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  1. #1

    Default AQ280PT drive shaft/double bearing

    Hi everyone, I have recently purchased a Salem ski boat with a 350chev/Aq280pt package as a project. Totally new to boats so just learning along the way.

    I have read over a lot of post which has given me a rough idea but was hoping someone could clarify some more specific questions.


    I vacuum/pressure tested the drive after finding the oil had water in it. I found that the lip seal on the input shaft was leaking and it appeared that the boat had been used with a torn bellows. Fortunately it has only been used in fresh water.


    After removing the outdrive and the double bearing box I have noticed some issues I would like to fix while it is apart.


    The pds shaft has sealed bearings and the grease has been contaminated by the open bellows. I plan on removing the engine to remove the shaft so I can clean it out and start fresh with new bearings, seals and grease. I have found the information in regards to the correct parts/ installation in other forums. Can I do this with the bell housing still in the transom shield?


    The universal joint crosses feel a bit stiff so I am also going to replace them while it is apart. I have seen the Spicer 5-1306x recommended but they seem to be an obsolete part. So I was planning on using another 7260 series cross with the same dimensions the spicer 5-789x, it just isn’t greaseable but the current ones aren’t anyway. Is there anything I should be weary of when finding a replacement, also are the greaseable ones suitable (strength wise) for the V8 engine?


    When I removed the clamping collar I noticed the four bolts didn’t have any washers, the parts breakdown shows them there. Should I get some to use when reassembling?


    While the double bearing box is out I plan on inspecting/replacing the bearings. I think I have read they are 30207 and 31307 is this correct?


    Reading the manual it gives a prestressed value for the assembly (2.5-5Nm for used bearings, I assume that Nm is actually just N). My understanding is that the value is checked with a spring scale to determine the amount of force required to initially turn the bearings from a stationary position. Is this correct? The current assembly had next to no resistance.


    I don’t have all the Volvo Penta special tools referenced in the manual but assume I can just use some universal drifts and pipe to press the assembly apart, is there anything I should be cautious of when doing so?


    Finally the bolt that holds the input gear to the input shaft is obsolete from Volvo but the manual states it needs to be replaced. It is 7/16 unf and judging buy the torque value it is grade 5. I’m unable find the socket head screw in grade 5.... has anyone used a higher grade or do the later model drives run the same size bolt as I can still buy them.

    Sorry for all the questions, any help would be appreciated!


    Thanks,


    Sam








  2. #2
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    Default Re: AQ280PT drive shaft/double bearing

    ..................
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam C View Post
    Hi everyone, I have recently purchased a Salem ski boat with a 350chev/Aq280pt package as a project. Totally new to boats so just learning along the way.
    The 280 PT will look like this:



    I have read over a lot of post which has given me a rough idea but was hoping someone could clarify some more specific questions.


    I vacuum/pressure tested the drive after finding the oil had water in it. I found that the lip seal on the input shaft was leaking and it appeared that the boat had been used with a torn bellows. Fortunately it has only been used in fresh water.
    FYI...... the pressure leak-down test is performed with the oil drained.

    OEM bellows are better quality.
    Use the Euro style band clamps ONLY!
    DO NOT use the band clamps that have the exposed worm screw cuts in them!

    In the future:
    .....raise the drive no more than need be.
    .....store your drive fully down and aiming straight forward.

    Doing so will extend the life of these bellows.


    After removing the outdrive and the double bearing box I have noticed some issues I would like to fix while it is apart.
    We seldom remove an entire stern drive for this work.
    When going back together, install the Intermediate housing (with the lower gear unit attached) first, then the transmission last.
    You will find this to be much easier.



    The pds shaft has sealed bearings
    If there is a grease port on the flywheel cover at the 12:00 O'clock position, these must be open bearings.

    and the grease has been contaminated by the open bellows. I plan on removing the engine to remove the shaft so I can clean it out and start fresh with new bearings, seals and grease. I have found the information in regards to the correct parts/ installation in other forums.
    The PDS is installed with the new 6206 on it, then the 6007 is installed after that.
    The grease cavity will be pre-filled while turning the PDS.
    Stop ONLY when you see grease exit the ball cages.
    Now and only now will you install the two 35X62X7mm single lip Timken or TCM seals.

