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  1. #1

    Default 2002 honda outboard woes

    Hey guys, so I’ve been scratching my head quite a bit last two weeks.

    i recently bought a new to me Parker 2110 with a 2002 Honda outboard, upon going and seeing the boat the motor ran perfectly. I took it out and it also ran perfectly with a WOT of 32 MPH.

    going further I decided to go ahead and take the boat for a offshore excursion and test my luck. Day didn’t go well, I ended up getting towed in. What an adventure.

    anyways I get home and do extensive research and see many posts from this website with previous problems.

    to begin the problems I’m having is that the max RPM Im able to get is about 4500 RPM.

    secondly, once motor seems to warm up it doesn’t want to idle perfectly, ex: it isles around 1000 and will surge up to maybe 1100.

    with some of the research I found I started off buying the HP, LP fuel filters and went ahead and changed the racor. I found a lot of sediment. Inspected the fuel tank and it’s clean as a whistle.
    by the way I’ve never seen someone strip the drain bolt as much as this particular VST had..I had to completely dismantle it to go from the top of the fuel pump. After inspecting the inside, it looked really good. Forgot to mention I also put new spark plugs on, due to specs of the manual

    moving forward I took it out again after it idling around 1000 rpm..motor was back up and running but I am not happy with only being able to get to 4500 RPM. I take it home to wash it out on the muffs and I noticed the slight surging again.

    now I’m really scratching my head as what this can be, I did notice the prime bulb does get a little bit soft after the boats running a bit or I restart the engine on the muffs.

    fuel lines look brand new.

    i went ahead and inspected the IAC and it was full of gunk! I went ahead and cleaned it. It didn’t do much, same result.

    if y’all can help a guy out and see where I can go from here. I’d highly appreciate it.

    There’s only about 600 hours on this motor

    - Mr Main22
    Last edited by Mr Main22; 05-12-2020 at 12:41 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    Forgot to mention the size engine is a 225.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    Firstly, what RPM were you getting at full throttle when you first got and thought it was running perfectly? Secondly,your idle is way too fast, should be around 650 - 700 rpm for good gear shifting, 1000 RPM will damage your dog clutch and be dangerously difficult to shift from in gear to neutral. If your idle was good before issues started then you may have a vacuum leak in the intake system, check your hoses are all connected and not damaged, given the age of your engine they may be starting to perish.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    Let me add to Ian's good suggestions...

    When checking vacuum hoses, especially check the one going to the Intake Air Bypass (IAB). That's the one that goes to the diaphragm that you need to move to get to the HP fuel filter. And while you are in there, take needle nosed pliers and grab the arm coming out of the IAB diaphragm and pull is back into the diaphragm as if it was being activated, then let go and it should snap back into place. If so, then repeat with the vacuum hose disconnected and put you finger tightly on the pipe that the vacuum hose fits to and let go again. That should hold the arm out until you remove your finger. If it doesn't, then you likely have a leak in the diaphragm.

    Check the other end of that vacuum hose where it fits to the IAB solenoid. BTW - that solenoid is activated at approximately 3800 rpm.

    Having said all of that, and given that you've found a lot of junk in the fuel system, I suspect that you may have some clogged fuel screens. Following is a list of all the filters and fuel screens on that motor. Since you changed the HP fuel filter already, then you need to check the screen on the bottom of the holder for the fuel pump and the screen on the fuel rail, which is a PITA.

    Fuel filters and screens on BF 200 and BF 225.pdf

    Other things that come to mind are the fuel pressure regulator and possibly clogged injectors.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  5. #5

    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    Quote Originally Posted by iang6766 View Post
    Firstly, what RPM were you getting at full throttle when you first got and thought it was running perfectly? Secondly,your idle is way too fast, should be around 650 - 700 rpm for good gear shifting, 1000 RPM will damage your dog clutch and be dangerously difficult to shift from in gear to neutral. If your idle was good before issues started then you may have a vacuum leak in the intake system, check your hoses are all connected and not damaged, given the age of your engine they may be starting to perish.
    I guess you can say at full throttle i was thinking it was running perfectly when i first got it, after coming to the realization later that it wasn't.
    I agree it is idling way to fast from the specifications on the manual, I'm having a hard time going into neutral and it just makes docking, loading the trailer so much harder. So you can say i never have had the engine running 'well'.

