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Volvo DP Cotrim Outdrive stock on Neutral.

GRACILIO88

New member
i have a Volvo DP Cotrim Outdive, on a 1989 Volvo penta 570A Engine ( 5.7 V8 Engine) . boat have been parked fo a little over a year with the outdrive in the up position the whole time. i perfromed all the engine maintinance and engine is running good, but the props are not engaiging into gear foward or reverse. i opened the outdive cover and shifter cable seen to be working good, it moves all the mechanism. i also checked the outdrive bellows and there is clean oil on the interior of the bellows . i also noticed some corruction on the reverved lock mechanism i cleaned lubricated and put back together but still props are stock on neutral. any ideas to what might be going on please help.
 
Drain the gear oil into a clean container (if it's clean, it can safely be reused).
Remove the shift mechanism.
Look to see if the shift shoe is broken.

You will need 3 new OEM O-rings.


.
 
Yes there is oil on bellows and is not engaging into gear foward or reverse. this saturday i plan on draining the outdrive oil and inspect if the shift shoe if is broken as remconeded above. but i dont thick this will solve my oil problem.
 
is the oil means that i have bad upper outdrive seals or was caused from being in the up posistion for so long ? if i am able to get in to gear it is safe to run it ?
 
Yes, you have a leak. Volvo drives in good shape are both pressure and vacuum tight... there should be NO oil leaks from anywhere. Doubt if oil level in drive, when up, reaches that high anyway (@ proper oil level).

Safe to put in gear and run... I'd say no. Need to inspect shift shoe to see if any pieces are missing....and in an ugly place. Expensive gears in the drive...
Shift shoe inspection is easy... 4 bolts.
Read VOLVO OEM shop manual for how to... Aftermarket manuals, IMHO, are worse than a total waste of money

Per RICARDO.... replace seals.
 
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This Weekend i did as recomened, Drained gear oil, it turned out to be dirty and with tiny metal fragments in it , i beliave they come from the shift shoe spring. i pulled the shift shoe out and noticed that the cone clutch had a minor scratch see attach picture. shoe looks in good shape in my openion see picture. i also noticed that spring holding the shift shoe was worn out see picture attach i beleive that metal fragments on oil came from this spring. i replaced the oil assembled everthing back, i tested after and tried to push on the shifter bracket to make up for the worn out spring but nothing it did not work. any ideas ? and once again thanks for all the help.
 

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  • METAL FRAGMENTS ON GEAR OIL  .jpg
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  • SCRATCH ON CONE CLUTCH .jpg
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  • SHIFT SHOE .jpg
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  • WORN OUT SHIFT SHOE SPRING .jpg
    WORN OUT SHIFT SHOE SPRING .jpg
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This Weekend i did as recomened, Drained gear oil, it turned out to be dirty and with tiny metal fragments in it , i beliave they come from the shift shoe spring.\
Very doubtful.

i pulled the shift shoe out and noticed that the cone clutch had a minor scratch see attach picture.
That is very normal.

shoe looks in good shape in my opinion see picture.
Yes!

i also noticed that spring holding the shift shoe was worn out see picture attach i beleive that metal fragments on oil came from this spring.
Again, very doubtful.

i replaced the oil assembled everthing back, i tested after and tried to push on the shifter bracket to make up for the worn out spring but nothing it did not work. any ideas ? and once again thanks for all the help.

The sliding sleeve (often confused as the cone clutch) ..................
s-l225.webp

............. has oiling groves around the circumference of both friction areas.
When/if metallic debris gets caught in these groves, and if the debris is large enough, the two surfaces are not able to generate enough friction for "lock-up".

If so, you will need to disassemble the transmission and clean out the oiling groves.
After that, and given that you have the bronze sliding sleeve, you will want "lap" the corresponding surfaces (i.e., sliding sleeve to gear cups).

fetch
 
Ricardo thank you. now to perform this work i need to completely disconect the outdrive from the boat to be able to slide the assembly up correct ? or can be perform just from the top ?
 
