Logo

7.4L GSi MPI (open cooling) anyone got a cooling diagram, having trouble understanding flow?

carboncow

Contributing Member
First year winterizing the new long block. I've winterized before and have read 101 diagrams to have my bases covered but struggling to fully understand how the water flows from in to out of the engine.

It looks to go from...
freshwater pump to
fuel injection pump to
oil pump to
thermostat housing

From there I get a big confused on what the thermostat is opening flow from where to where.

The generic diagrams are proving to be useless to my brain as they don't seem to have my setup.
 
The open system (raw water cooled) T-stat housing also serves as a mixing chamber.
The sea water first enters the incoming seawater port.
From there, the engine circulating pump pulls in what it needs based on the thermostat’s open position.
The remaining portion, along with the tempered seawater, is then mixed and sent to the exhaust system.


Your OEM Service manual should suggest doing the following:
.... remove the plugs in the side of the engine block, and probe the drain holes.
.... remove the lower section of the large hose going to the circulating pump.
.... remove the rear plugs from each exhaust manifold.
.... by whatever means, drain all seawater from any fuel or oil coolers.

note: there may be additional measures that I have not mentioned.

.
 
The open system (raw water cooled) T-stat housing also serves as a mixing chamber.
The sea water first enters the incoming seawater port.
From there, the engine circulating pump pulls in what it needs based on the thermostat’s open position.
The remaining portion, along with the tempered seawater, is then mixed and sent to the exhaust system.


Your OEM Service manual should suggest doing the following:
.... remove the plugs in the side of the engine block, and probe the drain holes.
.... remove the lower section of the large hose going to the circulating pump.
.... remove the rear plugs from each exhaust manifold.
.... by whatever means, drain all seawater from any fuel or oil coolers.

note: there may be additional measures that I have not mentioned.

.

Thanks...helps a little. Still need to see a flow chart to see where everything is going.

From what I can tell the seawater enters the mixing chamber of the thermostat housing and the only thing that thermostat does is that over 140F it moves water to the exhaust manifolds...nothing else.

There is just enough difference here then my carb boats I want to make sure I'm understanding where each and every hose is going and those I might not be seeing. I have no OEM manual as we couldn't even determine the specific engine due to missing Volvo Penta ID plates on old block. We determined (from a parts shop in town) that is was the higher preformance GSi due to the injectors and he could tell from the unique manfiold...or so he said.
 
I’ll give you a more elaborate explanation in the morning. I’ll also take a look at your engine model number and cooling schematic.
 
I need your complete engine model number. The 7.4L GSI is incomplete.

Of the 7.4 GSI's that I did look at, all were fitted with Closed Cooling Systems.
 
.......................
carboncow said:
Thanks...helps a little. Still need to see a flow chart to see where everything is going.

From what I can tell the seawater enters the mixing chamber of the thermostat housing and the only thing that thermostat does is that over 140F it moves water to the exhaust manifolds...nothing else.
Not quite!
If your engine is Raw Water Cooled (an open system as you said), the actual thermostat doesn't come into play until the seawater (referred to as coolant at this point) reaches the prescribed temperature.
Once that occurs, the thermostat begins to open and allows coolant to return to the T-stat's mixing chamber.

The engine's circulating pump will push coolant into the cylinder block and cylinder heads on an "As Required" or "As Needed" basis that is determined by the thermostat's open position.

There will be a continuous supply of seawater to the T-stat housing.

There is just enough difference here then my carb boats I want to make sure I'm understanding where each and every hose is going and those I might not be seeing. I have no OEM manual as we couldn't even determine the specific engine due to missing Volvo Penta ID plates on old block.
Understood.
However, without the complete model number, I won't be able to find the correct cooling schematic.


We determined (from a parts shop in town) that is was the higher preformance GSi due to the injectors and he could tell from the unique manfiold...or so he said.
 
I need your complete engine model number. The 7.4L GSI is incomplete.

Of the 7.4 GSI's that I did look at, all were fitted with Closed Cooling Systems.