    The FWD seal will be glued and staked in place. (if you lose this seal, no future grease will make it to the AFT bearing!

    The AFT seal installs in the Non-Conventional direction! In other words, when installed correctly, you will be able to see the lip and tension spring.
    Reason: we want this seal to breach any excess grease.


    When greasing the PDS bearings in the future, do so with the engine at idle RPM..... (Dynamic -vs- Static lubrication)
    Two or three pumps after or during the engine oil/filter change.


    Can I do this with the bell housing still in the transom shield?
    That would be your "Flywheel Cover", and yes, you can replace the PDS bearings while it is still installed in the transom shield.

    If you remove the flywheel cover, the large rubber cushion rings should be replaced, as well as the triangulation alignment process must be done.


    The universal joint crosses feel a bit stiff so I am also going to replace them while it is apart.
    Good idea.
    These bearing crosses are nothing more than an older Chrysler auto application.
    Spicer 5-1306X is a good choice.


    I have seen the Spicer 5-1306x recommended but they seem to be an obsolete part.
    Yes, if you find them, they will be either over-stock or left over inventory.
    I just found a few of them here;
    https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=5-1306x&_sacat=0

    So I was planning on using another 7260 series cross with the same dimensions the spicer 5-789x, it just isn’t greaseable but the current ones aren’t anyway. Is there anything I should be weary of when finding a replacement, also are the greaseable ones suitable (strength wise) for the V8 engine?
    My story regarding bearing crosses with or without grease fittings is a long one.
    Perhaps another day!



    When I removed the clamping collar I noticed the four bolts didn’t have any washers, the parts breakdown shows them there. Should I get some to use when reassembling?
    Those four special OEM washers provide the sealing at the heads of the cap screws.
    They seal against a very delicate shoulder.
    Find them and use them!


    While the double bearing box is out I plan on inspecting/replacing the bearings. I think I have read they are 30207 and 31307 is this correct?
    Yes, and if you do replace them, DO NOT purchase Chinese bearings.
    Purchase these in a good US, German or Japanese brand bearing.
    Your transmission will use shims (as apposed to a crush sleeve/pre-tension sleeve) for the pre-load control.


    Reading the manual it gives a prestressed value for the assembly (2.5-5Nm for used bearings, I assume that Nm is actually just N).
    DO NOT follow instructions from a Clymers or Seloc manual.
    See the OEM only.


    My understanding is that the value is checked with a spring scale
    Correct! A spring scale pulling on a string that has been wrapped around the bearing box.

    to determine the amount of force required to initially turn the bearings from a stationary position. Is this correct? The current assembly had next to no resistance.
    What we call "run in" or used bearings have little pre-load.
    You will using the pre-load value for "new" bearings.


    I don’t have all the Volvo Penta special tools referenced in the manual but assume I can just use some universal drifts and pipe to press the assembly apart,
    This work can be done without the special Volvo Penta tools.

    is there anything I should be cautious of when doing so?
    Watch closely for the tiny little spring pin that aligns the steel bearing box.
    This pin positions the oiling hole correctly.

    Finally the bolt that holds the input gear
    That would be your "main drive gear".

    to the input shaft is obsolete from Volvo but the manual states it needs to be replaced.
    While the OEM suggests that this cap screw be replaced with new, you can safely clean it up and re-use it.
    Clean both male and female threads.
    Use Loc-Tite on the threads when going back together for the final time.


    It is 7/16 unf and judging buy the torque value it is grade 5.
    NO..... this will not be a grade #5.


    Sam

    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: AQ280PT drive shaft/double bearing

    NOTE: the reason for the grease cavity "pre-fill" (while spinning the PDS), is to ensure that no air is left trapped inside of the cavity.
    We want a full cavity so that any future grease is able to move the old grease from within the AFT bearing's ball cage.
    I suggest using a high pressure grease, not the green/blue Marine wheel bearing grease.


