bad or failing crankshaft position sensor is difficulty starting the vehicle"
    - "Another symptom commonly associated with a problematic crankshaft position sensor is intermittent stalling"

    TDC:
    - "If the TDC sensor is damaged, it will not send this information to the onboard computer. As a safety measure, the ECU will shut down the ignition system and you will be unable to start the motor. Depending on the vehicle, the engine will either not crank over or the engine will crank over but not produce a spark."

    Failing of both of these sensors should typically turn on MIL light, but that does not happen. Secondly I have a doubt that there might be issue with MIL light connection remembering years back some mechanic telling something about such - have to check this still.

    Anyway now having matching symptoms I suppose next steps is to make sensors and their wiring tested/measured. Perhaps CKP sensor being here the 1st suspect.

    After sensor tests/replacements ECM/ECU itself being the next thing to test/replace.

    Does this thinking make any sense? Also any opinions about probability of the failing component here (sensor or ECM/ECU problem)?

    ps. I do know that having engine connected to service terminal would be the must at the moment, but that possibility will be perhaps next year only

  3. #33

    Default Re: BF225 2003 malfunctioning

    Bmbf, old times were different and easier, I donīt mean to sound bad but with modern engines you need to help yourself to help you maintain these engines, no 4 light switch, no ECU reader... difficult, to say the least... you could find yourself just throwing parts at the engine, could be wiring, could be ECU, could be TDC, who knows? If you find Dr H. expensive, have you considered an alternative reader on eBay?

    I bought Dr H shortly after purchasing my boat, I saw the need and potential straight away. In the three years I have had my twin BF200īs I have saved A LOT of money and headaches.

  4. #34

    Default Re: BF225 2003 malfunctioning

    Quote Originally Posted by Blacktimes View Post
    Bmbf, old times were different and easier, I donīt mean to sound bad but with modern engines you need to help yourself to help you maintain these engines, no 4 light switch, no ECU reader... difficult, to say the least... you could find yourself just throwing parts at the engine, could be wiring, could be ECU, could be TDC, who knows? If you find Dr H. expensive, have you considered an alternative reader on eBay?

    I bought Dr H shortly after purchasing my boat, I saw the need and potential straight away. In the three years I have had my twin BF200īs I have saved A LOT of money and headaches.
    Could you please share any information/tips for acquiring Dr H or alternative reader? Would be very welcome and helpful.

  5. #35

    Default Re: BF225 2003 malfunctioning

    The official Dr H is part number 06395-YH0-000AH. I bought mine at BRPDiagnostics but it is available at other sites. Someone mentioned that newer kits have software that can only be registered by dealers ( I have not verified this). In any case, I have the old software and do not have this problem. I would write to whoever, prior to purchase, to confirm if this is true. If you do need the software, let me know, and I should be able to make it available. There are also aftermarket diagnostic tools, just do a search for something like Honda BF200 Diagnostic Tool or Honda Marine OBD-H01, make sure it is compatible and has the valid Honda connector.

    I started off with an aftermarket, but I needed to change the NMEA Instance Number as I have twins and Honda stupidly identifies all engines with the same IN (they could at least program a different IN on counter rotating engines). When I connected the engines to the plotter via NMEA 2000 it would only recognize one engine and the aftermarket tool was not able to do this, so I sold it and bought Dr H which solved my problem. The aftermarket unit, other than the IN change, was fine, and my problem was very specific, so you can buy one, they are valid for pulling codes, etc. Hope this helps.

  6. #36

    Default Re: BF225 2003 malfunctioning

    Found some picks close to my case in www.thehulltruth.com:

    #1: https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating...nda-bf225.html

    Dwain

    Senior Member


    Join Date: Nov 2005

    Location: London, Ontario, Canada

    Posts: 1,504

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    Received 21 Likes on 15 Posts






    I had a similar problem to yours and hope this is not it. Does your engine shut off when you turn the steering wheel? If you run your boat in a straight line it is probably okay. What happened in my case was when the original motor was installed all the wiring was put together in the black pipe. It turned out that the wires eventually fell apart and the tube was full of fuel. Costs me a small fortune as the wiring harness etc. had to be replaced.
    I also think there was a recall notice of some of the electrical a long time ago, perhaps check with Honda on this. Good luck

    ---> my engine cut-offs reoccured last summer exactly in the same place twice after sharp 90degree turn to right

    #2: https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating...ly-solved.html

    wildebeest

    Admirals Club


    Join Date: Sep 2018

    Posts: 47

    Likes: 2

    Received 14 Likes on 9 Posts






    Quote:

    Originally Posted by easonbk

    Reel - When you had this issue with the motor turning off intermittently and you would get spin but no crank did you get the issue that you wouldn't get the initial BEEP when you turned the ignition to the first position? This is after the engine cut out unexpectedly and you would try to restart.



