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  1. #1
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    Default 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    I have 2 2000 130 outboards on my Glacier Bay catamaran. One suddenly decided it doesnít want to start anymore. Coughs snd sputters, runs for a couple seconds then dies. I have two engines and swapped a lot of parts. I hooked up a small portable tank with 3 gallons of fresh gas. I live in Florida and use her at least once a month in the keys. Sheís been out of the water about two months.

    new:
    spark plugs
    Oil and filter
    new gas from a separate 3 gallon portable tank
    new fuel filter. The small plastic one in the front of the engine.
    cleaned snd checked for thermostat. Opens at 70c

    swapped with my other engine:
    VSP tank. Drained a d swapped
    fuel pump on the back, cam driven
    the sensor above the thermostat
    the sensor on the exhaust above the VSP

    pulled off the intake shroud
    sprayed MAS cleaner inside intake

    so I did some winter work, topped off the tanks from 1/3 each and went to ramp. Starboard wonít turn over. Tries and dies.

    cylinder pressure. 150 140 190 200. 3 is the low cylinder.

    brand new plugs get dark with carbon after a day of cranking.

    yep. Thatís not good at all. But is it the cause of my woes?

    pretty sure each plug is firing. I pulled each after an attempt and all were warm, not quite hot. But they get dark with dry carbon. I soaked cylinders overnight with Quicksilver Power Tune. Got about 0-5 psi improvement. Not a lot.

    yes. The kill switch is in just baffled. One cylinder is low, but wonít start ? Clean gas. Good fuel pressure and brand new plugs. Friend thinks maybe an exhaust leak because the plugs got carbon covered so fast .

    any easy suggestions short of a blown gasket, cracked head or bad valve ? Seems where that a month ago we started so easy and now suddenly wonít start. Fuses are good. Tapped the relay box but donít know what those relays are for.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    Welcome to the forum, Jeff. Compression numbers are ugly. How do they compare with the other motor? Spark should jump nearly 1/2" with a white/blue "crackle". Remember when doing a compression on a four-stroke motor the throttle/intake has to be open enough to provide a good amount of air.
    Last edited by timguy; 01-19-2021 at 12:13 AM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    Sounds like a lack of spark to me. The fact that the plugs "get warm " means nothing. Engines are basically air compressors and compressing air creates a good deal of heat in the combustion chamber even if there's no fire.

    Pull a plug and ground the threads. With the plug wire hooked up spin the engine over and check for spark.

    You may want to check each cylinder this way.

    An inexpensive spark check tool is a good thing to have.

    As timeguyy said, your compression numbers are not good. A 15% difference between any two cylinders is cause for concern. Check compression with freshly charged battery that is in good condition for consistent rpm during cranking and make sure carbs are empty and throttle is held wide open.

    If fuel isn't drained from carbs it can wash down cylinder walls and affect your test results.

    If you do have spark but compression doesn't improve, you may want to check engine timing and valve adjustment.

    If you think cylinder walls were washed down with gas, squirt a bit of oil toward the upper portion of cylinder with the piston at the bottom of the stroke and recheck.

    Good luck.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    Look at the port side of the engine where the head mates to the block. How much of the head gasket has pushed out? Compare both engines... Post a picture.
    Chris
    Dockside Marine Services
    Jersey Shore.
    Mercruiser/Mercury Certified
    Let the insanity begin.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    Good to hear from you, jgmo, thanks, Chris....good advice, yes I have seen this happen too. When you check compression, please remove fuel supply....good reminder, saw a video on what can happen, if I find the link I will share it.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    All of you thanks so much. I really want to keep these engines. It’s a pride thing to take care of older stuff. Hate paying others to do what most of us learned in high school shop class.

    engine compressions.
    good. Bad
    1. 190 200
    2. 180 190
    3. 180 140
    4. 190 150

    cant find my spark tester. Will get one tonight and check those sparks

    forget a couple of things. The fuel was yellow and not as clean as I expected. I drained the VSP and filters and hooked up a portable tank with new fuel going straight into the engine.

    im also getting an alarm. Totally forgot. When I turn the key to on. After 5s I get a slow beeping alarm and check engine light. Another 5s later I get a solid water temp light.

    im baffled by this. She was running good just a month ago, then suddenly won’t start.

