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  1. #31
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    Default Re: questions again.... 181ci 4cyl timing problem....

    Quote Originally Posted by mcomm View Post
    So, after all the RMBS, what did you work out for the distributor advance?
    after ALL ive gone thru to get the engine running correctly, I found the centrifugal advance in the distributor to be off.... the distributor is giving 23 degrees when it should be limited to 16 degrees.... I have sent it off to a shop for adjustment/repair....

    if I would of known the information about the engine that I learned thru this fiasco of mine, I would have known the distributor was the cause from the beginning.... we live and learn, while paying the price for not learning it earlier.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: questions again.... 181ci 4cyl timing problem....

    Quote Originally Posted by centerline View Post
    after ALL ive gone thru to get the engine running correctly, I found the centrifugal advance in the distributor to be off.... the distributor is giving 23 degrees when it should be limited to 16 degrees.... I have sent it off to a shop for adjustment/repair....
    Good for you.
    The shop will no doubt spin it on their Sun, Allen or King distributor machine and will correct the limit.
    They will also be able to verify the curve if you provide the data.



    .
    Last edited by RicardoMarine; 04-06-2020 at 02:26 PM.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: questions again.... 181ci 4cyl timing problem....

    Quote Originally Posted by centerline View Post
    after ALL ive gone thru to get the engine running correctly, I found the centrifugal advance in the distributor to be off.... the distributor is giving 23 degrees when it should be limited to 16 degrees.... I have sent it off to a shop for adjustment/repair....

    if I would of known the information about the engine that I learned thru this fiasco of mine, I would have known the distributor was the cause from the beginning.... we live and learn, while paying the price for not learning it earlier.


    There are a few questions left unanswered.

    What distributor do you have? Do you actually know?
    If Delco it should have been 16* by default and really could not be changed to 23* unless modified.

    If it is a Mallory then it should have been 23* and you are modifying it to work as a Delco and the weights and springs may also be different so the advance curve will also be different!!.

    So what is the situation here.

    I have NEVER heard of a OEM 4 cyl Mercruiser distributor having to be modified for and OEM application................NEVER.
    Jack
    Mass.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: questions again.... 181ci 4cyl timing problem....

    Quote Originally Posted by centerline View Post
    after ALL ive gone thru to get the engine running correctly, I found the centrifugal advance in the distributor to be off.... the distributor is giving 23 degrees when it should be limited to 16 degrees.... I have sent it off to a shop for adjustment/repair....
    Looks like the end of the story. Unless Centerline returns with further questions, nothing else needs to be discussed.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Salem Oregon
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    174

    Default Re: questions again.... 181ci 4cyl timing problem....

    so after all my troubles with this engine since I got it 8 months ago, the problem has been resolved... it is the delco remy marine distributor and it was set up incorrectly.... by someone before I got it

    all I went thru searching for the problem was due to not paying attention to the details of the fault when I had it running initially (after getting it home) and realized there was a problem....

    bottom line is, the distributor had 24 degrees advance built into it, when it should only have had 16...

    I think when the PO changed out the 153ci motor to the 181ci, he had the distributor reworked by someone who read the chart wrong (which is what the FIRST guy I had work on it did the first time he worked on it) and got 24 built in the distributor, instead of 16 in the distributor and 8 initial for a TOTAL of 24 degrees advance, "all in"....

    the independent guy that worked it over properly for me, added an extra shaft bushing inside and upgraded the weights and springs to a newer style.... and it now seems to work perfect (on the muffs), and hits the numbers as it should.... all the ramps are closed in this area so I cant get it on the water to give it the "proof" run, but I can now put it aside and work on something else, until the ramps open again...

    the curve is correct as as per the chart, which shows that the advance maintains a steady increase as the rpm rises to 4100, without an actual "curve" to it as seen in an automotive distributor due to the vacuum advance which the marine distributor doesnt have....
    Last edited by centerline; 04-08-2020 at 10:00 PM.