RM,

Regrettably not having the full model number on the engine (Volvo Penta #) has been a huge issue since getting this boat. It looked like the OEM engine to us but the plate was MIA. The owner of a respected Auto & Marine parts shop here on Lake Erie took one look at my photos of the intake and the 34lb injectors and said it was clearly a GSi (high output) engine...but again I'd like to believe him...but who knows w/o the model plate. We did determine the output of those injectors based on the numbers on them.

With that said I've added a drawing of my engine as I understand the water flow. The part that had me initially confused was we could only source a 140F thermostat (nobody sees a 160F) and I was told these were only on the closed cooling or or salt water...so more confusion. Then someone else said, "no" VP only had a 140F thermostat for this block so I'm going with that...

I took a look at the thermostat housing and saw that it appears to only open to allow the heated water to flow to the exchangers, nothing more.

I've drawn the engine and the hoses as I understand as they travel from...

Pickup to impeller pump to injector pump to oil exchanger into the thermostat housing. From there I only see the big water pump that dumps the block back into the thermostat housing and as mentioned when the thermostat is open it allows block water to travel to the exhaust manifolds. one other small hose travels from thermostat housing to the fuel injector and it gets constant flow but I'm not sure if it flows to or from the fuel pump.

The reason for my concern is I'm trying to do a full manual winterizing as I have the intake manifold and the injectors at a tech getting tested. I drained the block and exhaust manifold and pumped antifreeze through ever house until it came out somewhere making sure I got the fuel pump and oil cooler.

You can see what I'm a little nervous with my new long block and understanding the flow of this engine. I had more understanding of my Cruisaders and Mercruisers in the past.

engine cooling 2.jpeg

Would be great if someone could tell me I'm "on it" or I'm missing some cooling places for water to hide since I don't have the engine fully together to run and suck up antifreeze with muffs.
 
RM,

Regrettably not having the full model number on the engine (Volvo Penta #) has been a huge issue since getting this boat. It looked like the OEM engine to us but the plate was MIA. The owner of a respected Auto & Marine parts shop here on Lake Erie took one look at my photos of the intake and the 34lb injectors and said it was clearly a GSi (high output) engine...but again I'd like to believe him...but who knows w/o the model plate. We did determine the output of those injectors based on the numbers on them.

With that said I've added a drawing of my engine as I understand the water flow. The part that had me initially confused was we could only source a 140F thermostat (nobody sees a 160F) and I was told these were only on the closed cooling or or salt water...so more confusion. Then someone else said, "no" VP only had a 140F thermostat for this block so I'm going with that...

I took a look at the thermostat housing and saw that it appears to only open to allow the heated water to flow to the exchangers, nothing more.

I've drawn the engine and the hoses as I understand as they travel from...

Pickup to impeller pump to injector pump to oil exchanger into the thermostat housing. From there I only see the big water pump that dumps the block back into the thermostat housing and as mentioned when the thermostat is open it allows block water to travel to the exhaust manifolds. one other small hose travels from thermostat housing to the fuel injector and it gets constant flow but I'm not sure if it flows to or from the fuel pump.

The reason for my concern is I'm trying to do a full manual winterizing as I have the intake manifold and the injectors at a tech getting tested. I drained the block and exhaust manifold and pumped antifreeze through ever house until it came out somewhere making sure I got the fuel pump and oil cooler.

You can see what I'm a little nervous with my new long block and understanding the flow of this engine. I had more understanding of my Cruisaders and Mercruisers in the past.

View attachment 25444

Would be great if someone could tell me I'm "on it" or I'm missing some cooling places for water to hide since I don't have the engine fully together to run and suck up antifreeze with muffs.


I'd like to see us go back to the drawing board.
I'm a bit unclear as whether your engine is Raw Water cooled, or is fitted with a Closed Cooling System.

Look at the your image that I made a few changes to.


carboncow cooling system.jpg
 
Last edited:
By the way, your arrows leading from the Circulating pump to the T-stat housing are backwards.

