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HELP MAYDAY TOTALY GREEN Scallywag !

Yes Sir , it is an electric pre 78 I turned the engine by hand , it is not stuck, 10-4 on the cheap oil replacement and spray cyl.lube . I have what I believe is an auto chevy small block starter w/staggerd bolt pattern ,which i would like to use for initial startup , then as you suggested replace w/ marine unit ... but it appears that it doesnt mount correctly ? The bolts line up , but it doesnt fit flush on the bolt flange , and when actuated like that starter gear does not engage flywheel ring gear ? When you say coolant ,you mean fresh water ,correct ? I have the water barrel placed over the water intake above the prop , this should work the same as a set of " Muffs,"is that a correct assumption ? The boat has been in a very Dry arrid climate , and rust corrosion is most often always at a complete minimum on most projects we see here , very unlike some coastal regions ,i'm in GODS counttry WYOMING , so we get to boat for all 4 weeks of summer , haha,give or take a few days when it would pay to have a sailboat [ dare i say that to a powerboater ? } Thanks for your continued help BB
 
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Yes Sir , it is an electric pre 78 I turned the engine by hand , it is not stuck, 10-4 on the cheap oil replacement and spray cyl.lube .

I have what I believe is an auto chevy small block starter w/staggerd bolt pattern ,which i would like to use for initial startup , then as you suggested replace w/ marine unit ... but it appears that it doesnt mount correctly ? The bolts line up , but it doesnt fit flush on the bolt flange , and when actuated like that starter gear does not engage flywheel ring gear ?
The SBC used two flywheels.
One with a 153 tooth ring gear and one with a 168 tooth ring gear.
The staggered bolt pattern motor is for the 168.
The straight across bolt pattern motor is for the 153.
Make darn certain that the bolts are knurled (at the doweled area) and that they are of the correct length.

When you say coolant ,you mean fresh water ,correct ?
Once a liquid (E/G coolant, river/lake water or ocean water) enters the engine, it is considered to be "coolant".

I have the water barrel placed over the water intake above the prop , this should work the same as a set of " Muffs,"is that a correct assumption ?
Only if the seawater pump is working correctly.
A seawater pump impeller that has been sitting for many years, will very likely no longer work.
The material takes what we call a "set". This pertains to the 3 or 4 vanes that have been folded over against the impeller cam!
Once the set has occurred, they seldom work again.
 
The heads look like a pair , but I will Id ...the block looks like it would take a staggered mount or straight across starter bolt pattern , for the life of me I cant get that starter to bolt up ? I'm really curious if the nose cones are different between auto and OMC , Ive scouted a little , but havent got a definitive answer yet , meanwhile I'm looking at another virtually free boat a bayliner Capri , with an outboard ,with final drive issues ... but thats a whole other can of worms ! Thanx BB
 
Yes Sir , it is an electric pre 78 I turned the engine by hand , it is not stuck, 10-4 on the cheap oil replacement and spray cyl.lube . I have what I believe is an auto chevy small block starter w/staggerd bolt pattern ,which i would like to use for initial startup , then as you suggested replace w/ marine unit ... but it appears that it doesnt mount correctly ? The bolts line up , but it doesnt fit flush on the bolt flange , and when actuated like that starter gear does not engage flywheel ring gear ? When you say coolant ,you mean fresh water ,correct ? I have the water barrel placed over the water intake above the prop , this should work the same as a set of " Muffs,"is that a correct assumption ? The boat has been in a very Dry arrid climate , and rust corrosion is most often always at a complete minimum on most projects we see here , very unlike some coastal regions ,i'm in GODS counttry WYOMING , so we get to boat for all 4 weeks of summer , haha,give or take a few days when it would pay to have a sailboat [ dare i say that to a powerboater ? } Thanks for your continued help BB

I can't even understand what you're writing. You put question marks after your sentences as if you're asking a question rather than making a statement. Like "but it appears that it doesnt mount correctly?" Well? Does it or doesn't it mount correctly? If you've worked with cars, you'd know if it's mounted correctly if the starter is flush with the mounting pad. And if the bendix is engaging with the flywheel. Pretty simple.

Then you stated, "The bolts line up, but it doesnt fit flush on the bolt flange". What bolt flange is that? Chevy starters mount to the engine block on a pad. Is that the "flange" you're talking about? Or. does this OMC setup use a bellhousing that has a flange area where a starter bolts up like a Ford starter does?

Then you write, "and when actuated like that starter gear does not engage". Ok. So, am I to assume you tried actuating the starter with a battery? Are you saying taht when actuated, the bendix flys out but wont engage with the flywheel teeth?
 
I can't even understand what you're writing. You put question marks after your sentences as if you're asking a question rather than making a statement. Like "but it appears that it doesnt mount correctly?" Well? Does it or doesn't it mount correctly? If you've worked with cars, you'd know if it's mounted correctly if the starter is flush with the mounting pad. And if the bendix is engaging with the flywheel. Pretty simple.

Then you stated, "The bolts line up, but it doesnt fit flush on the bolt flange". What bolt flange is that? Chevy starters mount to the engine block on a pad. Is that the "flange" you're talking about? Or. does this OMC setup use a bellhousing that has a flange area where a starter bolts up like a Ford starter does?

Then you write, "and when actuated like that starter gear does not engage". Ok. So, am I to assume you tried actuating the starter with a battery? Are you saying taht when actuated, the bendix flys out but wont engage with the flywheel teeth?

