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  1. #1

    Default New and have out drive question(s)

    Hi,

    I have a 1992 Glastron with a Volvo duo-prop. Its a 431B 868629 (?what that 868# means). V6 4BBL. S/N 41001365XXX. I think it's a DP-C unit. I've owned since 2007 and am the second, freshwater only owner. The silver plate on the top of the upper unit has lost any of its ID #'s. The plastic cover over the carb. has lost most of the ID numbers as well. At one point, I have written DP-C in a book I have, so I'm thinking that was visable at one point.

    So, my upper drive bellows ripped and I need to replace the u joints as both rusted a bit. I think it broke over the winter (upstate ny) and snow got in there. I swear it wasn't ripped when I cleaned the stern last Fall; who knows.

    So, I wen ahead and removed the drive gear from the upper unit by removing the 4 hex bolts. I carefully noted the order and positioning of the 3 shims. The o-ring needs to be replaced on both the drive shaft and the gear housing, but otherwise the bearing assy,drive gear and movements all seem very good. I did remove the 7/16" bolt and cone washer to get the shaft out for u-joint replacements. Do I been to pre-load prior to re-assy? what are the torque specs for the hex bolts and the 7/16 bolt? Or, am I completely wrong?

    Thank you!
    Tom


  2. #2
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    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    Going forward... these bellows require routine replacement. Every 2 to 3 seasons for worry free (low cost) boating.... Use Volvo OEM only. For best life, leave drive down when not using the boat. Lift drive only when trailering or for maintenance.
    Capt Bob
    1969 23ft ChrisCraft Lancer
    Merc 5.7L 260HP/ Volvo 280

  3. #3
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    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    ......................
    Quote Originally Posted by commuter64 View Post
    Hi,

    I have a 1992 Glastron with a Volvo duo-prop. Its a 431B 868629 (?what that 868# means). V6 4BBL. S/N 41001365XXX. I think it's a DP-C unit. I've owned since 2007 and am the second, freshwater only owner. The silver plate on the top of the upper unit has lost any of its ID #'s. The plastic cover over the carb. has lost most of the ID numbers as well. At one point, I have written DP-C in a book I have, so I'm thinking that was visable at one point.

    So, my upper drive bellows ripped and I need to replace the u joints as both rusted a bit. I think it broke over the winter (upstate ny) and snow got in there. I swear it wasn't ripped when I cleaned the stern last Fall; who knows.
    If by chance it failed during your last outing, water may have entered your PDS bearing.
    While you have the transmission off for bellows replacement, you may as well replace the PDS bearing!
    The bearing itself will run you about $16, and the seal about $8.
    These are industry standard parts....... so there is no need to go through Volvo Penta.
    A good bearing supplier can sell you the exact same parts.


    So, I wen ahead and removed the drive gear from the upper unit by removing the 4 hex bolts. I carefully noted the order and positioning of the 3 shims. The o-ring needs to be replaced on both the drive shaft and the gear housing, but otherwise the bearing assy,drive gear and movements all seem very good. I did remove the 7/16" bolt and cone washer to get the shaft out for u-joint replacements. Do I been to pre-load prior to re-assy?
    The pre-load will be done once the new seal and male yoke are back in place.
    The OEM work shop manual will show you two torque specs: one for new bearings and one for "run-in" bearings.
    If you did not replace the two bearings, use the "run-in" specs.
    Hopefully you measured the existing pre-load (i.e., your "run-in" value), and will be able to slightly increase it now.
    The "book" suggests replacing the crush sleeve and the bolt with new.
    However (and you will not see this in the book), since "run-in" bearing pre-load has diminished some, this is why you can safely bring the pre-load back up a bit.



    what are the torque specs for the hex bolts and the 7/16 bolt? Or, am I completely wrong?

    As you torque the bolt, the crush sleeve will collapse, giving you a small amount of increased rolling torque. The bolt tension will be sufficient once the value is reached.


    Thank you!
    Tom


    As Bob suggested, store the boat with the drive down and aiming straight forward.
    Lift the drive no more than need be when on the trailer.
    Do this, and you will extend the life of your drive shaft bellows.




    .
    Last edited by RicardoMarine; 05-23-2020 at 06:18 AM.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  4. #4

    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    Thank you for the detailed response, Ricardo! Did did not measure the pre-load. After further inspection, it looks like the C-Clip is rusted, so I will take your advice and replace components. I've been looking for a Volvo shop manual ; not sure which one I should get. From Volvo, my S/N returns: AQ205 for 431, 432 ,433 , 434. Would you have input here?

