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Bravo3 XR question

805HD

Regular Contributor
Recently rebuilt a bravo3 for a guy, once installed back on the boat I noticed it wouldn’t go into forward (throttle will not budge at all). Reverse and neutral are fine. Odd thing is, when I removed the rear cover off the drive to expose the “shift mechanism” the drive will shift into forward.

any ideas?

cant start the boat yet because of 8 year old gas that has yet to be drained.
 
I thought bravos had to be running to shift into and out of gear ?

if it shifts with the cover off then one would think the cover is hitting the linkage ?
 
You say it will shift into FWD, DOes it stay in forward or does the cone clutch move back on its own?

Dieter is correct. This type of shifting design typically needs to have the drive being driven-(engine running) to shift in or out of gear without putting a strain on the cable and linkage.
 
It has a cone clutch in the upper housing, like a Volvo-Penta. Superior design to the clash and bang Alpha Ones.

Jeff
 
It has a cone clutch in the upper housing, like a Volvo-Penta. Superior design to the clash and bang Alpha Ones.

Jeff

I dont know Jeff, The Alpha shifting has been around for a very long time! One would think if the cone clutch is so superior why doesnt Merc go that route for the Alpha?
 
Interesting... as far as binding goes, the only thing that’s touching the linkage is the large spring detent that sits in the cover.

it’s weird cause like I said, even with the cover on engine off I can get reverse and neutral. But when I go to push up into forward it will not budge.
 
You say it will shift into FWD, DOes it stay in forward or does the cone clutch move back on its own?

Dieter is correct. This type of shifting design typically needs to have the drive being driven-(engine running) to shift in or out of gear without putting a strain on the cable and linkage.

hey jack, with the cover on and the engine off I CAN NOT get forward. I can pull back from N to R and then back to N but when I go to push up into forward it will not budge. Weirdest thing.
 
hey jack, with the cover on and the engine off I CAN NOT get forward. I can pull back from N to R and then back to N but when I go to push up into forward it will not budge. Weirdest thing.

This is normal for a cone clutch system. The parts need to be spinning (engine running with drive attached) for it to work. This is also why the shift control and drive must be in neutral when removing or installing outdrive
 
This is normal for a cone clutch system. The parts need to be spinning (engine running with drive attached) for it to work. This is also why the shift control and drive must be in neutral when removing or installing outdrive

This did cross my mind, and it definitely makes sense but now I’m worried about reverse! Haha

guess I’ll worry about that when the boats actually running!
 
I dont know Jeff, The Alpha shifting has been around for a very long time! One would think if the cone clutch is so superior why doesnt Merc go that route for the Alpha?
Yeah everyone bags on the alpha due the clunk, but the two alpha drives and the two MC1 drives in my life over the last 40 years are relatively cheap and work for like 25 plus years with a couple of seals and impellers. Replacement cost on an alpha vs bravo or Volvo SX is a huge cost diff. For typical 21 ft and under bow rider alpha is great if your boat is bigger in weight and hp yes go for the bravo or sx They are better drives and cost follows suit. Good low cost drive for what it’s intended for..... when I win the lotto and get my 48 ft formula and 6 babes upfront, four in the back, and I have Dom Peringion (yes check my spelling) on tap maybe I’ll get a bravo iii ....
 
............... One would think if the cone clutch is so superior why doesnt Merc go that route for the Alpha?

The Cone Clutch system is far superior to that of the Dog Clutch system........ no question about it.
Plus, it is necessary in order to design a twin-counter-rotating-propeller lower gear unit, such as what Volvo Penta did back in 1983 with their Duo Prop drive.

Merc eventually gained the rights to use Volvo Penta's patented cone clutch design, allowing Merc to use it in their newly designed B drive.
The rights may not have included a re-design for the Merc A drive.... I don't know.

Hopefully Merc will eventually do away with the dog clutch system, and will be able to re-design the A drive as to incorporate a cone clutch system.

.

 
Rick you’re still eating too many Swedish fish :cool: ..I know the Volvo drives are so reliable that you made a living repairing them and finding nice workarounds like lapping the cones when they don’t grab anymore.

ok seriously the alpha needs no redesign for its intended purpose- lower hp entry level and low mid range boats 21 ft and less. Lots of very modern outboards still use this technology, like the Yamaha 50 hp 4 stroke on my brothers fishing boat. Absolutely beautiful piece of engineering and manufacturing,

There is no need to put a drive as beefy, costly, etc as a bravo or dual prop on your typical lake or bay bow rider . People want it to be affordable and reliable which the alpha does without wasting engineering And tooling dollars on a redesign.