The seawater that is being delivered to the T-stat housing is then drawn in by the Circulating pump.
Once there, the circulating pump forces the seawater into the cylinder block/heads.
The seawater (now referred to as "coolant") can only leave the cylinder block/heads by way of the thermostat's open position.
 
By the way, your arrows leading from the Circulating pump to the T-stat housing are backwards.

The seawater that is being delivered to the T-stat housing is then drawn in by the Circulating pump.
Once there, the circulating pump forces the seawater into the cylinder block/heads.
The seawater (now referred to as "coolant") can only leave the cylinder block/heads by way of the thermostat's open position.

Ah...good call on the bad arrows. I did know the circulating pump pushes into the block.

I guess I'm just rather surprised the engine can stay cool enough with the only place water exits are those smaller hoses on top of the thermostat housing. I thought there was way more flow going through the exchangers then that. I understand better now why you call that thermostat housing more of a mixing chamber.

I think I'm mostly squared away now and simply hoping I'm not missing anything important beyond getting antifreeze through the oil cooler and fuel pumps as well as pumps and blocks.
 
...........
Ah...good call on the bad arrows. I did know the circulating pump pushes into the block.
Yes, it draws in the coolant from the T-stat housing's mixing chamber.
From there, it pushes it into the cylinder block.


I guess I'm just rather surprised the engine can stay cool enough with the only place water exits are those smaller hoses on top of the thermostat housing.
The thermostat determines the amount of coolant that exits the cylinder block/heads.
The higher the engine heat, the greater the stat opens in order to maintain the desired engine temperature.

I thought there was way more flow going through the exchangers then that.
What exchangers?

I understand better now why you call that thermostat housing more of a mixing chamber.
It serves as both.
Here is an example only of a typical GM engine T-stat housing.
raw water cooling Tstat housing.jpg

I think I'm mostly squared away now and simply hoping I'm not missing anything important beyond getting antifreeze through the oil cooler and fuel pumps as well as pumps and blocks.

Ok.... now I'm confused again.
Antifreeze is used in a Closed Cooling System.
Are you talking about a Winterizing Procedure?
If so, take a few minutes and read my 2012 write-up regarding adding AF for winterizing a Raw Water Cooled Engine.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R3BD7X6QC3KCFR?ref=pf_vv_at_pdctrvw_srp
 
Thank you or that image...it's very much the same unit I have. I swore my GM blocked Mercruisers or Crusaders (I forget which one) had a slightly different design. Maybe another set of hoses going to the risers too?

Again, I just found it fascinating that the heads/blocks stay cool by the smaller hoses going out of the housing when the thermostat is open. I guess those two hoses can equal the pressures from the water coming in from the pumps. So when it needs to cool it obviously flows enough.

I am talking about winterizing and do use the term antifreeze as that what it's properties are. Heck I figured you called it simply "coolant" in a Closed Cooling System! But I do in fact think you are correct now that I think about cars...the coolants were always called antifreeze back in the day. I'm my day job I'm a pretty good stickler or proper word choice to best explain a process/procedure or troubleshoot. So I acknowledge I'm failing here somewhat with my word choices. All very educational and I appreciate your patience and corrections.

Ironically I have read your review of that Camco system many times in years past. I in fact have always been skeptical of people getting their thermostats properly open and after watching my marine mechanic friend...I've even been skeptical of him getting it right. He (and his lackey worker of the season) sometimes concern me they are getting the thermostat open properly to keep from dilution issues. Now he has a heated warehouse and I feel way more comfortable for a lot of reasons simply parking it there...but cannot this year with the new boat.

The more I read the more confident I got this winterizing correct. I throughly drained the block and manfolds, manually filled every hose and the block until the pink stuff comes out of houses and the drains. Then I closed up the blocks/manfolds and did more filling. I drained again to see how strong the color was...then added again and called it a day and started bugging you. I'm embarrassed to tell you how much pink stuff I went through this year!

Thx again.
 
How cold does it get where you are located? If it gets to zero or below it is
re commended to use not the pink -50 or purple -60 but the blue -100. Take a look at West Marines antifreeze guide. I use either the -100 or I mix up a 50/50 mix of Sierra propylene AF & water.
 