    My engine is fuel injected. No carbs. I’m not very familiar with the FI and front part of the engine.

    Is it possible this is all related to the original bad gas. And I’m running down other problems that are unrelated? I already swapped the VSP and high pressure pump. I just want to run down as many easy things before I go inside looking for exhaust leaks.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    The one with my thumb is the bad engine.

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    Looks like Chris nailed it! But he's the pro so I defer to his opinion.
    You may be right about the gas being "iffy". Did you run the other engine on it too?
    Sorry about the carb comments...I saw year 2000 and assumed without checking.

    I applaud you for your pride of ownership and care! Those engines look spotless!

    Hopefully you'll have this sorted out quickly with the help you're getting here.. I will shut up now and stand by for your SUCCESS report!

    Good luck.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff7599 View Post
    The one with my thumb is the bad engine.

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    The "Bad" engine is not as bad as the running engine.... Life is short for these.... When the gasket starts to move it is time to shop for new power.

    I would leak down the engine that will not run.... Just because you have some compression doesn't mean you have vacuum. Pull all the plugs when doing the leak down.
    Chris
    Dockside Marine Services
    Jersey Shore.
    Mercruiser/Mercury Certified
    Let the insanity begin.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    Thanks everyone. Good progress today. I got her to start. But still idles very rough. Today I disconnected the 3 nuts holding on the fuel rail. I cycled the ignition switch and confirmed the fuel injectors were not clogged. I then removed the bottom #4 injector from the rail and cycled the ignition a few times to purge out any old fuel.

    I checked the spark on all 4. All four showing good spark with a spark tester. Did it at night which really helped to the spark. I also ran the tester on the good engine. Good engine appeared to make a brighter light in the tester. Maybe I’m seeing things though.

    Im soaking the valves again tonight to clean any carbon and get that compression up.
    Two Key Points
    My friend offered to sell me an old 130 he had. We started it up and it ran rough. But it started. We did a compression check. 175 175 0 0 with terrible old plugs. She ran and started on two cylinders. Better than mine on all 4 ???

    My new spark plugs are still getting a lot of carbon soot. So I’m wondering if this problem is fuel, spark or air intake related. I’m going to remove and clean the injectors tomorrow.

    she’s idles very rough. Surging up and down in RPM. About 600-800 rpm.

    i feel like I’m going down rabbit holes. Multiple issues, but which is the main culprit. I still have that check engine light and flashing temp light. Still baffled by that.

    Which sensor or sensors will activate that temp light ?
    how do I pull a code on a check engine light? It’s not flashing any code. Just a solid check engine light

    sorry for the long emails. I’m learning so much about these engines. Never had to do any work on the beyond regular annual maintenance.

    Anyone have the shop manual in pdf or is it easier to buy it online ?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    Making progress
    she runs, but struggled to idle. But she is idling. At low idle she surges up and down.

    today I cleaned the IAC valve on the intake manifold and just below the yellow oil fill cap. There is a small wire strainer that was clogged on both engines. Very easy to remove and clean. Two bolts and unfasten the wire connector. Clean with MAF cleaner and blow it out with compressed air. pics below. Cleaning this will be part of annual maintenance

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    2000 Honda 130 outboards
    Glacier bay 2640 DC
    Florida Keys

  12. #12
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    Sort of makes you wonder why they build outboards with intake air filtration. Or, is that just me?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    Hi Jeff, here is a BF130 Workshop Maunual in PDF (free)
    https://www.feuerwehr-krems.at/Dokum...onda-BF130.pdf

    Bob

  14. #14

    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    The air idle controller is a common issue, they do need cleaning and may even get stuck, easy to swap between your motors.
    Old fuel... has to be really old before it won't run. I've run 6 month old fuel with no problems, and apparently we get crap fuel down here in New Zealand.
    I had a 130 for ten years, it had one low compression, you could hear it when it cranked, but it ran fine. I eventually pulled the head off and found a wrecked exhaust valve seat on number 3. All new valves and a new seat and off it went..PS valve train gear is the same as the 2.4 car engine, odyssey, nsx etc...

