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1994 125 hp 2+2 hard shifting

S

Seanfish

Member
This is NOT the cable.

with cables disconnected it’s nearly impossible to shift by hand while spinning the prop. Specifically from fwd down to neutral and neutral to reverse

neutral to fwd is great
reverse to neutral is not perfect but acceptable

With cables connected, I feel like I’m going to break the throttle getting it in and out of gear. I know something is off, I do not know where I should be looking. First shake down on this new to me motor presented this issue and made docking well, interesting.

Also have a lean sneeze and die coming back down to idle...which is known idle jets in carbs, not terribly concerned with that as it’s an easy fix and should have no bearing on the ability to shift in/out of gear.

Disconnected cables to shift by hand to determine cable or motor side. It’s definitely motor side as what happens at throttle side repeats at motor with cables disconnected.
 
See if there is too much throttle cable preload against the idle stop screw. A properly adjusted idle stop will allow a piece of paper to drag tightly but not break the paper. If there is too much throttle cable preload it will cause the control box to bind while trying to shift because the box can't get back into the detent to allow it to shift smoothly. The sneeze is one or both of the top two carbs set too lean, back the screws out an 1/8 of turn or as needed to get rid of the sneeze and this will also help with cold start
 
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fitz73222 said:
See if there is too much throttle cable preload against the idle stop screw. A properly adjusted idle stop will allow a piece of paper to drag tightly but not break the paper. If there is too much throttle cable preload it will cause the control box to bind while trying to shift because the box can't get back into the detent to allow it to shift smoothly. The sneeze is one or both of the top two carbs set too lean, back the screws out an 1/8 of turn or as needed to get rid of the sneeze and this will also help with cold start
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thank you on the sneeze issue. I ran shot fuel through it when I first got it accidentally, so it’s just the top idle jets that I need to clean.

Can I drop the lower and see if I can shift that manually to determine motor or LU side? I’ve already eliminated the cable or control box as the issue as i can’t shift it manually while turning the prop with both shift and throttle cables fully disconnected. It should take some force, but not be impossible to accomplish.
 
Neutral to forward is spring loaded so it should shift very easily. To go from forward to neutral you have to overcome that spring tension in the clutch dog so more effort is required and you spin the propeller to shift into reverse with the same amount of effort. Have you checked the lower unit to see the condition of the gear oil and if any water, rust or metal particles are present?
 
fitz73222 said:
Neutral to forward is spring loaded so it should shift very easily. To go from forward to neutral you have to overcome that spring tension in the clutch dog so more effort is required and you spin the propeller to shift into reverse with the same amount of effort. Have you checked the lower unit to see the condition of the gear oil and if any water, rust or metal particles are present?
Click to expand...

Just checked took an oil sample yesterday....didnt drop it, or fully drain though since im going to need to do impeller and probably drop the LU

oil jet black, no metal shavings or particles on the screw or in the oil.

Thank you for explaining why one direction works far more easily than the other. I can't manually shift it at all while spinning the prop...i should be able to with a bit of force...... cable can shift it with way more force than it should take. Hoping it's something easy and stupid, but thinking it's not.
 
So drop the gearcase in neutral position and see if the bind is downstairs or upstairs. You can rotate the shift shaft on the gearcase to see if it will shift. Wrap a shop cloth around the shift shaft stub to prevent damge and grab it with vice grips. Clockwise rotation is to forward gear, counterclockwise to neutral and reverse. You feel the detent. See what it does, report back.
 
fitz73222 said:
So drop the gearcase in neutral position and see if the bind is downstairs or upstairs. You can rotate the shift shaft on the gearcase to see if it will shift. Wrap a shop cloth around the shift shaft stub to prevent damge and grab it with vice grips. Clockwise rotation is to forward gear, counterclockwise to neutral and reverse. You feel the detent. See what it does, report back.
Click to expand...

Ran out of daylight last night as I have a lot going on. Will do in the next few days or this weekend. Really wanted to run it this weekend to see if my heavy lean to port issue (prop torque) was corrected by adjusting the trim tab....on the last motor, tab had to go all the way to port side, I suspect this one will too. (my transom is drilled 1/2" offset to port rather than dead center or 1/4" starboard, exacerbating the issue. Non issue as transom will be replaced after summer during full rebuild.
 
Better to run it after you understand the shifting concern. Bummer about the off center mounting, I've never seen a trim tab correct a running list, just steering wheel torque. Look a balancing weight distribution in the boat to get it run true and level. Even moving a battery from one side to another can make a difference. I doubt it is propeller torque.
 
fitz73222 said:
Better to run it after you understand the shifting concern. Bummer about the off center mounting, I've never seen a trim tab correct a running list, just steering wheel torque. Look a balancing weight distribution in the boat to get it run true and level. Even moving a battery from one side to another can make a difference. I doubt it is propeller torque.
Click to expand...


Single engine cats are finicky with weight distribution and prop torque. Negative trim (I have a wedge), and correcting the steering torque tab will fix. 300lbs to starboard side did nothing the one time I ran it on this motor.

it’s getting a new transom, bulkheads, tanks under deck, new deck, etc. it’s a full tear down and rebuild.
 
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Reached my comfortable limitation with it this morning. I’ve sheared bolts before, it’s not a fun process, especially with limited room to work. This ones gonna goto the mechanic before I shear off the bolts holding it on. Labor charges account for that, I am not equipped to handle that situation should it occur.

couldnt break any of the 4 main ones free m, and I’m not going to force it without the right tools to handle that situation. Is what it is.

new plugs, water pump kit, carb rebuild, shift issue fix, lu oil, grease prop shaft. standard maintenance and one minor problem.
 
Figured give it one more shot with the cold snap this morning, hoping it shrunk the metal slightly. I was correct, free'd right up. Now I can drop the lower and see if its up top or down low and go from there.
 
update

I was never able to drop it. Put the bolts snugly back on and brought it in knowing it was beyond my capabilities.

Mechanic was able to drop it. Top end is great.

It’s in the lower... based on salt corrosion, this may or may not make sense. He said he thinks he can get it opened up, but cant guarantee it and if it comes to a point where it doesn’t make sense for either of us, new SEI unit gets bolted on.

mechanics words nearly verbatim, “I want to get paid and move on to the next guy, but if it doesn’t make sense for either of us, I’m going to give you a call”

guys been doing this for 37 years and mainly works on the motors no one else will touch (over 20yrs old), and knew my motor inside out without me saying a word. Coupled with his statements today given the time/money conundrum, this is the guy I want working on my motor.
 
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