    Also, you can add an 18" grease gun extension hose to the flywheel cover grease port.
    Some of the grease ports are machine threads, some are 1/8" TP.
    The extension hose will be 1/8" TP.
    If yours has the machine threads, they can be chased with a 1/8" TP tap.
    Clean the debris out, and thread the hose into the port.
    Now you can fasten the other end of this hose up near the top of the engine for easy access.
    Do your pre-fill with this hose installed!


    Name:  PDS grease gun extension hose.jpg
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Size:  4.6 KB
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Lorain, Ohio
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    67

    Default Re: AQ280PT drive shaft/double bearing

    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoMarine View Post
    ..................
    I just did this entire procedure last season, and I have pictures of every single step along the way if there's anythin you need or any help you need. Rick helped me out drastically throughout the process and I learned a ton.

    But, if there's anything you'll need reference pictures for or anything like that, feel free to ask and I'll happily post whatever you need.

    My setup is a 305 (AQ225D) with AQ280-PT, so it should be identical as long as you have the red flywheel housing too.
    1984 Sportcraft 250 Fisherman Hardtop
    AQ225D 305 with an 280-PT Duoprop

  5. #5
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    Posts
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    Default Re: AQ280PT drive shaft/double bearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam C View Post
    Hi everyone, I have recently purchased a Salem ski boat with a 350chev/Aq280pt package as a project. Totally new to boats so just learning along the way.

    I have read over a lot of post which has given me a rough idea but was hoping someone could clarify some more specific questions.


    I vacuum/pressure tested the drive after finding the oil had water in it. I found that the lip seal on the input shaft was leaking and it appeared that the boat had been used with a torn bellows. Fortunately it has only been used in fresh water.


    After removing the outdrive and the double bearing box I have noticed some issues I would like to fix while it is apart.


    The pds shaft has sealed bearings and the grease has been contaminated by the open bellows. I plan on removing the engine to remove the shaft so I can clean it out and start fresh with new bearings, seals and grease. I have found the information in regards to the correct parts/ installation in other forums. Can I do this with the bell housing still in the transom shield?
    Yes, you can do this with the bell housing still in the shield. The hardest part is getting the large/industrial strength C-Clips out. So, use some super-strength industrial c-clip pliers OR be very careful when using other ingenuity to get them out as they are extremely strong.



    The universal joint crosses feel a bit stiff so I am also going to replace them while it is apart. I have seen the Spicer 5-1306x recommended but they seem to be an obsolete part. So I was planning on using another 7260 series cross with the same dimensions the spicer 5-789x, it just isn’t greaseable but the current ones aren’t anyway. Is there anything I should be weary of when finding a replacement, also are the greaseable ones suitable (strength wise) for the V8 engine?


    There are quite a few crosses that can be used/cross referenced. The ones I used for mine are MOOG 315g (2 of them) as they are Heavy Duty Semi Truck quality and they are identical to what was pulled out. Be careful on what orientation you put them in at before you clip them in finally, as the grease fitting will need to be facing an easily accessible direction should you desire to grease them every couple seasons or so when changing bellows.

    When I removed the clamping collar I noticed the four bolts didn’t have any washers, the parts breakdown shows them there. Should I get some to use when reassembling?


    While the double bearing box is out I plan on inspecting/replacing the bearings. I think I have read they are 30207 and 31307 is this correct?


    Reading the manual it gives a prestressed value for the assembly (2.5-5Nm for used bearings, I assume that Nm is actually just N). My understanding is that the value is checked with a spring scale to determine the amount of force required to initially turn the bearings from a stationary position. Is this correct? The current assembly had next to no resistance.


    I don’t have all the Volvo Penta special tools referenced in the manual but assume I can just use some universal drifts and pipe to press the assembly apart, is there anything I should be cautious of when doing so?
    I did 100% of my entire outdrive rebuild, PDS main shaft refresher, and all other work without a single VP tool. Just be smart and think things through before you do them so you don't muck anything up by getting in a hurry, and you'll be fine.