    If you use the warm up lever, can you get it to idle better?
    These heads and blocks were a bit prone to some cracks, the 2000 heads were subject to a recall I believe. Mine was a 2000, but the head was fine, did 1300 hrs when I sold it.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    Just lurking on this thread since I know nothing about the 130's. However, I've seen no mention of a valve adjustment. I know that on the bigger Hondas a valve adjustment will often clean up a rough idle rather dramatically.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  16. #16
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    Thanks everyone. All the ideas make sense. Iím making progress today. Really surprised what Iím learning on my own and whatís not really clear online. I hope Iím not spamming this board, but it may be helpful for the 10 of us that still have this generation motor.

    So I discovered today this motor does have 2 identical Temp Sensors. One above the thermostat and one on the right side near the top. Hiding behind the right side air manifold. Hard to remove. Had to cut my 19mm deep socket a little shorter to fit in their. Ok itís a 2Ē deep socket.

    So I learned that a bad temp sensor or disconnected sensor will cause the check engine light to come on. Reconnecting it wonít turn off the alarm until you turn off the power and it resets.

    I swapped both temp sensors from good engine to my bad. Bad engine still has a check engine light. Good engine with the sensors did not have an alarm. So now Iím down a rabbit hole. I have two good temp sensors, and the check engine light still sounds when turned to ON position. So now maybe the problem is the connections or wiring between the sensor and dashboard. FYI put an OHM meter on the cold sensor. 20k scale I think. And both were about 2.2 to 2.5.

    so. Todayís question. Would a bad or faulty signal from a temp sensor cause the engine to run too rich or too lean ? Iím still getting fouled carbon plugs. Iím starting to wonder if this temp sensor issue is/alarm is also causing the system to meter the wrong amount fuel at idle. All my filters are new. Gas is new from a portable tank, and new plugs with good spark on each.

    Also will DR H or HDS work on these 20 year old engines ? Friend thinks he knows a mechanic with Honda test equipment.
    2000 Honda 130 outboards
    Glacier bay 2640 DC
    Florida Keys

  17. #17
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    Bob. Thanks so much. Your shop manual got me going down the correct rabbit hole.

    I jumped the red Service Check Connector under the black ECM cover and it threw a bunch of codes.

    checked the manual
    3 slow disconnect MAP
    6 slow disconnected ECT
    7 slow disconnected Throttle Position Sensor
    i think the last one was 2L and 4 short which I couldn’t figure out.

    anyway manual says to check the voltage at each sensor. And guess what. 0 volts.
    the Temp and MAP should have 5 volts and they are all 0.

    so my ECM isn’t getting any sensor readings. That is why it’s hard to start and idles rough. That is why I have the check engine light and flashing temp light before I even crank it.

    now that fun part is what is causing all this. I will be checking for loose connections.

    anyone seen this before ? Fun part is where to start. There’s only a hundred plugs on on this motor and dashboard.

    I was checking sensors when I should have been testing the power going into them. Explains why swapping sensors between motors didn’t help and didn’t trigger the other motors alarm.
    Last edited by Jeff7599; 01-21-2021 at 12:12 PM.
    2000 Honda 130 outboards
    Glacier bay 2640 DC
    Florida Keys

  18. #18
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    Does anyone have experience with all the sensors having no voltage and a check engine light ?

    the shop manual is very good at explaining the pins and voltages, how to read codes etc.

    each sensor plug should read 5v. All of mine are 0 and my MIL light is flashing the code that all my sensors are offline. I’m baffled. I’ve been testing plugs and the 34 pin connector from the engine and don’t see any short.