  6. #36
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    Northboro, Ma, USA
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    Default Re: questions again.... 181ci 4cyl timing problem....

    """"I think when the PO changed out the 153ci motor to the 181ci, he had the distributor reworked by someone who read the chart wrong (which is what the FIRST guy I had work on it did the first time he worked on it) and got 24 built in the distributor, instead of 16 in the distributor and 8 initial for a TOTAL of 24 degrees advance, "all in".... """"


    Whether or not he swapped engines, it would appear he tried to make a Mallory out of a Delco in stead of acquiring the correct distributor. (even though it would not be the correct one)
    More than likely as you point to they used the wrong manual/specification and modified the Delco..

    I have never looked into why there is a difference between the two specifications and why the timing is so different.
    My only thought is something in the head/piston combination (or EPA regs) on the newer models forced the chnage.

    Maybe someone on here has looked into this deeper?
    Jack
    Mass.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: questions again.... 181ci 4cyl timing problem....

    Lou, such as in your case, there are those times when a distributor machine becomes a necessary tool.
    I'm glad that you were able to find a shop who has one and could correct this for you.


    .
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: questions again.... 181ci 4cyl timing problem....

    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoMarine View Post
    Lou, such as in your case, there are those times when a distributor machine becomes a necessary tool.
    I'm glad that you were able to find a shop who has one and could correct this for you.


    .
    The correct solution would have been to replace the distributor with one that was never modified and not waste time remodifying the current one.
    OEM apllications should never need a distributor machine.
    This is a replace only situation.
    The total timing is easily seen with a timing light.
    Jack
    Mass.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: questions again.... 181ci 4cyl timing problem....

    Regarding a correct solution..... Centerline's correct solution was to take his distributor to a Technician who then ran it on a distributor machine and corrected the curve and limit via the info that Centerline had provided.


    The trouble with today's young mechanics is that they do not know how to repair a part..... they simply replace it!
    Repairing has become a lost art!


    Regarding total timing being seen with a timing light ....... I believe that is what Lou has done!
    Quote Originally Posted by Centerline
    and it now seems to work perfect (on the muffs), and hits the numbers as it should...



    Good for you, Lou.... I hope that your on-the-water test is fruitful.


    .
    Last edited by RicardoMarine; 04-10-2020 at 06:22 AM.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: questions again.... 181ci 4cyl timing problem....

    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoMarine View Post
    Regarding a correct solution..... Centerline's correct solution was to take his distributor to a Technician who then ran it on a distributor machine and corrected the curve and limit via the info that Centerline had provided.


    The trouble with today's young mechanics is that they do not know how to repair a part..... they simply replace it!
    Repairing has become a lost art!


    Regarding total timing being seen with a timing light ....... I believe that is what Lou has done!





    Good for you, Lou.... I hope that your on-the-water test is fruitful.


    .
    Again your 100% wrong as usual.

    The ONLY answer/solution to this problem is to replace.
    There is no other way to do it properly.

    Modifying an already modified component is back yard mechanics.

    If that is what you are promoting then its obvious you dont have a CLUE.

    Anyone who works or has worked in the business knows, replace.

    marine businesses dont sell used repaired parts, they sell NEW.

    Of course there are exceptions such as carbs etc.But this is not one of them.
    Maybe in Volvo Piece of sh!t world that is how its done...

    But not in the mercruiser world.

    OEM part altered/modified........Replace it with OEM.



    You, again give bad advice....

    What you have completely wrong here is,

    He diagnosed the timing as the issue- then diagnosed the Distributor as the root cause.

    At that point the distributor should have been scrapped and replaced. Not brought to a shop only to be modified again as you suggested.

    Of course what he does in the end is his business and how he chooses to resolve it is his choice.
    YOU should not be pointing to that solution in the open forum.

    Take your opinions and SPEW, OFF LINE in a private message!
    Last edited by kghost; 04-10-2020 at 07:38 AM.
    Jack
    Mass.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Jersey Shore
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    5,908

    Default Re: questions again.... 181ci 4cyl timing problem....