Let's not judge lest thee be judged!

While Ben did make a few sentence structure and punctuation boo boos, I understood him and his questions.

As for the starter motor, I would need to know if he has an old school Bendix Drive starter motor, or a solenoid/lever action style starter motor.
Bendix Drive is one beast, the solenoid/lever action style is another.

I would also need to know the flywheel ring gear tooth count. GM used a 153 tooth and a 168 tooth.
Each starter motor is different with regarding to the nose housing and it's mounting bolt pattern.

By the way, bellhousing is an automotive term. In the marine world, this is a "flywheel cover".
By the way #2, this thread is about two months old, and Ben hasn't posted since 9-15!



I noticed that Ben is
in GOD'S country WYOMING, so he may be a snowmobiler.
I'll help a fellow snowmobiler any day!





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Let's not judge lest thee be judged!

While Ben did make a few sentence structure and punctuation boo boos, I understood him and his questions.

As for the starter motor, I would need to know if he has an old school Bendix Drive starter motor, or a solenoid/lever action style starter motor.
Bendix Drive is one beast, the solenoid/lever action style is another.

I would also need to know the flywheel ring gear tooth count. GM used a 153 tooth and a 168 tooth.
Each starter motor is different with regarding to the nose housing and it's mounting bolt pattern.

By the way, bellhousing is an automotive term. In the marine world, this is a "flywheel cover".
By the way #2, this thread is about two months old, and Ben hasn't posted since 9-15!



I noticed that Ben is
in GOD'S country WYOMING, so he may be a snowmobiler.
I'll help a fellow snowmobiler any day!





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Ricardo , Thank You for standing up for me ,I appreciate that !Yes , I'm still here , and yes I have a few of those too,[snowmobiles ] and like me they are antique , and they were given up for dead too! they now run nicely ,and cost me ZERO dollars , cause someone gave up on them too,and sent them to The" Orphanage for Unwanted Machines ,AKA " Where There's a Wheel, There's a Way " ranch-ette . Whilst the previous poster exposed my prose shortcoming...It's perhaps worse than that , my writing leaves alot to be desired ...,punctuation , etc. and I don't use spell check etc . I do humbly apologize for that ,but my editor is afraid to come to work due to a really bad strain of the flu ,that the CDC doesnt report anymore !
My KneeJerk reaction to the previous commentor was , why so passive aggresive here ? However, I'm a little leary of unleashing my ex-New Yorker sarchasm on this site or any other site , because I don't want to offend any sensitive Keyboard tuff guy's, and I've already got 1 strike against me here ! Back on subject however, I have the DB electric starter mounted to the " BLOCK " as stated by johnster . It fits perfectly and I anticipate should work as designed. I have mothballed the project because i'm lazy, and dont want to fill the drive and engine with water till the weather warms up , which , as you know ,may not be till next June ...no kidding .I want to test it but I don't want to run it dry , and I'm on "religious ' holiday that takes place in Wyoming every October ,AKA Elk hunting ! So i will patiently wait till the upcoming " Two weeks ' of summer in Wyoming around July haHa , before firing it up . What the hades , I can't use it anyway! I am anxious to hear her run .For now ,All is well ,and as repayment for your backing me up in the face of the Punctuation Police , there is a prime cut Elk backstrap steak with your name on it , if you ever pass thru here , unless of course you choose the Elk Italiano spaghetti that I'm renowned for making , or the Elk chili ...your choice! 1 down ,1 to go , and i still have 2 months to hunt ,and only 20 miles from home on national forest ground , But SHHH don't tell anyone about God's country , lest we get overpopulated , with blister free city slickers haha. Again I humbly apologize for my stream of consciousness writing style and my pathetic test scores in punctuation , I never really paid too much attention in english class , but boy do i know female anatomy and sarchasm ! [can I say that here ,QUESTION MARK ] All in fun so please world just lighten up , we could use it right about NOW !
 
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Ricardo , Thank You for standing up for me ,I appreciate that !
I was more so pointing out that there's no need to chastise a member as he did, especially after he misused the term Bendix..........

starter motor pinion drive types.jpg

.......... but you are welcome just the same!

Yes , I'm still here , and yes I have a few of those too,[snowmobiles ] and like me they are antique
I recently bought a new 850 Summit X, and I am very anxious to ride it.


Back on subject however, I have the DB electric starter mounted to the " BLOCK " as stated by johnster . It fits perfectly and I anticipate should work as designed.
Yes.... back on topic:

The SBC starter motor must be a match for the flywheel ring gear tooth count.
168 tooth requires the staggered (or off-set) bolt pattern.
153 tooth requires the straight across (parallel to crankshaft center) bolt pattern.

If you have the 153 tooth ring gear, and try to use the motor with the staggered bolt pattern, the pinion gear will never align with the ring gear.

Conversely, if you have the 168 tooth ring gear, and try to use the straight across bolt pattern motor, the nose housing will interfere with the flywheel.




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i agree , i try not to be too critical of the fine print and look at the overall message . I will try to stay on subject ,I did count the teeth as per suggestions ,and ordered the appropriate starter, i think it's all going to work out okay . If my ' old timers " disease doesnt get the best of me , i will post the results this summer ? [ there I go with the ? again ,sheesh ]
We have ALOT of killer snowmobiling here, I even have a little course in my back acerage , so if the ol yammer hammer breaks , I don't have to walk too far ! thanks again
 
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