...................
Thank you or that image...it's very much the same unit I have. I swore my GM blocked Mercruisers or Crusaders (I forget which one) had a slightly different design. Maybe another set of hoses going to the risers too?
May we assume that you meant to say "Elbows"?

Again, I just found it fascinating that the heads/blocks stay cool by the smaller hoses going out of the housing when the thermostat is open.
Those two smaller hoses DO NOT feed coolant into the cylinder block/heads.

The Circulating pump's inlet port receives seawater directly from the T-stat housing's mixing chamber.
That mixing chamber is supplied by the seawater pump.
Once the Circulating pump receives seawater, it then pushes the seawater into the cylinder block/heads.
This is now what we can refer to as "coolant".
This coolant cannot leave the cylinder block/heads (other than via the small air bleed or small by-pass porting) until the thermostat says that it can.


I guess those two hoses can equal the pressures from the water coming in from the pumps.
So when it needs to cool it obviously flows enough.
When the seawater pump is working correctly, it will supply more than enough seawater to remove heat from the engine and the exhaust system.
Due to the thermostat's open position (while it maintains normal engine operating temperature), and due to the by-pass porting within the T-Stat housing, most all seawater is by-passing engine demands, and goes right on to the exhaust system.

If this was not the case, we would not be able to keep our exhaust systems cool.


I am talking about winterizing and do use the term antifreeze as that what it's properties are.
Heck I figured you called it simply "coolant" in a Closed Cooling System!
On a Raw Water Cooled marine engine, seawater (be it ocean water, river water or lake water) is drawn in by the seawater pump.
Once this water enters the engine, it can be referred to as "coolant"..... your call on that!


But I do in fact think you are correct now that I think about cars...the coolants were always called antifreeze back in the day.
In that case, it can be referred to as Anti-Freeze or Coolant.

I'm my day job I'm a pretty good stickler or proper word choice to best explain a process/procedure or troubleshoot. So I acknowledge I'm failing here somewhat with my word choices. All very educational and I appreciate your patience and corrections.
You are very welcome.

Ironically I have read your review of that Camco system many times in years past.
I in fact I have always been skeptical of people getting their thermostats properly open and after watching my marine mechanic friend...I've even been skeptical of him getting it right.
If he (your marine mechanic friend) is using the Camco kit, or something similar, he may not be understanding the risks.
Please read the write-up it again.
There was good reason for me taking the time to write it and post it.


He (and his lackey worker of the season) sometimes concern me they are getting the thermostat open properly to keep from dilution issues.
That is one of my KEY points.

The more I read the more confident I got this winterizing correct.
I thoroughly drained the block and manifolds,
That is a good start!
Don't forget the exhaust Elbows.
If you have Risers/Spacers, drain those also.


manually filled every hose and the block until the pink stuff comes out of houses and the drains.
That may offer you that "feel good feeling" if that's all you are after.

Then I closed up the blocks/manfolds and did more filling.
Drain the pink and leave it alone and dry.

I drained again to see how strong the color was...then added again and called it a day and started bugging you.
Again..... drain the pink and leave it alone and dry.

Just plain ole Air will not freeze expand and crack our expensive cast iron components.... never has and never will.
The alleged protection against rust scale (that Anti-Freeze provides), is gravely exaggerated.
Your system will develop more rust during the normal boating season than it could possibly acquire during the winter lay-up.

Again...... just plain ole Air will not freeze expand and crack our expensive cast iron components.... never has and never will.


I'm embarrassed to tell you how much pink stuff I went through this year!
I'm not surprised.
Several years ago, I put this image together.
It is a joke for those who are Hell Bent on using these winterizing kits while hoping that their thermostat opens enough to avoid dilution.


Have a laugh on me!

camco replacement 55 gal kit.png



.
 
Last edited:
Draining the elbows is new to me as I don't recall my other engines or this having a plug similar to the block ones but there are other port plugs on there. I believe they take a allen/hex wrench rather then a socket. Are one of these the key to draining the exhaust elbows?
 
