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Seeing a lot of torque steer on a Jonhson 90.. can anyone recommend a hydaulic steer kit that fits?

H

HarborRatt

New member
Torque steer on my Johnson 90 is excessive & the trim tab is already at its adjustment limit. Is there a preferred or recommended all-in-one hydraulic steering kit that will bolt on to this `82 johnson 90hp? (J90TLCNB) Fwiw, my cockpit area is small & the steering pump would ideally mount below the dash to keep the helm as far forward as possible. Thanks in advance!
 
That's odd you can't correct with tab. What is your boat? Have a picture? Best to size photos at under 1000k. Picture of tab position too?
 
Are you seeing the torque steer at the hole shot or constantly? My boat has a bunch under hard acceleration but very little to none when on plane and trimmed proplerly.
 
timguy said:
That's odd you can't correct with tab. What is your boat? Have a picture? Best to size photos at under 1000k. Picture of tab position too?
Click to expand...

82 Glastron SSV-167
1982 GLASTRON SSV-167.jpg
will get photo of trim tab position tonight & update.

Jay1234 said:
Are you seeing the torque steer at the hole shot or constantly? My boat has a bunch under hard acceleration but very little to none when on plane and trimmed proplerly.
Click to expand...

Both.

Boat pulls hard to starboard out of the hole and still pulls quite a bit on plane & at any speed.

Turns to port take muscle as its always pulling to starboard. It's not a pleasant piloting experience at all.

Letting go of the wheel at any speed, even for a microsecond, would be a major hazard & that's something I want to avoid, especially if others are at the helm.
 
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Must admit I am not familiar with the Hydrive brand, but safe to say manual hydrailic steering such as this is NOT power steering. It will not make the torque steer go away. It will still be hard to steer against the torque load. What it will do, however is lock the steering wherever is is whenever you stop turning the steering wheel. That removes the danger of suddenly going around in circles if your hands slip off the wheel. Again, I'm just assuming the Hydrive system has the lock feature.

Wanna know something else? I don't know of any hydraulic steering that is 100% efficient. That means there is slippage when steering against a high load. That slippage can be significant on some lesser efficient systems.

You might consider a NFB cable system. No Feedback means it locks. But does not eliminate torque.
 
fdrgator said:
Must admit I am not familiar with the Hydrive brand, but safe to say manual hydrailic steering such as this is NOT power steering. It will not make the torque steer go away. It will still be hard to steer against the torque load. What it will do, however is lock the steering wherever is is whenever you stop turning the steering wheel. That removes the danger of suddenly going around in circles if your hands slip off the wheel. Again, I'm just assuming the Hydrive system has the lock feature.

Wanna know something else? I don't know of any hydraulic steering that is 100% efficient. That means there is slippage when steering against a high load. That slippage can be significant on some lesser efficient systems.

You might consider a NFB cable system. No Feedback means it locks. But does not eliminate torque.
Click to expand...


Here's the video where Stu at Dangar Marine installs a hydrive unit on a Merc 90. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCBRSP47K8o
Its a long video, & he covers everything. the boat in the video behaves like mine out of the hole, and mine continues to pull to starboard while underway.

Here's a cheesy video covering the issue I'm having https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac_C0TWwYz8

Not really interested in "power steering" as it exists in the automotive world (e.g. steering assist), I just don't want torque steer from the motor putting feedback into the helm & creating an unsafe condition.

I wasnt aware of the NFB cable systems.. interesting & seems like the price approaches that of some of the lower end hydraulic systems...

I just want to make the boat safer and easier to operate & still interested to hear what hydraulic brands people have used and are recommending.
 
Explain which way you have adjusted the trim tab.-----If boat pulls to starboard then you have to move the trim tab more to starboard.
 
I watched the video and am favorably impressed with the Hy-Drive. For one thing, it does lock the steering, which was the major objective. For another thing, although I don't know how forcefully he was turning the wheel, slippage seems to be very minimal. As far as overcoming the torque load I'm not so sure I believe that one finger stuff.

Good luck with whatever you decide.
 
racerone said:
Explain which way you have adjusted the trim tab.-----If boat pulls to starboard then you have to move the trim tab more to starboard.
Click to expand...