    Thanks again
    Tom

  5. #5
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    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by commuter64 View Post
    I've been looking for a Volvo shop manual ; not sure which one I should get.

    Thanks again
    Tom

    PM me your email address....
    Capt Bob
    1969 23ft ChrisCraft Lancer
    Merc 5.7L 260HP/ Volvo 280

  6. #6
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    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    If you acquire an OEM Service or Work Shop manual, be sure to look at the section that pertains to a C or later transmission..... (i.e., post A transmission)!

    No Seloc, and no Clymer! OEM ONLY!



    You should have this transmission:

    http://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/...t-7742810.aspx



    .
    Last edited by RicardoMarine; 05-23-2020 at 11:10 AM.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  7. #7

    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    Update:
    Thanks to a member here, I have the OEM manual!! Secondly, I was telling my son about the ripped drive bellows and the need for replacement. He WAS with me and he helped clean up the transom / stern of the boat last Fall and definitely said it was not split at that time (we always inspect and clean real well). What I can say for sure is that the boat was stored outside with the transom all the way up and the rip was on the bottom (the most stretched part of the boot). And, we had a lot of snow so I am now convinced that it split over the winter and snow got in there. My son is an auto mechanic by trade and has a better memory than the old man!

    So here's the deal. I didn't measure the pre-load prior to removing the drive shaft assembly. I don't have the tools to measure pre-load either. The OEM manual notes the torque spec of the bolt that secures the shaft into the bearing assy. What if I simply reassemble and torque to spec (we have quality torque wrench).

  8. #8
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    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    NEVER have the drive up any longer than absolutely necessary and for SURE not all winter.
    Capt Bob
    1969 23ft ChrisCraft Lancer
    Merc 5.7L 260HP/ Volvo 280

  9. #9
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    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    .......................
    Quote Originally Posted by commuter64 View Post
    Update:
    Thanks to a member here, I have the OEM manual!! Secondly, I was telling my son about the ripped drive bellows and the need for replacement. He WAS with me and he helped clean up the transom / stern of the boat last Fall and definitely said it was not split at that time (we always inspect and clean real well). What I can say for sure is that the boat was stored outside with the transom all the way up and the rip was on the bottom (the most stretched part of the boot). And, we had a lot of snow so I am now convinced that it split over the winter and snow got in there. My son is an auto mechanic by trade and has a better memory than the old man!

    So here's the deal. I didn't measure the pre-load prior to removing the drive shaft assembly. I don't have the tools to measure pre-load either.
    That would be a string and a small but good quality spring scale.




    The OEM manual notes the torque spec of the bolt that secures the shaft into the bearing assy. What if I simply reassemble and torque to spec (we have quality torque wrench).
    While there is a torque spec for this bolt, the important aspect is the amount that the pressure collapses and/or compresses the crush-sleeve.
    The "controlled" collapsing and/or compression of the crush-sleeve is what controls the distance between the two back-to-back tapered roller bearings.
    This distance (or proximity between the two bearings) is what creates the rolling torque value.
    The bearings must be oiled prior to the test/check!

    See your OEM work shop or service manual for the rolling torque value for what we call "run-in" bearings.
    You have an A or later transmission, so be sure to use the value for this transmission.
    Quote Originally Posted by sandkicker View Post
    NEVER have the drive up any longer than absolutely necessary and for SURE not all winter.
    Ditto Bob, and I'll add: Never raise the drive any further than need be.
    Store the drive in the full down position and aiming straight forward.
    Do this, and you will extend the life of the drive shaft bellows.
    Last edited by RicardoMarine; 05-30-2020 at 05:58 AM.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    BTW.... A dial style fish weight scale available inexpensively in any sporting goods or tackle store would do the job and "have other uses" :-)
    Capt Bob
    1969 23ft ChrisCraft Lancer
    Merc 5.7L 260HP/ Volvo 280

  11. #11

    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    Thanks sandkicker. One on order!

  12. #12

    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    Question on water intake hose through transom. AQ205 exploded view not like mine? I have oil cooler with a 1.5" hose to water housing (872336). Got apart and I see what appears to be a rubber gasket, not o ring. How do I get the old hose out?

  13. #13

    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by commuter64 View Post
    Question on water intake hose through transom. AQ205 exploded view not like mine? I have oil cooler with a 1.5" hose to water housing (872336). Got apart and I see what appears to be a rubber gasket, not o ring. How do I get the old hose out?

