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  1. #1

    Default Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    Really, how critical is it to use ethanol free gas versus ethanol. Here is the answer...

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    Where?

    Jeff

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    One click and I read that article , takes 3 minutes to read it.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    Here is our take,
    Just a opinion with a few internet myths attached...
    Pappys Sales and Service
    Owner and Factory Certified Technician
    Former racer KDBA (Kentucky Drag Boat Association)

  5. #5

    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    I have 9 gallons of gas sitting in my tank (which seems to happen every year) and all I do in the spring is add 3 more fresh gallons, check for water absorption or phase separation which I have never had - then go boating. Even before I knew that fuel was cut with ethanol all I would do is just launch the boat and go like many other boaters. My 45 yr. old Merc has original fuel lines and there's no sign of deterioration and they're not plugged so I guess I am lucky.
    Imagine the thousands of boats in marinas and slips that are just put away with no treatment and they are always on the water next year including a neighbor up north.

  6. #6
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    TX.
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quicksilver View Post
    I have 9 gallons of gas sitting in my tank (which seems to happen every year) and all I do in the spring is add 3 more fresh gallons, check for water absorption or phase separation which I have never had - then go boating. Even before I knew that fuel was cut with ethanol all I would do is just launch the boat and go like many other boaters. My 45 yr. old Merc has original fuel lines and there's no sign of deterioration and they're not plugged so I guess I am lucky.
    Imagine the thousands of boats in marinas and slips that are just put away with no treatment and they are always on the water next year including a neighbor up north.
    Every time I go by a Marina I think about what you said. No telling how long these boats sit there unattended, new worn off, or owners busy with work and don't have time or not using because they don't want to face what it would take to get it operating, or hull full of barnacles and don't want to go through the haul-out, cleaning and launching experience/expense.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    Honestly, over half of my repairs, whether it's an outboard, IO, inboard, small engine, collector car/truck......is ethanol related. I have been dealing with the stuff here in Minnesota since year 2000, when Minnesota became the first state to actively produce and promote it. Now then.....give me one good reason why the FAA will NOT ALLOW it's use in aircraft?

    https://generalaviationnews.com/2016...t-just-say-no/
    Last edited by timguy; 11-18-2020 at 10:09 AM. Reason: Add info

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    ..."Give me one good reason why the FAA will NOT ALLOW it's use in aircraft?"

    Ah, there obviously is not one! Though you rarely see this at an airport, an aviation tech always drains the water off the bottom of the tanks each time a plane lands.

    Jeff

    PS: That 'White Gook' at the bottom is what results when ethanol, gas, water and time do their thing. It will go right through water separators and will NOT burn.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    I am more curious about how Minnesota is 20 yrs behind the rest of the country as far as ethanol is concerned.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    Quote Originally Posted by fastjeff View Post
    ..."Give me one good reason why the FAA will NOT ALLOW it's use in aircraft?"

    Ah, there obviously is not one! Though you rarely see this at an airport, an aviation tech always drains the water off the bottom of the tanks each time a plane lands.

    Jeff

    PS: That 'White Gook' at the bottom is what results when ethanol, gas, water and time do their thing. It will go right through water separators and will NOT burn.
    Well sir, you just "nailed" the source of the tan chips/flakes/ semicircle geometry/pieces of tan crud that clog fuel lines to the engine (I have had it happen on both my 2002 engines after 10 years), and when the engine's internal fuel filter is clogged, impeding proper operation of the engine, dissecting it reveals it's clogged with this crud.

    I thank you for that picture.....worth a thousand words!

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    I don't remember the last time I tried to fly my boat? Anybody else?

