Pre Alpha shift issues driving me crazy

Hello All,

I have a 1977 Pre Alpha. Had some issues with it shifting into gear and working good. Then after a warm up or about ten minutes of running it would shift into neutral then not back into gear. Or it would get stuck in a gear and not shift out of that gear. Took it to a shop and was told the lower was bad. So went and picked up a low hour complete unit from inner transom plate to prop. I swapped out the lowers and had the same issue. Tore it down and found the lower shift cable housing gone and the wires frayed. The inner cable just doing what it wanted. So over the winter, I removed the bell housing and replaced all the stuff that needed replaced. Bellows, bearing, trim sensors, water impeller(again due to shop running unit without water) and lower shift cable. Cleaned out all the very old grease and sand. Put it all back together with fresh grease and as clean as I could get things.

Removed the drive with the remote in forward gear like the Clymer manual said. Reinstalled the drive. And can't get the cables to adjust like the manual says. Took the lower back off and after looking at this and the other unit, things just don't seem right. The sift rods are both great and feel tight. No play and move great. The "U" is nice and tight and the foot is great with nice clean edges. The cam and arm are tight and work as they should.

What is driving me crazy is this;

Lower unit, at 12:00 locked in reverse prop locks CCW looking from aft to front.
Lower unit, at 10:00ish locked in forward prop locks CW looking from aft to front.

Upper unit, 12:00 remote in forward WOT shift cable plate in full forward.
Upper unit, 10:00ish remote in reverse WOT shift cable plate in full reverse.

I have gone back and forth looking at the "spare" unit and the one in the boat and both are the same. Now from the boat side it's just as the manual says it should be. But the drive is not what it says it should be. It came off the boat and was running before hand.

What am I missing here?

John

Your write up is very confusing.

There is NO upper drive anything. All shifting occurs in the lower unit only.


The BRONZE shift arm sticking out of the lower half, When pointing at 12:00 and rotating the prop C'cw, you are in FORWARD GEAR.

The BRONZE shift arm sticking out of the lower half, When pointing at 10:00 and rotating the prop Cw, you are in REVERSE GEAR.


If this is reversed then you have a problem. Possibly a reverse rotation lower unit?

Please clarify what you are trying to say again

First off the UPPER is where the cable is attached to the shift rod, is it not?!? And that first half of the shift rod, with the "U" in it is in the upper half is it not!?! Along with the bronze rod with the foot is attached in the upper half.

So when I removed the unit from the boat it was working in ok, just had its parts that needed replaced. I removed the drive with the remote in forward. But I never checked to see if the prop was locked in forward gear. And now it won't go together? How can this be?

So when I look at the top of the lower unit, where the bronze arm would be, at the male splined shift rod, at 12:00 rotating the prop in a counter clockwise rotation, looking from the back of the drive to that front it is in reverse. Meaning if I am standing with the prop in my face looking into the exhaust and spin it counter clockwise it is locked in reverse. And in a reversed of above it is in forward gear.

Isn't there a few that were made where the drive is removed in reverse and cables adjusted in reverse? Or is the rotation of the prop not looking from the back of the boat to the front of the boat, but from the front to the back?

Everything is from this one drive. Factory mated units. Just the parts that are wear parts that should be replaced during routine maintenance were replaced.

Now if there is way to change the rotation of the drive by just sitting in the shop on a table I need to be scared. This might be how guns are jumping up and killing people by themselves.

John

mercruiser drives are in Fwd with the prop locked CCW and in Rev with the prop locked CW for a standard drive. The opposite for the reverse rotation drive
The cable pushes for full Fwd and pulls in for full Rev

thats only for a reverse rotation drive .putting the control box in reverse has the shift shoe in a straight line for removal or install

Bt Doctur said:

mercruiser drives are in Fwd with the prop locked CCW and in Rev with the prop locked CW for a standard drive. The opposite for the reverse rotation drive So what you are saying is the rotation is looking from front to aft? Correct? If so then the drive would be correct.
The cable pushes for full Fwd and pulls in for full Rev This is how the control cable is working. But the bronze foot is opposite from this on the lower unit.

thats only for a reverse rotation drive .putting the control box in reverse has the shift shoe in a straight line for removal or install

Click to expand...

So this is what is driving me bat crap crazy. Everything works in the correct order. But the shift in the lower unit is reversed somehow. Unless the cables at the shift plate were set up backwards from the repair manual. And I just can't see that being the case.