    Eason, I'm dealing with the same problem now of no initial Beep and some other strange electric happenings in a Honda 225. Did you get yours resolved?

    I think it's a fault somewhere in the wiring harness between the front of the boat and the engine. I've been testing this one piece of the harness at a time and now believe it is a wire to the main relay (or the main relay itself).

    ---> As I remember right, after the first occurance I may have lost the beep (still have to test when beside the boat again)

    Anyway would these give a good reason to check more closely the "the wiring harness between the front of the boat and the engine"? What places exactly are exposed to these kind locations where wires eventually fell apart?

  7. #37

    Default Re: BF225 2003 malfunctioning

    As you probably saw on my reply on thehulltruth, my issue was the main relay so apparently different than yours since the main relay apparently didn't fix it. Sorry.

  8. #38

    Default Re: BF225 2003 malfunctioning

    Quote Originally Posted by wildebeest View Post
    As you probably saw on my reply on thehulltruth, my issue was the main relay so apparently different than yours since the main relay apparently didn't fix it. Sorry.
    Thanks for update. Yes, main relay renewal did not help in my case.

  9. #39

    Default Re: BF225 2003 malfunctioning

    Update to situation:

    Last year after clearing fault codes with paper clip method and after replacing LP and HP filters I did not have a chance to test run the boat and engine. Also the HP fuel pump is still directly feed from one of the 15A fuse because otherwise it is not getting feeded otherwise as some mysterious control is preventing it. Thus now in practice when key is turned to position one HP fuel pump starts running continuosly right away and no controls stops it after couple of seconds. Of course at the moment I do not use key position one at all but start the engine right away by turning key to position two when HP fuel pump may run as engine is started. Also earlier last year PGM main relay was replaced with no change to situation.

    Well finally two weeks ago I plugged Healtech OBD for Honda to engine and checked there was no fault codes. This is logical as codes were reset last year and the problem (engine cut off right from the drive with no alarm) was not reproduced after that.

    Also replaced the control cable from side mount remote control unit to engine with a new one to see that no cable issue is causing the problem. Situation remained the same.

    Thirdly I noticed that the alternator + engine light panel connector in boat's panel site was unplugged. I reconnected the connector and now also that should indicate if any problems occur. I assume that connector has been unplugged from the time i got the boat in 2012 as I remenber some service person back those days mentioned the panel lights seem not to be in use.

    Next I plugged Healtech OBD to engine and started test run riding boat back and forth for fo some 40 kilometers with more than 3000 prms. Also increased rpms trying to figure out if engine temperature changes may cause the problem. Engine worked just fine and problem was not reproduced.

    Then decided to ride my usual 60 kilometer trip and had Healtech OBD connected again all the way. Again engine worked fine. Only thing I noticed that somewhere in the midway there was a 1 second engine power cut or something but it continued to run nicely right after it without losing rpms or anything. Also in the laptop sctreen (running the Healtech OBD software) there was seen some quick flash (screen went to white and got back to normal right away also OBD software continued its normal operation) at the same time. As the laptop was running on its own battery I assume some signal loss from the service connector connection was causing that. That made me wonder whether that could point to some ECU internal fault as not any fault codes appeared in the OBD software.

    I will ride the same trip again next weekend and will again plug the OBD software in trying to reproduce the problem. Let's see how it goes...

    As a summary now if the engine will still run fine it makes me think the change of fuel filters (that were very old and dirty) now prevented the instant engine cut off. Anyway still the HP fuel pump control problem exists and it starts to seem more strongly like ECU may be the faulty part here. Only wondering could there be somehow a relation between the blocked fuel filters causing fuel feed interruption to engine and then the HP fuel pump control problem? Could ECU have been damaged somehow in such fuel interruption situation as all the problems initially started after the first engine stop last year?

  10. #40

    Default Re: BF225 2003 malfunctioning

    Thus no fault codes found for the reason what ECU would prevent start of the HP fuel pump in key position one. As also main relay was already replaced is there anything else that would signal ECM/ECU to not allow HOP full pump to start? I understand only ECU is controlling HP fuel pump sto start?

    Also could faulty alternator be involved here? If ECM/ECU is getting powered by alternator and alternator fails could it somehow have had damaged ECM/ECU when engine firts time died. Or are the other things that could damage ECM/ECU to not work all correct?

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