    I'm going to start by checking all the hoses again

    Also check these from top to bottom.
    - change the fuel primer bulb
    - Going to send the fuel injectors in for service. Any Particular place you guys recommend? I've read about Brucato
    - check the IAB, see if it swings back in

    @CHAWK - since i already changed the fuel HP filter and if i decide to go back in, do i need to change the HP filter again or just the o-ring? so i can inspect/change the insulator.

    Also there is many different sizes of lines to possibly change out, i wouldn't mind doing so..is there a kit to do this? or where can i find out what size lines are for each part?
    Last edited by Mr Main22; 05-12-2020 at 11:29 AM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    If you just changed the HP filter, the filter and the O ring should be good UNLESS you pumped more junk in there. I would check it again. You should be able to re-use the filter and O ring unless the filter is clogged up again.

    A while ago Ian posted that the Honda fuel lines are 5/16" (8mm).

    If you pull the injectors for cleaning, be sure to check that filter screen on the fuel rail. I would go ahead and replace it for ~ $12.00.

    See part #4 at https://www.boats.net/catalog/honda/...-pipe-injector
    CHawk 25 DLX

  7. #7

    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    Click image for larger version. 

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    So here are some pictures of my vacuum tank, you can even see the stripped bolt on the side with an arrow.

    @CHAWK - which hose is the one that i should be following that is connected to the hose?

    also, what part of the diaphragm am i pulling back to see if it snaps back in place? The instructions were not too clear (to me).

    Thanks again guys.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    A quick word on the idle, check your throttle cable adjustments and make sure the throttle is closing fully back onto the stop screw. Also try a cylinder drop test by disconnecting the coil plugs on each coil one at a time at idle and listen to see that each one has the same effect on rpm drop.Also check fuel pressure and compression. No point in chasing issues until you have done a general engine health check.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    I totally agree with Ian's advice. They are some of the things you should be doing right off the bat before tearing into injectors and the fuel pump.

    As for the pictures - I think you are looking at the wrong diaphragm.

    See item #4 in this diagram: https://www.boats.net/catalog/honda/...ntake-manifold

    It's the diaphragm on the bottom of item #4 that I was talking about. And you can see where vacuum hose #23 connects to the IAB solenoid, #9.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  10. #10

    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    Well I got home after work and started wrenching,

    i took a look at the IAB and it was flickering right on when I turned her on and tested while the engine was off, I flickered it with my finger and it’s very much working. I checked the lines and everything seemed great! I even tried to inspect them on the inside. Couldn’t find holes, cracks, tears.

    so I started doing the cylinder drop test, it seems every single spark plug was working and you can tell the different when I took out the plug.

    i checked the throttle body wires, they were in spec and not any extra play and was sitting on the top and sitting back on the stopper.

    i need to do a fuel pressure test but have no idea what tools I need to be asked to do. I’ll try some research.

    gah this is very frustrating I honestly don’t know what to do from here or if I should just go ahead and take it in the shop..was really trying to get away from that.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    On the cover to the HP fuel filter there is a fuel pressure relief bolt. That's where you measure fuel pressure. You need a 6 mm adapter. Spec is 41 psi to 49 psi at idle, if my memory is still good.

    Why did you remove the entire intake?
    CHawk 25 DLX

  12. #12

    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    Quote Originally Posted by chawk_man View Post
    On the cover to the HP fuel filter there is a fuel pressure relief bolt. That's where you measure fuel pressure. You need a 6 mm adapter. Spec is 41 psi to 49 psi at idle, if my memory is still good.

    Why did you remove the entire intake?
    Hey Chawk, I'm not sure why it uploaded that picture, it was supposed to be the picture of the IAB. Might have accidentally clicked that one instead.

    I had chosen to go ahead and take this into the shop. Every shop i called is a wait of 3-4 weeks out. So I'm going ahead and going to buy a fuel pressure gauge and see where it's sitting at. I'm going to have to tackle this on my own as i really do not want to miss this bluefin bite now that it is starting to warm up.

    I'll give you guys an update in the next coming days with the results of the fuel pressure.