It really baffles me because I took it apart and it all was working the way it should, as far as push and pull goes. And both of the drives I have (stock and the 165 spare) are exactly the same way.

John

Go to the shift shoe with the prop between you legs facing aft and the input shaft ,well you know straight up and out , if you turnthe brass shoe fully clockwise, the prop should lock CCW, this is Fwd, if you turn is CCW to about 10:00 the prop should lock CW, this is Rev
If this is not obtained the drive need to be split to fix it.

Maybe you are misinterpreting this whole issue.

When in FWD gear you spin the prop C'CW to engage the clutch dog and the prop locks up and will spin the drive C'CW causing the vertical shaft to spin........but when in actual operation the prop is spun CLOCK WISE when LOOKING at it from the back of the boat.

Is this your misunderstanding?


And by the way, If drive is original it would be and I drive.

ONLY The bronze shift arm floats in the upper housing.

ALL OTHER SHIFT COMPONENTS ARE IN THE LOWER HOUSING AND THE GIMBAL HOWSING

Jack, I`m guessing the shaft is turning just the opposite F is straight , and R is to the right onstead of this my mother's hands poem

Well I tried to post a video and it gets to 95% then stops and goes away.

Well it's not working as I'm being told it should. And it worked when taken apart to replace the parts mentioned. And if I can take a 96 Peterbilt apart and it run down the highway carrying 127k lbs with no problems this shouldn't be so hard. I guess the grimlins got into it and ruined it.

John

You say you replaced the impeller, when slipping the upper onto the lower did you turn the lower splined shaft fully clockwise and have the prop locked CCW and lowered the upper so the the brass shoe was in a straight line?

No real need for a video, If the brass shoe in the upper is rotating more than 12:00 clockwise thats your issue, it must move exactly like post 8

Yeah, I put it together and taken it apart several times to make sure it's correct. Dad said we should just sell it and get a direct drive. I guess that would solve this problem.

JHornsby3 said:

Well I tried to post a video and it gets to 95% then stops and goes away.

Well it's not working as I'm being told it should. And it worked when taken apart to replace the parts mentioned. And if I can take a 96 Peterbilt apart and it run down the highway carrying 127k lbs with no problems this shouldn't be so hard. I guess the grimlins got into it and ruined it.

John

Click to expand...

FYI,

You are not the first to post here with a stated background of being a Rocket Scientist and capable of solving world peace but can figure out the shifting or other workings of a Mercruiser I/O.

Take pics of your issue and post if you cant get a video up. Or post the video to YouTube and post a link.

Well I never said I was a rocket scientist and NOBODY can solve world peace. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

I'll see what I can get.

what you are being told by your local guy as to how it SHOULD work, may not be correct... have you ran the boat on the water to see how the shift lever works in relation to the direction the boat moves?...

is the prop LH or RH?... it makes all the difference in the world.

does the shift system work correctly, except that it shifts backwards?.... most remote shift consoles have a provision for reversing the shifting pattern, for when one wants to run a LH prop....

as to it not wanting to shift out of gear, the shift interrupter may be not be working due to switch failure or maladjustment....

the lower shift cable must be free and move very easily... the units do seem to shift easier/more dependably, when the drive shaft is being turned, as opposed to the prop shaft.... and in addition, when the drive shaft is being turned in the correct direction while shifting, its less confusing as to whether it is being shifted into forward or reverse....

looking at the flywheel of the engine from behind the engine, the flywheel will rotate CCW.... which will turn the upper unit input shaft in the same direction.... which in turn, spins the vertical shaft of the drive unit in a CW rotation.... which, again standing behind the boat, will spin the prop shaft CW for forward motion... this is an OEM RH prop installation.

if someone has ever ran a LH prop, it would probably have been changed at the remote shift pod to get the boat to move in relation to the direction of the shift control lever....

centerline said:

the lower shift cable must be free and move very easily... the units do seem to shift easier/more dependably, when the drive shaft is being turned, as opposed to the prop shaft.... and in addition, when the drive shaft is being turned in the correct direction while shifting, its less confusing as to whether it is being shifted into forward or reverse....

looking at the flywheel of the engine from behind the engine, the flywheel will rotate CCW.... which will turn the upper unit input shaft in the same direction.... which in turn, spins the vertical shaft of the drive unit in a CW rotation.... which, again standing behind the boat, will spin the prop shaft CW for forward motion... this is an OEM RH prop installation.

Click to expand...

This makes it make since to me. So it IS working in the correct manner. This is what I wasn't understanding.

It is a right hand prop.

John