Logo
FULL SITE MENU

Replaced while motor in boat?

C

commuter64

Contributing Member
Boat engine model is 1992 Per tag: 431B 868529, S/N 4100135494, with DP-C.

Can this seal be replaced without pulling engine? I have no grease zerk on my bell housing.driveshaft.jpg

ThanksTom
 
That is your aft PDS seal.
Run a sheet metal screw into the seal body and pull on the screw...... the seal will come out.

Your flywheel cover (bell housing in the auto world) is red, which may suggest an earlier one.
If no grease fitting, the PDS will be a single bearing unit.

While into it this far, you should pull the PDS and replace the bearing.
With no grease fitting, this will be a sealed bearing!

These are nothing more than industry standard bearings and seals.

6206-2RS bearing (sealed) and a 35x62x7mm Timken or TCM single lip seal.

Both should run you about $30 tops.


.
 
Tom, yes...... both the seal and single PDS bearing can be changed without pulling the engine.

Pull the transmission ONLY for this work.
 
Well, Seal came off, cavity loaded with grease! Bearing is not sealed :(

See:

PDS bearing.jpg

So does this mean I have a grease fitting? The only on I see is on top of the steering arm assy. Is that it?? Thanks, Rick.
 
I've also seen thread on another way to grease without a Zerk? An opening in flywheel housing? Sort of confused now. Did C drives have open bearings also? Not sure what to do next.
Tom
 

Attachments

  • PDS bearing.jpg
    PDS bearing.jpg
    88.1 KB · Views: 13
The C drives used a single bearing PDS.
Since there is no grease port, these are sealed bearings.

If an open bearing is used, it will lose it’s grease and will fail prematurely.
 
Last edited:
RicardoMarine said:
The C drives used a single bearing PDS.
Since there is no grease port, these are sealed bearings.

If an open bearing is used, it will lose it’s grease and will fail prematurely.
Click to expand...


Thanks, now I'm beginning to wonder if it is truly a C drive. I bought boat 2007 from marina and it was fully gone through then, i am second owner so who knows what they did. I'm going to take off the engine bay hatch cover so I can see from the back better. Yesterday I noticed what appeared to be a plastic plug (much like you would see in a rebuilt brake caliper) at 12 o'clock on the red flywheel housing. I'm curious as to what is under that, if that hole leads to a grease point. I was really hoping to find a sealed bearing when I pulled that cap! More to follow and thanks for all the input.

Tom
 
Yes, that is one of the C drives.
Never pull an entire drive....... pull transmission only, then the rest if need be!

Since it looks like a DP, you will use the heavy gear oil.
 
Yep its a DP. So is is possible that early C drives have open PDS bearing set up vs. Sealed? Not sure how to proceed with this bearing situation. Can a sealed bearing be installed in place of the open bearing?
 
..................
commuter64 said:
Yep its a DP. So is is possible that early C drives have open PDS bearing set up vs. Sealed?
If you are the original owner, and if you have NOT changed out the flywheel cover, it should be a single bearing PDS........ i.e., sealed bearing.
If the flywheel cover is red, then it will be a double bearing PDS..... i.e., two open bearings..... and the F/C will have the grease port at the 12:00 O'clock position.

Not sure how to proceed with this bearing situation.
Remove the AFT seal.
Reach in with a long needle nose pliers (tips altered to work with the snap ring eyelets) and remove the two large snap rings.
Now see if the PDS can be pulled out.

Single bearing PDS (one sealed bearing) can be removed without engine removal.
Double bearing PDS (two open bearings) cannot be removed without pulling the engine.

Can a sealed bearing be installed in place of the open bearing?
Yes!
The AFT bearing (in a sealed version) will be a 6206-2RS.
The AFT bearing (in an open version) will be a 6206 and with a 6007 FWD bearing.

However, if the F/C has the grease port, you would want to installed open bearings (two of them) so that they can receive grease in the future.
Click to expand...
 
Well, time to find that grease fitting. Looks to be a plug covering a hole at 12 o'clock on flywheel cover. Pulled AFT seal, was packed with grease, cleaned out to find open AFT bearing: PDS bearing.jpg

Found a new Timken seal locally 35x62 x 7. Thank you
 
If it is red, and if your have the GM V-8 engine, it's most likely a double bearing PDS flywheel cover that someone installed due to some type of failure to the original C drive unit.


PDS coupler and drive shaft 5.jpg



Volvo Penta flywheel cover 2 .jpg

OK.... if you do have the red F/C, with the double bearing PDS, you will need to remove, or at least side forward some, the engine in order to replace the two bearings.
These will be a 6206 and 6007 open bearings.
Both seals will be a 35 X 62 X 7mm in a Timken or TCM brand.
Glue or stake the FWD seal in place.
When going back together, spin the PDS while filling the grease cavity with new high pressure bearing grease.
DO NOT install the AFT seal until you see grease exit the ball cage.
AFT seal installs in the non-conventional direction after both large snap rings are back in place.

Once done, and if you routinely lubricate them (engine running at idle speed), you will be good to go for another 15 years or so.



.
 
Last edited:
By the way, all of the Volvo Penta in-line engines (4 and 6 cylinders) as well as the Ford V-8s and the C and later GM V-8s, use a single bearing PDS.
(see example image below)

The sealed bearing (#4) supports the AFT end of the PDS.
The FWD end of the PDS is equipped with a pilot nose that is centered and supported via a crankshaft bushing or bearing (#12).
As long as there is no rust/corrosion up front (at the pilot nose or Borg Warner splines), this style PDS will come out AFT and does not require engine removal.