............
Draining the elbows is new to me as I don't recall my other engines or this having a plug similar to the block ones but there are other port plugs on there.
If your exhaust system does NOT incorporate Risers/Spacers (between the Elbows and Manifolds), and if the Elbows are not ported (for a seawater supply), then that means that the Elbow-to-Manifold transfer ports are "open".
If open, that means that the Elbows are free to drain into the exhaust manifolds.
In other words, when the exhaust manifolds area drained, the Elbows can't help but to drain out also.

I believe they take a allen/hex wrench rather then a socket.
If the Elbows are fitted with pipe thread plugs (that would require a Hex Key wrench), they are likely not intended to be used as drain plugs.
(see above again)


Are one of these the key to draining the exhaust elbows?
See my above explanation.


I hope that makes sense to you!



.
 
Given that you've provided NO background and history on you boat/engine, I have a possible explanation...

1) You are not the original owner of this boat
2) The original ( or a random previous owner) improperly converted a (typically) partial Volvo FWC engine to raw water by just removing the H/E and replumbing....."creatively"

Suggestion... 7.4 blocks are 7.4 blocks... Look up the flow and parts for a MERC Raw water cooled engine ( I believe this was an option on some engines... I may be wrong) and buy whatever MERC parts you need to make it cool like a MERC ( which are well documented).... The raw water pump on the Volvo should flow enough.

RE: small ports to elbows and flow issues... On raw water cooled engines, the gasket between the manifold and elbow provides either some or all of the raw water overboard dump.... This depends on if you have either a "cold manifold" cooling system or a "warm manifold' cooling system. Nowhere is it written that you have to be brand loyal for a cooling system.... just so long as it has correct parts and routing for SOMEONES cooling system ( beware mix and match).
 
They are all plugged with pipe fittings and I also assumed those elbow just drain into the manifolds from what I can tell.

I had one photo of file I took from the rebuild and this is the the only plug that is't painted it and is somewhat accessible.

IMG_5539.JPG
 
Given that you've provided NO background and history on you boat/engine, I have a possible explanation...

1) You are not the original owner of this boat
2) The original ( or a random previous owner) improperly converted a (typically) partial Volvo FWC engine to raw water by just removing the H/E and replumbing....."creatively"

Suggestion... 7.4 blocks are 7.4 blocks... Look up the flow and parts for a MERC Raw water cooled engine ( I believe this was an option on some engines... I may be wrong) and buy whatever MERC parts you need to make it cool like a MERC ( which are well documented).... The raw water pump on the Volvo should flow enough.

RE: small ports to elbows and flow issues... On raw water cooled engines, the gasket between the manifold and elbow provides either some or all of the raw water overboard dump.... This depends on if you have either a "cold manifold" cooling system or a "warm manifold' cooling system. Nowhere is it written that you have to be brand loyal for a cooling system.... just so long as it has correct parts and routing for SOMEONES cooling system ( beware mix and match).

I see no evidence that the PO would have removed the FWC system...but I guess it's possible.

I've seen the 101 other cooling diagrams of mercs and others...and that is why I'm here. I've seen to many variables and my concern has todo with understanding additional cooling needs due to oil coolers, fuel inject and other bits and pieces I might be missing. This is seldom covered on all the general drawings out there. These more modern engines can be a bit unique with all the little bits but I do understand a GM big block is a GM big block. It's the little stuff that I might not know that are concerning with my inability to find specifics.
 
Oil coolers, PS steering coolers, etc., usually just downstream from the raw water pump.... then onto engine.

That is how this setup is. I didn't initially identify the PS Cooler as visible. Is it's design often built into the oil cooler too or separate water lines running to the power steering pump? Or do many designs not have water cooling for the PS pump?

I'm going to have todo a bit more digging on this today just so I fully understand all the systems.
 
...............
They are all plugged with pipe fittings and I also assumed those elbow just drain into the manifolds from what I can tell.
Like said earlier, if the transfer ports are open (and with NO Risers/Spacers), the Elbows will drain into the seawater area of the manifold ONLY when the manifolds themselves are being drained.