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    Question is......how many pre 1986 outboards are you still going out in the bush with? I run nothing but these "old reliables".....can't risk ruining them with ethanol.....why? When I die, they're gonna bring big bucks in the auction. But.....Timmy might just keep one or two.....to remember his "Dad"......and take Raquel fishin'.
    Last edited by timguy; 11-22-2020 at 02:45 AM. Reason: Typo

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    you just "nailed" the source of the tan chips/flakes/ semicircle geometry/pieces of tan crud that clog fuel lines
    That is the liner from inside the fuel lines that has degraded...and E10 does not attract moisture from the air.
    Last edited by faztbullet; 11-22-2020 at 10:07 AM.
    Pappys Sales and Service
    Owner and Factory Certified Technician
    Former racer KDBA (Kentucky Drag Boat Association)

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    Quote Originally Posted by timguy View Post
    Question is......how many pre 1986 outboards are you still going out in the bush with? I run nothing but these "old reliables".....can't risk ruining them with ethanol.....why? When I die, they're gonna bring big bucks in the auction. But.....Timmy might just keep one or two.....to remember his "Dad"......and take Raquel fishin'.
    I have a garage full of pre 86 engines running e-10.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    You guys are better men than me....if you can keep em running on ethanol.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    I will let you in on my secret. First I mix the gas and oil together then I forget about it until the tank is empty and then I repeat. The only things of mine that get premium fuel are the tools that require higher octane. I don't have time to cry over ethanol.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    Well here's my problem, Mr. Scott. I can drain my fuel tanks for the winter here at home....the boats, integral tanks, and small portable outboard tanks. But up in Canada, with the 2 camps and 20 portable outboard tanks, an ATV, 2 pickup trucks, a DR mower, 3 push mowers, 2 motorcycles, 4 generators, 2 water pumps, 2 weed whackers, I have no way, just no way to manage all these things with fuel that fails so rapidly.
    Especially now....huge problem....they locked us out of Canada.
    If I had left ethanol in all this equipment, (we expected to go up first thing in May), ....all my stuff would need repair. Just don't have the time to risk with ethanol.
    Last edited by timguy; 11-22-2020 at 02:50 PM.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    What makes you think your straight gas will be any good?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    Oh, I forgot.....4 chain saws and a leaf blower.....and 3 snowmobiles.....all this, just at the 2 camps. Now let's start the list at home.....Ha! Forget it. Why should I argue?
    I LEAVE PURE GAS IN ALL this stuff. It lasts right in the equipment's fuel tanks for several years. If I don't like the smell of it, then I change it out.....but no need to worry about having to do carb kits, fuel lines, accelerator pumps, crankshaft seals.....why? Clear fuel doesn't have the destructive traits of ethanol....it just gets a sour smell and won't burn good anymore.....so I dump it on the brush fire. I have clear fuel that I hauled up in 5 and 10 gallon containers.....some 10 years ago, that's still sweet and volatile. I can't waste my time and efforts with ethanol. You guys are different....you can manage your stuff.....I'm an idiot. Can't manage all this stuff monthly....or even yearly. I'm too widespread, but I easily discover the destructive nature of ethanol. Got stuff in the Philippines too....now they are mandating ethanol too. I'm screwed. You should see my 1999 F150 Lariat...... It destroyed the entire fuel system. Cost me huge hardship. I got photos.....wanna see em?
    Last edited by timguy; 11-22-2020 at 03:46 PM.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    I run the synthetic fuel in all my hand held 2 stroke equipment...use it and put it away and will work the next time needed.
    Pappys Sales and Service
    Owner and Factory Certified Technician
    Former racer KDBA (Kentucky Drag Boat Association)

  21. #21

    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    Funny here in Florida, no marinas sell E10, Only in emergencies can the Coast Guard and Marine Patrol or any state boat run E10. It is mandatory that they run non-ethanol. I haven't had a fuel related issue in 10 years since I switched everything except daily drivers over to non eth. I too, have garage full of pre 86' outboards dating back to 1932 and they all run on non ethanol fuel. Go figure...