    Pin 7 should be 5v out of the ECM. I’m having trouble getting to that pin on the ECM. Hopefully tomorrow.

    ive been doing lots of volt meter testing and can’t figure out why none of them have power. I even swapped out the ECM from the good engine. It could be a bad harness, but that seems unlikely.

    just a recap. Pulled her out of the water for a few weeks of work on the hull and motors. One motor wouldn’t start. Plugs would get fouled quickly and had a check engine light and water temp light before starting the engine.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    2000 Honda 130 outboards
    Glacier bay 2640 DC
    Florida Keys

  19. #19
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    The 5 volts is referred to as "reference voltage". ECT, IAT., MAP, TPS sensors are all on that voltage line (hope I didn't miss any). If only one sensor goes whacky, it can pull the voltage down for ALL the others.

    You are correct to look for the voltage at the computer but one technique would be to choose one sensor to unplug to check the 5 volt terminal with your meter. If the volts don't come up, then, leave your meter connected and unplug each of the other sensors, one at a time, to see if the 5 volts returns.

    If the voltage comes up when unplugging a particular sensor then you have located the bad component. If the voltage doesn't return when doing this, then you either have a problem on the wire, a connector issue for that wire or the computer isn't providing the volts.

    Good luck.

  20. #20

    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by big dave 68 View Post
    The air idle controller is a common issue, they do need cleaning and may even get stuck, easy to swap between your motors.
    Old fuel... has to be really old before it won't run. I've run 6 month old fuel with no problems, and apparently we get crap fuel down here in New Zealand.
    I had a 130 for ten years, it had one low compression, you could hear it when it cranked, but it ran fine. I eventually pulled the head off and found a wrecked exhaust valve seat on number 3. All new valves and a new seat and off it went..PS valve train gear is the same as the 2.4 car engine, odyssey, nsx etc...

    If you use the warm up lever, can you get it to idle better?
    These heads and blocks were a bit prone to some cracks, the 2000 heads were subject to a recall I believe. Mine was a 2000, but the head was fine, did 1300 hrs when I sold it.
    A wrecked exhaust valve seat is mentioned and replaced with a new seat . By the way the valve seat is machined in the cylinder head and they are not replaceable ?, you have to replace the complete cylinder head if the seat is wrecked i own a BF 130 and replaced it with a new head

  21. #21
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    Jgmo
    Thanks. Tried that today. Not getting 5v to any sensor so unplugged each to see if one was shorted or robbing the power. No luck. Even went so far as to unplug the entire harness. I moved to to my good motor. Ran out of time before I had to go to work. Maybe a bad harness somehow. I hope I’m on the right track. Still can’t get 5v to read on the harness at
    both temp sensors
    intake sensor
    throttle control position

    there is power to the other items on the harness such as the fuel injectors and oil sensor. Swapped ECm and no change. Resent the codes using the jumper then pressing the kill switch 5x in less then 20 seconds. 1 second each press. Then getting two beeps.

    tomorrow I’m gonna undo the harness from the good engine and move it over. It wasn’t really that hard. Local Honda mech gave me that advice for free. Takes about 20 minutes to remove with all the clips.
    2000 Honda 130 outboards
    Glacier bay 2640 DC
    Florida Keys

  22. #22

    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    You have to know if they are RTD,s or Thermistor sensors no voltage go through theses sensors they are NTC sensors as resistance goes down when temperature rises this will set the alarm off. and resistance increases when temp goes down. Although some manuals say check for 5v i think someone has made a mistake some where along the line. I will explain in simple terms what happens. The positive is already on the alarm the alarm is waiting for the negative to be connected to go off if the motor overheats the temp rises the resistance goes down the negative is then connected and the alarm will go off it works the same way as a ntc thermal sensor . i may be wrong but this how it works.
    Last edited by Tegweni; 01-23-2021 at 04:43 AM.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    Jeff,
    Sounds like a good plan to swap the harness. I hope that yields positive results.

    If the 5 volt reference wire is bad in the harness and you can't locate the break, you can avoid the expense of a new harness by doing what is called an "overlay" to effect a repair.

    Instead of disassembling the harness to replace that wire you simply cut the wire at both ends about 6 inches from the connectors and then overlay an appropriate sized wire on the harness and solder and heat shrink it to the connector portions that you cut out. Tape the resulting wire to the harness and make sure you guard against any chafing when you reinstall the harness.