    So, upon reckoning that the fuel pressure is low..This can mean that i possibly have a bad fuel pump correct? or is there other sub issues to low fuel pressure

    Thanks again,

    - Mr Main22

  13. #13
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    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    Saw your photo and that makes me curious. When/why was the intake removed? Was it closely inspected for warpage and cracks? Was it properly reinstalled using new seals and gaskets? Were the torque specifications and tightening pattern followed?

    I ask because your description of the problem sounds suspiciously like an intake leak or, possibly, a defective MAP sensor to me.

    This being a speed/density fuel control system, it's common for intake leaks to increase idle speed as the manifold pressure increase

    Of course, a skewed map can do the same but is easy to check with a handheld vacuum tool and a multimeter.

    Good luck.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    If fuel pressure is too low, there could be several reasons...

    I could be a fuel line restriction - first place to check is where the fuel line goes through that big, black grommet where it enters the engine compartment. Several folks on this forum have reported that the fuel line gets kinked there - even inside the grommet. This seems to happen more often when non-OEM fuel lines are used.

    You could have a clogged external fuel/water separator filter. Replace the filter element if it has not been done recently. Should be done annually.

    You could be drawing air into the fuel line. This often happens at high speed when fuel demand is very high. Use a clear plastic hose from the primer bulb to the onboard fuel/water separator to check. Do the same between the low pressure filter to the low pressure pump, and from the low pressure pump to the VST.

    Your fuel pressure regulator may be not working properly. There is a section in the Helm manual for diagnosing and cleaning it.

    Your low pressure fuel pump could be failing, or a small leak in the diaphragm. The only way I know of to check it is to remove and inspect closely and work it manually.

    Probably the last thing to check is the HP fuel pump. These are very rugged pumps and seldom fail. HOWEVER, several folks on this forum have reported that the screen on the bottom of the plastic holder that the fuel pump sits in gets clogged and that will cause low fuel pressure.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  15. #15
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    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    FYI....... I have found on these engines here in NJ.... Where the fuel line, cables, wiring comes through the cowling there is a top clamp that locks everything in place... I have found that this (COVER, FR. SEPARATE *NH282MU* (OYSTER SILVER METALLIC-U) 40151-ZY3-000ZA) Grows with corrosion and pinches the fuel line.
    Chris
    Dockside Marine Services
    Jersey Shore.
    Mercruiser/Mercury Certified
    Let the insanity begin.

  16. #16

    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    Hey Guys,

    An update. I went ahead and did a compression test at a dealer and i was showing decent numbers, however they told me they hear what seemed to be a ticking sound on the starboard side and that it needs to be looked at before continuing to diagnose further. They went ahead and did a valve adjustment and informed me that there was 2 valves simply toooo tight. They did the proper adjustments and put the motor back together and did another compression test, it was now sitting at 225 compression. I'm not kidding you it sounded worse after doing the valve adjustment however. The ticking had turned so loud. The owner said some very confusing things i did not understand. He said that i need to go ahead and replace my 'heads'. I got quoted for $4000-$5000.

    I could have sworn this a fuel related issue but has turned into something completely different. I don't fully trust their opinion.

    I might have to re-power maybe after the year end. I'll let you guys know any update. Thank you all.
    Last edited by Mr Main22; 05-24-2020 at 03:12 AM.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    This is getting hard to understand.
    I would have guessed that you took it to them to check fuel pressure but you don't say that. Did they?
    If so, what were the numbers?
    "Decent compression numbers" means nothing to me. One man's "decent" is another's low....if you get my drift.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    Repeating jgmo's question - just what were the compression numbers?

    The heads on these motors are pretty rugged UNLESS they are not flushed correctly after every use in saltwater. Many users have reported internal corrosion in the water passages. That doesn't sound like a problem that are experiencing. So, I find it hard to believe that the "dealer" is recommending a very expensive replacement of the heads. That tells me they can't find the problem and are just going to throw parts at it. At the very most the heads can likely be rebuilt at a fraction of the cost of what your were quoted. Find another shop that will address your real problems.

    First thing I would do is reset the valves. A while back, Ian posted: "Single most common cause for your idle surge is valve clearance. Disregard the manual and set the inlets at .010" and exhaust .012" (= 0.25 mm and 0.305 mm respectively)." If you have the Helm Shop Manual, pages 3-6 to 3-8 walk you through the procedure.