    [QUOTE=RicardoMarine;676653]

    The trouble with today's young mechanics is that they do not know how to repair a part..... they simply replace it!
    Repairing has become a lost art!


    [/QUOTE]

    This is incorrect.... When the part is cheaper than the labor to repair it....You replace it....
    Chris
    Dockside Marine Services
    Jersey Shore.
    Mercruiser/Mercury Certified
    Let the insanity begin.

  12. #42
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    New Tripoli, PA, USA!
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    Default Re: questions again.... 181ci 4cyl timing problem....

    ..."The trouble with today's young mechanics is that they do not know how to repair a part..... they simply replace it!
    Repairing has become a lost art!"

    You said it! And it's really expensive for the poor customer since they charge you for electronic components you just paid for, and weren't necessary.

    Jeff

  13. #43
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    Default Re: questions again.... 181ci 4cyl timing problem....

    Indeed!! I went thru that with my fishing buddy (for his boat) wed.....

    Cost for the hub replacement on his prop - $95.00; price for new prop - $89.00 (with the hub kit).....anybody who ignores the "total cost" is gonna pay for it...

  14. #44
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    Default Re: questions again.... 181ci 4cyl timing problem....

    When the part is cheaper than the labor to repair it....You replace it....
    No disagreement there if you are a Marine repair shop.

    However, consider that most people who ask questions on the forum here intend to do the work themselves, and do not intend to hire a shop to do it for them.
    That is why they come to the forum, such as what Lou has done.

    Lou paid the first guy $100, and his work was unfruitful.
    The second guy was paid $50 to spin it up on his distributor machine, and he got it right.
    I'm sure that he considers the $100 as a loss.


    Sierra Marine YL Series Distributors 18-5315-1 (kettering system) ........ $375.99 retail.



    $375.99 minus $50 = a $325.99 savings.



    Sierra Marine 18-5518 (breaker-less system) .............. $426.99 retail.







    $426.99 minus $50 = a $376.99 savings.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff
    You said it! And it's really expensive for the poor customer since they charge you for electronic components you just paid for, and weren't necessary.


    Jeff, I can't tell you how many times I've read a thread whereby the OP paid a shop to correct an issue, only to learn that after XX amount of parts thrown at it the problem still existed. In the end, the fix was something entirely different, and the owner got stuck with the bill for unnecessary parts/labor.

    As I alluded to earlier........ there are mechanics and there are parts changers.
    Any one of us can throw enough parts at a problem and eventually solve the problem.


    Click and Clack (the New York talk radio Car Guys) once told a caller that they could make their car run like brand new by lifting up the radiator cap, and driving a new car under it.



    .
    Last edited by RicardoMarine; 04-10-2020 at 02:32 PM.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  15. #45

    Default Re: questions again.... 181ci 4cyl timing problem....

    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoMarine View Post
    No disagreement there if you are a Marine repair shop.

    However, consider that most people who ask questions on the forum here intend to do the work themselves, and do not intend to hire a shop to do it for them.
    That is why they come to the forum, such as what Lou has done.

    Lou paid the first guy $100, and his work was unfruitful.
    The second guy was paid $50 to spin it up on his distributor machine, and he got it right.
    I'm sure that he considers the $100 as a loss.


    Sierra Marine YL Series Distributors 18-5315-1 (kettering system) ........ $375.99 retail.



    $375.99 minus $50 = a $325.99 savings.



    Sierra Marine 18-5518 (breaker-less system) .............. $426.99 retail.







    $426.99 minus $50 = a $376.99 savings.





    Jeff, I can't tell you how many times I've read a thread whereby the OP paid a shop to correct an issue, only to learn that after XX amount of parts thrown at it the problem still existed. In the end, the fix was something entirely different, and the owner got stuck with the bill for unnecessary parts/labor.

    As I alluded to earlier........ there are mechanics and there are parts changers.
    Any one of us can throw enough parts at a problem and eventually solve the problem.