A cone clutch also requires an engine mounted seater pump, which is in a lot of applications no easier to change than splitting the drive.

Hit something and destroy the drive a new OEM alpha is like $3200, a VP SX Or bravo I is $7 k , more for dual prop. Not that the more expensive and beefy cone clutch drive don’t have their place Just not needed on a 135-300 hp typical runabout .
 
I dont know Jeff, The Alpha shifting has been around for a very long time! One would think if the cone clutch is so superior why doesnt Merc go that route for the Alpha?

Cause Volvo had the patent on the cone clutch... additionally, the cone clutch is more expensive to make and Mercruiser never saw a production corner they didn't cut.
 
Cause Volvo had the patent on the cone clutch... additionally, the cone clutch is more expensive to make and Mercruiser never saw a production corner they didn't cut.

Volvo Penta no long makes a cone clutch drive. They are all clutch plates, they look almost the same as my old MX bikes.
 
..............
Rick you’re still eating too many Swedish fish :cool: ..
But I enjoy them!

I know the Volvo drives are so reliable that you made a living repairing them and finding nice workarounds like lapping the cones when they don’t grab anymore.
You may not be understanding the need for doing that...... plus, we don't lap a cone.
We lap the sliding sleeve's conical surface into it's respective gear cup.
The oiling groves can become contaminated with metallic residue.
The residue is removed from the oiling groves, and the surfaces are renewed via the lapping process.
By the way, this is done ONLY to the transmissions with the bronze sliding sleeves.


ok seriously the alpha needs no redesign for its intended purpose- lower hp entry level and low mid range boats 21 ft and less.
Understood!

Lots of very modern outboards still use this technology, like the Yamaha 50 hp 4 stroke on my brothers fishing boat. Absolutely beautiful piece of engineering and manufacturing.
Understood again.

There is no need to put a drive as beefy, costly, etc as a bravo or dual prop on your typical lake or bay bow rider .
People want it to be affordable and reliable which the alpha does without wasting engineering and tooling dollars on a redesign.
See *** below.

A cone clutch also requires an engine mounted seater pump, which is in a lot of applications no easier to change than splitting the drive.
If you are referring to a belt driven seawater pump, I would agree.
If we refer to the crankshaft seawater pump, I would disagree.

Hit something and destroy the drive a new OEM alpha is like $3200, a VP SX Or bravo I is $7 k , more for dual prop.
I assume that you meant; Duo Prop or BIII.

Not that the more expensive and beefy cone clutch drive don’t have their place Just not needed on a 135-300 hp typical runabout .
I would agree!
However, look at the issues with the SI, SA or ESA and the lower shift cable adjustment that the Dog Clutch drives brings with them.

Cause Volvo had the patent on the cone clutch...
Actually Bob, Volvo Penta's cone clutch patent pertains to their use of it in the Marine Stern Drive.
The cone clutch principle has been used for years and years in the machine shop industry as of 1889, long before the stern drive had been invented!

7ec389dd7e9b57892a26b949c6b1c281.png

cone-clutch1.jpg



additionally, the cone clutch is more expensive to make and Mercruiser never saw a production corner they didn't cut.
***

Ok, let's do our best to keep it civil and in a friendly manor.


.
 
Mercury with a extremely small division of Mercruiser, will not be redesigning the Alpha drive for a cone clutch.... The whole Sterndrive market is shrinking. Why do you think Volvo Penta now has controlling interest in Seven Marine?

As for the clutch vs the cone clutch.... The HD lowers on the HP outboards like the Sportmaster 5.44 gear case still use it.... And guess what, there failure rate is low even with JPO, unlike the Bravo with JPS.
 
Mercury with a extremely small division of Mercruiser, will not be redesigning the Alpha drive for a cone clutch.... The whole Sterndrive market is shrinking. Why do you think Volvo Penta now has controlling interest in Seven Marine?

As for the clutch vs the cone clutch.... The HD lowers on the HP outboards like the Sportmaster 5.44 gear case still use it.... And guess what, there failure rate is low even with JPO, unlike the Bravo with JPS.

https://tenor.com/view/hulk-hogan-mic-drop-wwe-raw-wrestling-gif-13776271
 
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