    If you don't have the manual, here is a link to one online, which you can save to your computer.
    http://planbmarine.com/wp-content/up...BF200A-BF2.pdf

    While doing that I would very closely inspect both breather tubes, the various fuel tubes that you will need to remove, and especially the timing belt rollers and tensioner. Then carefully inspect each of the valve rocker arms for looseness, excessive wear, and so forth. You'll very likely to find the source of that "ticking" noise.

    If you're not completely comfortable doing that yourself, find a local (mobile) marine mechanic that can help you out. It's a job most marine mechanics do on a regular basis.

    Having said all of that, I still think that your initial problem is a fuel feed or vacuum leak problem. So re-adjust the valves, find and fix the ticking noise, and then let's find the performance problem (assuming that adjusting the valves and fixing the ticking noise doesn't do it.)
    CHawk 25 DLX

  19. #19
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    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    I too urge you to disregard the advice you got from that shop. Sounds sketchy to me.
    Chawk-man is wise...heed his advice.
    And, please, post any numbers you have for compression or fuel pressure.

  20. #20

    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    Compression numbers were as followed - Port 225/225/220 Starboard 200/205/200

    I think i'm going to go ahead and try to re-adjust these valves. This has been overwhelming

  21. #21
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    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    Hmmm. On the face of it the numbers seem quite good, but I have no idea why the starboard side would be so different that the port side.

    As I indicated previously, re-adjusting the valves would be a very good idea. And also check the other items I listed.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  22. #22
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    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    Has this block ever been replaced?

  23. #23

    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    @iang

    I think it has had some work done but not replaced, the previous owner gave me some of the work that has been done to it. Picture attached

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Mr Main22; 05-26-2020 at 04:02 PM.

  24. #24

    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    Also, I'd like to mention that this motor has more hours than what the Tach had shown, the motor is sitting at about 1100 hours when hooked up to the HDS. I called the guy telling him the dilemma and he seemed to have no idea. Probably the worse boat purchase I've ever done...

    I did not know you can reset these tachs. Lesson learned.

    I'm wondering if i should go ahead and do the re-power and just part this motor out. Anybody know how much i can get from parting out a motor like this?

  25. #25
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    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    The only time I experienced loud tapping is with a faulty Vtec solenoid, what happens is it gets stuck open and oil pressure at idle is insufficient to engage Vtec rockers fully which cause a rather alarming tapping noise. Just food for thought and something to look into. Also, if the Vtec is engaged prematurely the performance is affected severely because the valve timing is too advanced for the engine speed.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    That is excellent advice from Ian and very well could be the source of all of your issues.

    The link to the manual I sent to you tells you how to remove/test the VTEC solenoid.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  27. #27

    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    Going ahead and doing valves, noticed this is not connected to anythingClick image for larger version. 

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  28. #28

    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    While using the feeler gauge for valve 6, I found it to be tightened so hard I couldn’t even get the feeler gauge to go through to measure

  29. #29

    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    Okay so everything has been adjusted to proper specifications and I can tell you the guy had 4 and 5 super loose while #6 was as tight as a rock where I couldnít even gauge it with the feeler.

    now my question is, what is the picture I have listed? It wasnít connected to anything, is that a purge for air or where should that be connecting to? I tried looking at the diagram I just donít know exactly what Iím looking at or for.

    by the way sorry guys if this doesnít always sound professional, Iím always at work, have a 1 month old and trying to get this boat running..busy life.

    also I have all the filters that CHAWK recommended. Iím gonna go and change them tomorrow and button everything up..unfortunate I couldnít find a fuel pressure gauge with a 6mm so I havenít been able to test the pressure. Any suggestions or links where I can buy this? Thanks in advance and for all help.
    Last edited by Mr Main22; 05-28-2020 at 12:25 AM.

  30. #30

    Default Re: 2002 honda outboard woes

    Well I can’t believe it! But the engine is up and running and is not making any ticking sound whatsoever..the shop was completely bsing me and charged me an arm for bad work.

    also I’m soooo glad to say that the motor is now idling at 800 RPM with everything I replaced!!! She sounds sooo much better. I’m wondering if I can still bring it down a bit more if I get my fuel injectors redone..


    thank you so much iang & chawk

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