Before you do that.... With the shift cover off ( per pix of internals, "scratch on cone clutch") and engine off... rotate the props by hand .... see if the sliding sleeve (cone clutch) rotates making sure it is centered, i.e. not engaging either FWD or REV gear. ...
 
okay, just to make sure i understand, if the sliding sleeve is centrered it's supuse to rotates when turning the props by hand.
should i also do the same procedure pushing the sliding ssleeve up or down ?
 
...........
Ricardo thank you. now to perform this work i need to completely disconect the outdrive from the boat to be able to slide the assembly up correct ? or can be perform just from the top ?
We never remove an entire AQ series drive as a complete assembly.
We remove the transmission first, then the other components if necessary.

For what you are doing, you will remove the transmission only. (transmission = upper gear unit)

Then if you need to remove the remaining components, you do that after the transmission has been removed.
When going back together, you will do the reverse of that..... i.e., transmission last!


Before you do that.... With the shift cover off ( per pix of internals, "scratch on cone clutch") and engine off... rotate the props by hand .... see if the sliding sleeve (cone clutch) rotates making sure it is centered, i.e. not engaging either FWD or REV gear. ...
As per Bob, the sliding sleeve is supported by a centering or counter spring.
With the shift shoe removed, the sleeve should ride in the center of it's Up/Down travel.
However, this has zero to do with a not-engaging-into-gear scenario.


okay, just to make sure i understand, if the sliding sleeve is centrered
Yes, the centering/counter spring lifts the sleeve into what would be considered the middle or neutral position.

it's supuse to rotates when turning the props by hand.
Yes, the sliding sleeve, the steep spiral cut splined vertical shaft, the lower unit vertical shaft, the splined coupler, and both lower unit gears..... all rotate together.

should i also do the same procedure pushing the sliding ssleeve up or down ?
I'm not following you on that one!
 
re: "..However, this has zero to do with a not-engaging-into-gear scenario. .."


I thought it was likely that the OP's statement that it wasn't engaging was due to the boat not moving..
If the vertical drive shaft sheared, he would "see" the same "not-engage" symptom.
Rotating the prop and observing the sliding sleeve a no brainer test before he tears his tranny apart.
 
i plan on doing the the transmision cleaning over the weekend, i will do this test and record a video during the week. in the old gear oil i drained there was a good amount of metal fragments in it may be something did sheared.
 
........
re: "..However, this has zero to do with a not-engaging-into-gear scenario. .."


I thought it was likely that the OP's statement that it wasn't engaging was due to the boat not moving..
I did not get that impression from his comment. Perhaps I missed something!

If the vertical drive shaft sheared, he would "see" the same "not-engage" symptom.
Correct!

Rotating the prop and observing the sliding sleeve a no brainer test before he tears his tranny apart.
I would agree.

Gracilio88, between the transmission vertical shaft and the lower unit vertical shaft, is a spline coupler.
In the center of this coupler is a slightly cut grove that is to serve as a shear point.

s-l225.webp



If you were to hold the sliding sleeve from rotating, are you able to turn the prop shaft in either direction?

If no..... then the spline coupler that joins the two vertical shafts is in tact.
If yes.... then either the coupler has sheared, or the lower unit vertical shaft has sheared off.




i plan on doing the the transmision cleaning over the weekend, i will do this test and record a video during the week. in the old gear oil i drained there was a good amount of metal fragments in it may be something did sheared.

Typically, a sheared spline coupler does not leave any metallic debris behind.
However, a sheared vertical shaft may leave some metallic debris behind.

By the way, you will need an old spline coupler in order to make the tool for supporting the transmission while you disassemble it.

The coupler will be welded to a short piece of angle iron.
This tool will be clamped in your work bench vice as to support the transmission and allow you to remove the top LH nut.

Volvo Penta fixture for holding transmission or lower.jpg


Special notes:

The top nut is LH thread.
Inventory all shims and their respective locations. They must go back where they were.
All O-rings must be replaced.... OEM is best!
Use heat at the thread inserts for the 4 main drive gear bearing box cap screws.
DO NOT attempt to loosen these without heat!
Carefully examine the main drive gear seal surface washer.... it must be free from rust or anything that will damage the new seal.
If this part is bad, it cannot be replaced without going through a fresh rolling torque value check.


have fun.