    Finally the bolt that holds the input gear to the input shaft is obsolete from Volvo but the manual states it needs to be replaced. It is 7/16 unf and judging buy the torque value it is grade 5. I’m unable find the socket head screw in grade 5.... has anyone used a higher grade or do the later model drives run the same size bolt as I can still buy them.

    Sorry for all the questions, any help would be appreciated!


    Thanks,


    Sam







    Hopefully this little bit of info helps.
    1984 Sportcraft 250 Fisherman Hardtop
    AQ225D 305 with an 280-PT Duoprop

  6. #6

    Default Re: AQ280PT drive shaft/double bearing

    Hi Rick, thanks for the response.


    I didn’t consider removing the upper transmission only but it makes sense now you mention it. I will try it out when I re-install. Removing the whole leg did give me a chance to inspect everything so not entirely wasted which is good.


    There is a grease port on the flywheel cover so I will use the open bearings when re-assembling. I plan on using a high speed EP grease, is there any in particular that I should use?


    Thanks for the link to the bearing crosses, I should mention I’m in Australia and they are much harder to find. Might just have to pay the freight to get them shipped.


    I think the manual I have is the oem one, I attached a picture of the front cover.


    I’ll attempt to make some progress mid next week (next days off) thanks for all the information, it has been very helpful!


    Regards,


    Sam


    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #7

    Default Re: AQ280PT drive shaft/double bearing

    Hi Walleye4days, thanks for the response.

    Great to hear that you successfully did the rebuild, any information/photos you have will be appreciated. Ill keep this thread updated as i go. I'm sure I will learn a lot along the way.

    Good to know that other crosses are an option, i did find a lot of suitable cross references to the spicer 5-1306x just wasn't sure if others had tried them.

    I'm glad that the special tools aren't essential to work on the drive! I bought the boat as a project/hobby so I'm happy to take my time and just work my way through it.

    Regards,

    Sam

  8. #8
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    Default Re: AQ280PT drive shaft/double bearing

    Sam, the OEM may give you several options for the rolling torque value and the procedure. Be sure to use the correct one and that you understand it.

    One procedure may call out for a center-force rolling torque value (using the center bolt and an inch-pound torque wrench), while another one may call out for the string pull (string wrapped around the housing and with a weight scale).

    It will also call out a spec for new bearings and for what they call “run-in” bearings.

    Also, when removing the old large bearing (31307), you will need to cut the roller cage away, exposing the inner race.
    This race will have a very small lip for a race puller fixture to grab. Often two weld beads must be added (180 apart) for the fixture to grab onto what is essentially a very small lip.

    As the weld beads cool, they will shrink the race some, so get it into the press immediately before it has a chance to cool and shrink.


    .
    Last edited by RicardoMarine; 02-21-2020 at 07:06 AM.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  9. #9

    Default Re: AQ280PT drive shaft/double bearing

    Thanks for the tips Rick,

    The prestressing (rolling torque) procedure was one of my concerns. The manual states:
    3. Rotate the bearings a couple of turns to allow them to ”set”. Check the prestressing with a spring scale and a piece of string, tied around the bearing housing. The prestressing should be 5–10 Nm (3.69–7.38 lb.ft.). Should the prestressing be too low, press the roller bearing carefully a bit harder and if the pre- stressing is too high, release the roller bearing some- what.
    NOTE! With run-in bearings the prestressing should be 2.5–5 Nm (1.84–3.69 lb.ft.).

    My understanding is that with the string wrapped around the assembly it should take the specified amount of force to turn the bearings (vertically mounted). What I wasn’t sure about is whether this is the initial force required to start turning the bearings or should it be a constant as the bearing is turning as I see you refer to it as rolling torque? Also the manual has the value in Nm but I assume that just referring to Newton’s? I.e 250g-500g approx comparatively on the spring scale for run in bearings?

    I did check the current assembly but found it had no measurable resistance on the spring scale. So I wasn’t sure if I was doing it wrong. Sorry for the ignorance but it’s not something I want to get wrong. Any clarification would be appreciated.