    Before doing any of that though, check the connectors very carefully for good pin to socket fit. Often a socket can get spread open upon assembly and still make enough contact to work until one day it doesn't. Also, the pins can be bent in the same way and the same results can occur. That's why extreme care should be used when disconnecting and reconnecting wiring sockets. This is especially true for the ECM.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by jgmo; 01-23-2021 at 04:45 AM.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    Success. I swapped the harness and it is running great and no alarms. Don’t know how are why, but it was the harness not sending the 5v to any of the sensors. That ECM thought all the sensors were bad, and set off the MIL check engine light and the temp alarm. It showed codes for temp , ect, map disconnected.

    The strange this is what caused it. I guess somehow during the fuel filter or new plugs maybe a damaged that wire bundle.

    learning points
    Run new fuel on a portable tank
    check compression. As long as they are all above 120 it will run.
    check spark. Is each plug firing
    Disconnect the fuel rail. Then crank the engine. Do all 4 injectors spray fuel?
    pull the MIL codes first. Jump the red connect and read the flashing lights for a bad sensor.

    a bad sensor can easily cause the engine to idle rough or not at all. It’s looking at temp, throttle position and other parameters to meter and schedule fuel so a bad signal means incorrect fuel metering.

    Disconnect the sensor. Measure the voltage going into the sensor. Most have a 5v signal, the green wire is the ground. The shop manual has a very good flow chart for each MIL code and sensor. Will tell you which pins to measure voltage.

    don’t go throwing money at pumps and sensors until you have run through the basics. Just my humble opinion.

    Bobmech. I owe you big time for the shop manual. Having the mil codes, pin diagram and test flow chart was so important.
    2000 Honda 130 outboards
    Glacier bay 2640 DC
    Florida Keys

  25. #25
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    Hi Jeff
    The shop manual isn't mine, just one I found online some years ago.
    Glad you got it sorted.

    Bob

  26. #26

    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    Was there any visible damage to the harness? I had a similar issue in which I chased sensor voltage and resistance parameters that were all out of whack, only to find the harness melted in the mid-section. Everything was crossing over and making a mess of the numbers.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    I’m going to pull the bad harness apart tomorrow. I found the wiring schematic and see that 5 sensors all share a single ground wire from the ECM.

    Plug A33 SG is the ground for
    MAP
    throttle position
    temp overheat
    TA
    TE

    Time to pull that wire bundle apart and inspect that green wire. I need to check the other harness. I wonder if I can just run a new ground wire to those sensors and bypass the ECm or tap into it at the plug. Ground is ground right?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    2000 Honda 130 outboards
    Glacier bay 2640 DC
    Florida Keys

  28. #28

    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    How do they tap off to all the sensors, wired soldered together?, if so there could be a break right at the first tap off point. You could use a meter to test between that wire on the sensor plugs. I'm figuring it's broken between the first(closest) sensor and the ECU

  29. #29
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    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    Inside the wire harness are several crimps wires. Basically two three or even 4 wires are spliced. I took a picture. I fixed the ground wire A33 that serves as a negative for the sensors. That made all the check engine and alarms go away.

    then noticed the engine still idles rough. I began squeezing parts of the wire harness between the ECm and the intake and it would cause the engine to surge. So I unwrapped the entire harness and found another bad crimp. The wiring had turned black.

    This harness came from the “bad” engine. So now my good engine idles rough. Will probably need to buy a new harness. Will see how much I can fix by splicing in new wires. Then sealing them.

    this photo is the factory splice. Not mine. Their are many in there.



    Click image for larger version. 

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    2000 Honda 130 outboards
    Glacier bay 2640 DC
    Florida Keys

  30. #30

    Default Re: 2000 130 HP wonít start. Running out of ideas

    Not sure how much a new harness would cost, maybe it's cost effective with a new harness. Cant you get new wire and just cut off bad section and solder? Chasing bad ground is a pain but I'm glad that you're able to solve your issue.

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