  22. #22

    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    Quote Originally Posted by faztbullet View Post
    I run the synthetic fuel in all my hand held 2 stroke equipment...use it and put it away and will work the next time needed.
    Yep, I run Stihl synthetic 50-1 fuel in all my Stihl saws, blowers and weed wackers, $35 a gallon at Ace hardware but it works and is guaranteed for 2 years.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    Quote Originally Posted by fitz73222 View Post
    Yep, I run Stihl synthetic 50-1 fuel in all my Stihl saws, blowers and weed wackers, $35 a gallon at Ace hardware but it works and is guaranteed for 2 years.
    Take a pic of the back of that can. Last time I looked at those cans it was 2 yrs if never opened and 90 days once opened.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    Quote Originally Posted by timguy View Post
    Oh, I forgot.....4 chain saws and a leaf blower.....and 3 snowmobiles.....all this, just at the 2 camps. Now let's start the list at home.....Ha! Forget it. Why should I argue?
    I LEAVE PURE GAS IN ALL this stuff. It lasts right in the equipment's fuel tanks for several years. If I don't like the smell of it, then I change it out.....but no need to worry about having to do carb kits, fuel lines, accelerator pumps, crankshaft seals.....why? Clear fuel doesn't have the destructive traits of ethanol....it just gets a sour smell and won't burn good anymore.....so I dump it on the brush fire. I have clear fuel that I hauled up in 5 and 10 gallon containers.....some 10 years ago, that's still sweet and volatile. I can't waste my time and efforts with ethanol. You guys are different....you can manage your stuff.....I'm an idiot. Can't manage all this stuff monthly....or even yearly. I'm too widespread, but I easily discover the destructive nature of ethanol. Got stuff in the Philippines too....now they are mandating ethanol too. I'm screwed. You should see my 1999 F150 Lariat...... It destroyed the entire fuel system. Cost me huge hardship. I got photos.....wanna see em?
    I want the fuel you run because in wi none of our fuel lasts more than a yr.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    Just opened up the fuel tank tonight on my 999 Olympic chain saw. It needs the chain oiler fixed, but I had robbed the bar off it for another saw. Somehow it got set down on the shop floor behind a stack of Chevy 6 cylinder blocks. Honestly.....I had LOST IT! .....5 YEARS NOW....LOST! Thankfully the fuel tank was full, with a 64:1 Amsoil mix, of course. Tomorrow I will post a picture of the fuel, displayed in a glass bottle, and a picture of the inside of the fuel tank. My shop sweats really bad in the spring and early summer, as the slab and all its contents retain the cold.....this fuel will amaze you.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    I have heard that ethanol is not the major issue, they also add toluene and other solvents to the fuel and this is what causes the damage.
    Maybe the govt. should make the oil companies post the "ingredients" of their fuel on the pumps - back in the old days there was a sign on the pumps that said the fuel contained lead for anti-knock purposes; the lead was even worse for outboards.
    Maybe the gas in the U.S. has more of the damaging additives.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    ANY oxygenated hydrocarbons are dangerous. Toluene, xylene are pure hydrocarbons, can be stored for decades, they are solvents and contain no hydroxyl groups and very resistant to reaction with water. Oxygenated hydrocarbons have a tendency to disassociate from their main molecule and further react with hydrogen to form water. Since petrol is full of hydrocarbons.....it has plenty of hydrogen to donate. Check out these molecular models. First ethanol......then methanol.....next water. If you look at pure hydrocarbons, they contain NO hydroxy groups......don't have time to post more molecular models.....but trust me.
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    Last edited by timguy; 11-22-2020 at 11:18 PM. Reason: Add photo

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    Here is plain old water.
    NOW CAN YOU SEE THE PROBLEM?????
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  29. #29
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    It's only a problem if you let it become a problem. Virtually all issues with ethanol enhanced fuels are directly linked to the operator.
    Practicing the ancient art of ren-ching

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Ethanol vs Ethanol Free?

    Ah....okay sir....I've already explained that I'm an idiot.....thought I'd present the chemistry part of it, but .......o well......my bad!
    Last edited by timguy; 11-23-2020 at 09:30 AM.

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