 
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Hi- very sorry for the late response i have not been able to work on my boat until this past weekend. i took my transmision apart this weeken becuase i was able to hold my slidding sleeve while turning the props. and and found that the lower vertical shaft/counteshaft it broke where it connects with the coupler. i also found a shredded metal piece inside the bellows see picture attach, i cannot tell where this piece came from as all the U-joint look complete and intact.
i tried to removed the broken vertical/counteshaft, i removed the outdrive from the boat, took props out, took the braring housing out, removed the lock washer and spacer ring. i was also able to loosen the botton pinion with the propeller shaft in place with the hope that it would slide up but i was unable to remove it. and i think i need two special tool to remove the propeller shaft.
 
Wow.... if the u joint bearings are intact I have NO Idea at all!!! Rick ???

Who serviced the u joints/ replaced bellows last???

On second thought.... are the bearings in the u joint greaseable??

IFSO.... my SWAG is that the "someone" who greased those bearings "lost" the end seal or more likely the "piston end cap"
from a grease gun grease cartridge in your bellows... ????

As a semi professional paranoid ( 50+ yrs as an R&D engineer) sometimes < people who allege to be mechanics> leave
stuff behind to insure future business... in this case a punctured bellows and a bearing redo... just speculating on a hot boring pm on the Jersey Shore.... :)
 
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yea i do not think that piece is part of the outdrive, i never service the u joint or bellows before the privious owner did mentioned that he replaced the upper outdrive. and yes the joint looked greaseable

any ideas of how to get around using volvo special tool # 885197 and 884802 to remove the propeller shaft and be able to replace the counteshaft ?
 
...............
Hi- very sorry for the late response i have not been able to work on my boat until this past weekend. i took my transmision apart this weeken becuase i was able to hold my slidding sleeve while turning the props. and and found that the lower vertical shaft/counteshaft it broke where it connects with the coupler.
Ah.... while not common, I have seen this several times over the years.

i also found a shredded metal piece inside the bellows see picture attach, i cannot tell where this piece came from as all the U-joint look complete and intact.
By chance does that piece appear to be shim stock?


i tried to removed the broken vertical/counteshaft,
Vertical shaft!

i removed the outdrive from the boat, took props out, took the braring housing out,
Prop shaft bearing carrier????

removed the lock washer and spacer ring.
Should be a locking washer and nut only.

i was also able to loosen the botton pinion with the propeller shaft in place
Please explain "with the propeller shaft in place".
In this lower gear unit, you'll have a "drive" gear and a "driven" gear (no ring & pinion). with the hope that it would slide up but i was unable to remove it. and i think i need two special tool to remove the propeller shaft.
I'm not following you.
At what stage are you?

Wow.... if the u joint bearings are intact I have NO Idea at all!!! Rick ???
Bob, I'm stumped as well. I cannot tell what it is from the picture.

yea i do not think that piece is part of the outdrive, i never service the u joint or bellows before the previous owner did mentioned that he replaced the upper out drive.
Suggestion:
Not all owners (or even some mechanics) know that the shimming procedure must be used when installing another transmission onto an existing Intermediate housing.
To be safe, I would double check the shimming.
and yes the joint looked greaseable

any ideas of how to get around using volvo special tool # 885197 and 884802 to remove the propeller shaft and be able to replace the counteshaft ?
What are you calling a propeller shaft and a counter-shaft?

In order to remove the prop shaft, the prop shaft bearing carrier must come out.
To do this correctly (and to avoid using a slide hammer), you'll need to make a copy of my puller tool.

Prop shaft carrier puller tool 4.jpgProp shaft carrier puller tool 5 .jpg


Once the prop shaft and bearing carrier are out of your way, you will have access to the lower portion of the vertical shaft and the "drive" gear.
 
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