This is an example only of a single bearing PDS.... (it's actually for a C or later drive).
Note the pilot nose and the crankshaft bearing.


 
Last edited:
A lot of information thanks for sharing. I'll need to digest a bit and focus on trying to find that grease fitting. Your examples clearly show Zerks or passageway for grease. I'm either blind or stupid :) I beginning to wonder who did what to this boat.

To recap:

1. Red FW cover.
2. Not a V8. GM 4.3L V6 , 1992 432B engine
3. AFT seal was NOT installed in the non-conventional manner upon inspection and removal!

Out to do some more looking. Thanks (again) Rick!
.
 
....................
commuter64 said:
A lot of information thanks for sharing. I'll need to digest a bit and focus on trying to find that grease fitting. Your examples clearly show Zerks or passageway for grease. I'm either blind or stupid :) I beginning to wonder who did what to this boat.
The C and later drive flywheel covers were painted a charcoal gray color, as seen in post #16.
I may be possible that someone painted it red, in which case it would not have the grease port, and would use a single bearing PDS.

To recap:

1. Red FW cover.
See above

2. Not a V8. GM 4.3L V6 , 1992 432B engine
Should be the same for the GM V-6.

Go here and find your engine via the complete engine model number.
Once there, scroll down and look under the "transmissions" heading.
http://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/volvo-penta-schematics-MarineGasolineEngines.aspx

3. AFT seal was NOT installed in the non-conventional manner upon inspection and removal!
Yes, I can see that via your photo.... that's why I mentioned it!

attachment.php



FYI.... it is not imperative that the AFT seal be installed in the Non-Conventional direction if you have the sealed single bearing PDS.
It is imperative if you have the double bearing PDS.



Out to do some more looking.
Thanks (again) Rick!
You are certainly welcome!
Click to expand...
 
Here are some pics of the FW cover.

FW Top.1.jpg

Blue plug at 12 o'clock. Inspection hole, when removed I see flywheel teeth. only.

FW Top.2 plug.jpg

Good view of the top of the cover. Clearly, No grease zerks.

looked over the transmissions for the 432B engine and there are no grease zerks

Is it possible that whoever set this up 15 years ago used an open vs a sealed bearing?

Will I hurt anything trying to pull it, or can I ? If double bearing.

Sorry for the confusion....!!!!
 
I think someone might had substituted ad open PDS bearing instead of a sealed on and manually packed it with grease. There is no way to externally grease it otherwise. My son says "repack it and put it back together".
 
commuter64 said:
I think someone might had substituted ad open PDS bearing instead of a sealed on and manually packed it with grease. There is no way to externally grease it otherwise. My son says "repack it and put it back together".
Click to expand...

In order to re-pack it, you must remove it, clean it, inspect it, etc!
After you re-pack it, where will you find the seals that will hold the grease into the ball cage?
No seals, and centrifugal force will eventually sling the grease from it.

Since it will be removed, why not simply replace it when you're looking at $14/$16 only for an industry standard 6206-2RS bearing?


images



NO BBQ Pork bearings..... use US, German, Japanese, or any bearing other than from the land of BBQ Pork and Fried Rice!




.
 
Last edited:
No PORK! :)

I have a new AFT seal in hand. I keep shaking my head wondering why I see the open bearing installed and can not find any way to add grease externally. If it truly is a double bearing set up with no external grease points I can't pull out AFT and would need to remove engine or slide ahead.

Ugh. Thanks again
 
..............
commuter64 said:
No PORK! :)

I have a new AFT seal in hand.
You probably have the AFT most universal drive shaft female yoke seal in hand.
I.E., the 35 X 62 X 7mm seal.
s-l640.jpg


The 6206-2RS bearing has two seals that are snapped in place via a grove at each side of the outer race.
This bearing is used with the single bearing PDS.
6206-2rs-ball-bearing-30x62x16-sealed-6206-2nse.jpg

The 6206 bearings is not sealed.
This bearing is used with the double bearing PDS, with a 6007 up front.
6206-ball-bearing-30x62x16-open.jpg




I keep shaking my head wondering why I see the open bearing installed and can not find any way to add grease externally.
This was a mistake by the last person in there!

If it truly is a double bearing set up with no external grease points I can't pull out AFT and would need to remove engine or slide ahead.
If there is NO grease fitting at the 12:00 O'clock position, it's very doubtful that it is a double bearing PDS .

As I suggested earlier, remove the 35x62x7mm seal, remove the two large snap rings, and try to pull the PDS out.

You will need one of these (with the tips modified) to fit and grab the snap ring eyelets.
Don't waste your time trying to use a factory style snap ring tool.
Long needle nose pliers (1).jpg
Click to expand...
 

Attachments

  • Long needle nose pliers.jpg
    Long needle nose pliers.jpg
    5.4 KB · Views: 21
Well, well, well. Lookie what I found! Add it to the wall of shame?? :mad: Open bearing installed with grease. Came right out. New sealed bearing on it's way.!!!!!!!



PDS.1.jpg

PDS.2.jpg
 
Good for you!


A few suggestions:


When re-installing, let the snap ring's sharp/crisp edge (or side) come to rest against the snap ring grove (sharp edges facing AFT..... radius edges facing the bearing).
If you need replacements, NAPA will most likely have these.

The new 6206-2RS bearing OD should fit snugly into the flywheel cover's 62mm bore.

Be sure to grease the Borg Warner spines and the pilot nose when going back together.

Also put some grease on the lip of the 35x62x7mm seal.

With YOUR set up (non-serviceable), the open side of the 35x62x7mm seal does not necessarily need to be facing AFT.
However, that is how the OEM wants them to be.


Happy boating!


.
 
Back
Top