    Click and Clack (the New York talk radio Car Guys) once told a caller that they could make their car run like brand new by lifting up the radiator cap, and driving a new car under it.



    .
    For gods sake didn’t James Coyle slap you hard enough earlier in this thread to keep you from arguing with everyone and posting left field sh!t?

  16. #46
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    New Tripoli, PA, USA!
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    Default Re: questions again.... 181ci 4cyl timing problem....

    Loved the "Tappet Brothers" and was horrified to learn Tom had died. Was on their show once, years ago.

    Jeff

  17. #47

    Default Re: questions again.... 181ci 4cyl timing problem....

    Yup, good old Ray and Tom. They were lifters, not followers.

  18. #48
    Join Date
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    Jersey Shore
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    Default Re: questions again.... 181ci 4cyl timing problem....

    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoMarine View Post
    No disagreement there if you are a Marine repair shop.

    However, consider that most people who ask questions on the forum here intend to do the work themselves, and do not intend to hire a shop to do it for them.
    That is why they come to the forum, such as what Lou has done.

    Lou paid the first guy $100, and his work was unfruitful.
    The second guy was paid $50 to spin it up on his distributor machine, and he got it right.
    I'm sure that he considers the $100 as a loss.


    Sierra Marine YL Series Distributors 18-5315-1 (kettering system) ........ $375.99 retail.



    $375.99 minus $50 = a $325.99 savings.



    Sierra Marine 18-5518 (breaker-less system) .............. $426.99 retail.







    $426.99 minus $50 = a $376.99 savings.





    Jeff, I can't tell you how many times I've read a thread whereby the OP paid a shop to correct an issue, only to learn that after XX amount of parts thrown at it the problem still existed. In the end, the fix was something entirely different, and the owner got stuck with the bill for unnecessary parts/labor.

    As I alluded to earlier........ there are mechanics and there are parts changers.
    Any one of us can throw enough parts at a problem and eventually solve the problem.


    Click and Clack (the New York talk radio Car Guys) once told a caller that they could make their car run like brand new by lifting up the radiator cap, and driving a new car under it.



    .

    Shade tree repairs no longer work in the real marine professional service world.......We have more work than we can get done in a short period of time........ We no longer say "Lets see if we can get that old part working" we replace old parts.... No shop or Independent wants a call from a boat owner that they are stuck somewhere or even worse.. Because you saved them a couple of hundred dollars on a part that was modified twice.......
    Chris
    Dockside Marine Services
    Jersey Shore.
    Mercruiser/Mercury Certified
    Let the insanity begin.

  19. #49
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    Default Re: questions again.... 181ci 4cyl timing problem....

    Quote Originally Posted by Docksidemarineservices View Post
    Shade tree repairs no longer work in the real marine professional service world.......We have more work than we can get done in a short period of time........ We no longer say "Lets see if we can get that old part working" we replace old parts.... No shop or Independent wants a call from a boat owner that they are stuck somewhere or even worse.. Because you saved them a couple of hundred dollars on a part that was modified twice.......
    Chris, I fully understand your prospective on this.
    However, Lou (like many others who post their questions here) is not in the Marine repair business.
    He (like many others) is a private party working on either his or on a friend's boat.
    If these people were in the Marine repair business, it would be unlikely that they would post questions here.


    Also, you allude to "modified twice".
    Perhaps what your calling a modification may have been nothing more than the flyweight limits or stops being re-adjusted and/or re-calibrated.

    Again, for those who are in the Marine repair business, like yourself, I understand why you would chose to replace parts rather than re-work or rebuild them.






    .
    Last edited by RicardoMarine; 04-15-2020 at 08:11 AM.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  20. #50
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    Default Re: questions again.... 181ci 4cyl timing problem....

    It`s time to put a lock on this continuing post

  21. #51

    Default Re: questions again.... 181ci 4cyl timing problem....

    Quote Originally Posted by Bt Doctur View Post
    It`s time to put a lock on this continuing post
    No.... Iím waiting for a drawing of the ignition system from the Wright Flyer.

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