I see no evidence that the PO would have removed the FWC system...but I guess it's possible.
Again.... in my opinion, FWC is a misnomer..... had there been one, it would have been a closed cooling system.

I've seen the 101 other cooling diagrams of mercs and others...and that is why I'm here. I've seen too many variables and my concern has todo with understanding additional cooling needs due to oil coolers, fuel inject and other bits and pieces I might be missing. This is seldom covered on all the general drawings out there. These more modern engines can be a bit unique with all the little bits but I do understand a GM big block is a GM big block. It's the little stuff that I might not know that are concerning with my inability to find specifics.
Understood!

That is how this setup is. I didn't initially identify the PS Cooler as visible. Is it's design often built into the oil cooler too or separate water lines running to the power steering pump?
No seawater lines will run to the Power Assist pump itself.

Or do many designs not have water cooling for the PS pump?
The Power Assist pump's oil will be cooled via an "oil cooler".

I'm going to have to do a bit more digging on this today just so I fully understand all the systems.

The more detail that you can use to show us an "existing schematic", the better will be able to help you.
 
...............

Ricardo,

I spent time on the boat again this weekend studying every hose I can see. Being that my thermostat housing is identical to the GM one you shared and understanding that when it opens it only moves water to the exhaust manifolds it seems to me the attempt at winterizing via pulling water in through the pumps (muff method) would in fact work for my boat well. There is really no reason to have the thermostats open at all if they only dump water back into the manifolds which have already drained (as well as the blocks).

What do you see as a flaw in my Logic? Is it because it had no place to dump overboard until those are open or am I missing another place the raw water dumps into the manifolds?

I went back out there and pulled the plugs again and left them open for the winter as you suggested.

Oil cooling: I only saw the single long cooler under the port side manifold. I assumed this was for cooling the engine oil but can in fact be for the power steering, or both in some way? Or is there a chance that a small boat like mine (25ft Pursuit) doesn't even have/need a power steering cooler?

Looking at schematics of every 7.4L engine listed in the online parts diagrams from Volvo (there seems to be 7 types) they all show some type of little canister but I'm sure not seeing it!

2020-11-15_11-58-24.jpeg
 
..............
Ricardo,
I spent time on the boat again this weekend studying every hose I can see. Being that my thermostat housing is identical to the GM one you shared and understanding that when it opens it only moves water to the exhaust manifolds
The T-stat housing itself does not open.
The thermostat is what opens and allows tempered coolant to leave the engine and go to the T-stat housing's mixing chamber.

it seems to me the attempt at winterizing via pulling water in through the pumps (muff method) would in fact work for my boat well.
Please read my Amazon write-up.

There is really no reason to have the thermostats open at all if they only dump water back into the manifolds which have already drained (as well as the blocks).
What do you see as a flaw in my Logic?
Dilution is the enemy.

Is it because it had no place to dump overboard until those are open or am I missing another place the raw water dumps into the manifolds?
Carefully read my write-up.

I went back out there and pulled the plugs again and left them open for the winter as you suggested.
If all are open, and if all were probed, and if all water or antifreeze drained out, you will be OK.
That has been my primary point all along...... "just plain ole air will not freeze expand and crack our expensive cast iron components."

Oil cooling: I only saw the single long cooler under the port side manifold. I assumed this was for cooling the engine oil but can in fact be for the power steering, or both in some way?
There are double oil coolers.... one section may be for engine oil cooling, the other section may be for Power Assist steering fluid cooling.
I would not know unless I was to see it.


Or is there a chance that a small boat like mine (25ft Pursuit) doesn't even have/need a power steering cooler?
Looking at schematics of every 7.4L engine listed in the online parts diagrams from Volvo (there seems to be 7 types) they all show some type of little canister but I'm sure not seeing it!
Look to see if there is a GM style, belt driven, hydraulic pump mounted to the front of the engine.... just like what is shown in the schematic below.
The red arrow points to the fluid cooler.
Low pressure return fluid passes through that cooler.




View attachment 25519
 
Last edited:
Back
Top