    I figured it out, was quite easy. New one in

  14. #14

    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    Ricardo: you mention that I have AQ205. When I look at the Marine parts Europe website and view the diagram for the Connecting Components, it doesn't look like mine. I have 1 inch pivot pins that are threaded 5/8 in one end. I ordered bushings based on the AQ205 parts list and they are too small. I found these numbers on the transom inside the boat where the bell housing meets the transom: 4114011 and 4101507580. Again, I have a 431B 1992 boat.

  15. #15

    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by commuter64 View Post
    Ricardo: you mention that I have AQ205. When I look at the Marine parts Europe website and view the diagram for the Connecting Components, it doesn't look like mine. I have 1 inch pivot pins that are threaded 5/8 in one end. I ordered bushings based on the AQ205 parts list and they are too small. I found these numbers on the transom inside the boat where the bell housing meets the transom: 4114011 and 4101507580. Again, I have a 431B 1992 boat.
    Correction: Intermediate house does not look correct; not connecting components!

  16. #16
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    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    ...........
    Quote Originally Posted by commuter64 View Post
    Ricardo: you mention that I have AQ205.

    When I look at the Marine parts Europe website and view the diagram for the Connecting Components, it doesn't look like mine. I have 1 inch pivot pins that are threaded 5/8 in one end. I ordered bushings based on the AQ205 parts list and they are too small. I found these numbers on the transom inside the boat where the bell housing meets the transom: 4114011 and 4101507580. Again, I have a 431B 1992 boat.

    I most likely grabbed an image that would show your transmission style.
    I would need to have your engine model number in order to send you to the correct over-all web page.

    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  17. #17

    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoMarine View Post
    ...........
    Boat engine model is 1992 Per tag: 431B 868529 S/N 4100135494

  18. #18
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    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  19. #19

    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    Getting ready to reassemble the drive shaft into the double bearing housing. New o rings on hand, new u-joints installed, checked pre-load (used bearings) with bolt hand tight; measured about .54 (digital scale). Have blue loctite for bolt, is there any sealant required on mating surface (where 3 shims are) or is the large o ring only sufficient. I have permatex #3 for other. areas.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    ...........
    Quote Originally Posted by commuter64 View Post
    Getting ready to reassemble the drive shaft into the double bearing housing. New o rings on hand, new u-joints installed,
    checked pre-load (used bearings) with bolt hand tight; measured about .54 (digital scale).
    You will want to torque the bolt prior to taking the rolling torque measurement.

    Have blue loctite for bolt, is there any sealant required on mating surface (where 3 shims are) or is the large o ring only sufficient.

    I have permatex #3 for other. areas.
    With the A transmission, you will have one O-ring only, and gasket style shims.
    I've had the best luck with the QuickSilver "Perfect Seal" product.

    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  21. #21

    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    Will tighten in intervals until the "used bearing" pre-stress range is achieved per Workshop manual.

    Question on sealant application: I have 3 shims. what surface(s) get the sealant?

    Oh, a lastly. On the spline shaft: moly or marine grease?

    Thanks

  22. #22
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    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    ............
    Quote Originally Posted by commuter64 View Post
    Will tighten in intervals until the "used bearing" pre-stress range is achieved per Workshop manual.
    Correct!

    Question on sealant application: I have 3 shims. what surface(s) get the sealant?
    Typically, the gasket style shims seal themselves.
    However, I have always used sealant on the cap screw threads.


    Oh, a lastly. On the spline shaft: moly or marine grease?
    I use a high pressure bearing grease for the PDS bearings
    However, yours will be a single PDS, and will use a sealed bearing.

    Marine grease will be just fine for the PDS to female yoke splines.


    Thanks
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  23. #23

    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    Thanks Ricardo. All reassembled and within torque spec! D

    Darn it, I bought a Sierra exhaust bellow, thought it was Volvo.0 Drive bellows is Volvo. The Sierra came with the european style clamps and two clips (says for the bottom of the bellows - one one either end, to help keep it in place / Merc?). The Sierra does have a molded ridge on the inside that seems to fit the volvo. Sierra okay? Do I need to use those two clips?? Not using any adhesive.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: New and have out drive question(s)

    Both the AQ series drive shaft and exhaust bellows will offer a sealing bead in the interior area. The bead fits nicely into the bead grove on the aluminum snouts.

    If not, then they may not be the correct bellows.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

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