To be clear, my trim setting is untouched since I bought the boat 2 months ago & I guess it is not at its full limit, rather its 2 notches away, nearly full to port.

Heres the pic:

Racerone, what you say seems counter intuitive, though I guess I hadn't really considered all of the forces at play here. After a lot of reading, now I think I understand why you're right.

I have some experience in aviation & what you say would counter traditional "trim" wisdom on an airplane. Lets say a jet or a twin engine airplane is out of trim and yawing to the left, you move the rudder trim surface the right to counteract that yaw. Single engine prop driven airplanes do suffer from torque steer & P-factor too, though I hadn't considered my problem from that perspective before now.

Now, with a better picture in my mind of the forces involved, I think I understand why we need to move the trim tab in same the direction as the torque steer... because that creates a larger surface area for the propwash to act against to correct the torque steer, pushing the motor in the opposite direction. Interesting...

Again, I haven't touched my trim tab, because I had assumed correcting a turn to starboard required trim adjust to port & my tab is already -mostly- to port.

Someone needs to do a 3d fluid flow simulation & post to youtube so people can better understand this phenomenon. There isn't much info out there on how this really works. Just lots of info saying "here's your trim tab, adjust it to correct torque steer", & offering no further guidance. (edit: Also now understanding modern outboards omit the trim tab and have asymmetrical lower unit cross sections designed to counteract the torque forces)

Before I throw down on a hydraulic or NFB kit, I will start by adjusting my trim tab about half the distance to full starboard from its current position & will report back next time I splash the boat.

Thanks for the help in getting my head wrapped around this issue!
 
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Yes, you need to move the trim tab toward the starboard to counteract the torque of the prop.

A 90HP should be fine with a single cable steering system. I would suggest a teleflex No Feedback steering system. I used this in a 140HP I had on a previous boat and it worked just fine: http://www.marineengine.com/parts/teleflex-marine-seastar-solutions/38.html

I have a SeaStar hydraulic steering system on my bass boat. I will say this system is extremely nice, i don't feel any steering torque, and the wheel turns very smooth: http://www.marineengine.com/parts/teleflex-marine-seastar-solutions/48.html
 
Attempting to give a layman's view of things. Do not confuse a trim tab with a rudder. Moving a rudder to the right turns the boat to the right. Moving a trim tab to the right exerts a sideways thrust on the aft end of the lower unit, pushing the lower unit to the left, which turns the boat to the left.
 
Thats pretty cool way to put it. So looking from the top its counterclockwise to turn boat counterclockwise.
 
fdrgator said:
Attempting to give a layman's view of things. Do not confuse a trim tab with a rudder. Moving a rudder to the right turns the boat to the right. Moving a trim tab to the right exerts a sideways thrust on the aft end of the lower unit, pushing the lower unit to the left, which turns the boat to the left.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is how I understand things now! It wasn't making sense at first, & glad to have a better understanding, with help from folks on this forum.. I've moved the trim tab to starboard as discussed & planning to splash the boat this weekend. Hopefully will have a resolution to the terrible torque steer I've been seeing up to now. If I see little or no improvements, I'll consider a NFB system, or possibly hydraulic.


Rwbutler said:
Were you aware that the tab on a c/r motor is concave the other way,but ajusted the same as a normal
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Maybe I'm missing something obvious.. apologies.. I see the concavity on the starboard side of my trim tab.... What's a C/R Motor?

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Side note... Have been venturing into open water on Lake Superior & been daydreaming about a RaspberryPi chartplotter system w/ a proper AIS transceiver, among other things!

Have done a lot of work already with a carbs, fuel-pump, primer solenoid, a wholesale & proper marine grade re-wire. Have added GPS, VHF, DSC, a 110w/MPPT Solar system & planning a few other things as mentioned.. Will put together a proper build thread with photos if folks are interested...


Thanks again to everyone!
 
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Hey folks. Was able to splash the boat yesterday and with the trim tab adjusted to starboard much of the torque steer issue has resolved. I really appreciate the guidance & enjoying a much less hazardous piloting experience.

Thanks again!
 
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