  10. #10
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    Default Re: AQ280PT drive shaft/double bearing

    In case you need this
    http://www.jachtenonderlinge.nl/uplo...290_290-dp.pdf

    Speaking with OLD mercruiser experiance you would oil the bearings , wrap about 6-8 turns of string around the shaft and hook up the fish scale and using a constant pulling read the Lbs on the scale.

    Second method is to use a inch/lb torque wrench and a shaft extension

  11. #11
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    Default Re: AQ280PT drive shaft/double bearing

    .................
    Quote Originally Posted by Bt Doctur View Post
    In case you need this
    http://www.jachtenonderlinge.nl/uplo...290_290-dp.pdf

    Speaking with OLD mercruiser experiance you would oil the bearings , wrap about 6-8 turns of string around the shaft and hook up the fish scale and using a constant pulling read the Lbs on the scale.
    All due respect Bt Doctur..... the string will actually wrap around the circumference of the bearing box, not around the shaft.
    The Universal Drive Shaft would be held in a bench vice.

    NOTE: On page 52, the manual shows the string pull being done on an "A" transmission.
    The A and later transmissions use an integral Aluminum Bearing Box/Clamping collar.
    The OP's 280 uses an all steel bearing box with a separate aluminum clamping collar.


    Second method is to use a inch/lb torque wrench and a shaft extension
    I’m not aware of any Volvo Penta conversion table for converting the rolling string pull method (in pounds of string pull) to a center-rotational torque value.
    Last edited by RicardoMarine; 02-23-2020 at 10:15 PM.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: AQ280PT drive shaft/double bearing

    .............
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam C View Post
    Thanks for the tips Rick,

    The prestressing (rolling torque) procedure was one of my concerns. The manual states:
    3. Rotate the bearings a couple of turns to allow them to ”set”.
    That is correct, and the bearings and the seal must be oiled.


    Check the prestressing with a spring scale and a piece of string, tied around the bearing housing.
    Correct! That would be the "bearing box".

    The prestressing should be 5–10 Nm (3.69–
    7.38 lb.ft.
    The string pull measurement will be in pounds-of-pull.
    Foot pounds would represent center-rotational-force.... as in a center-rotational torque rating that would be acquired by using a torque wrench.

    The Volvo Penta engineers have done the math for us by converting this into a string pull measurement. I.E., string wrapped around the circumference of the bearing box.



    Should the prestressing be too low, press the roller bearing carefully a bit harder and if the pre- stressing is too high, release the roller bearing some- what.

    NOTE! With run-in bearings the prestressing should be 2.5–5 Nm (1.84–3.69 lb.ft.).
    Your 280 transmission
    (w/ an all steel bearing box) uses shims to control the bearing pre-load.
    (the A and later transmissions use a "crush sleeve" aka "pre-tension sleeve")

    These 280 shims are just inside of the "seal surface" washer.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Reduce the shim pack value, and the rolling torque value will increase.
    Add to the shim pack value, and the rolling torque value will decrease.

    And yes, if the rolling torque value is too great, you will want to:

    .... gently press (or drive against it with brass only) on the FWD end of the main drive gear (releasing the pressure by a few thousands only).
    .... increase the shim value by .001" or .0015" .
    .... re-assemble, tighten the bolt and test again.



    My understanding is that with the string wrapped around the assembly it should take the specified amount of force to turn the bearings (vertically mounted).
    What I wasn’t sure about is whether this is the initial force required to start turning the bearings or should it be a constant as the bearing is turning as I see you refer to it as rolling torque?
    Correct!
    This will be the force required once the bearing box begins to spin.
    In other words, you will see a greater initial force required (to start the spin).
    After the bearing box begins to spin, that will represent your actual rolling torque value!



    Also the manual has the value in Nm but I assume that just referring to Newton’s? I.e 250g-500g approx comparatively on the spring scale for run in bearings?

    I did check the current assembly but found it had no measurable resistance on the spring scale.
    What you checked was your existing rolling torque value for your "run in" or "used bearings".
    Depending on the engine's horse power and the hours of use on the transmission, often this value will be very minimal.

    Imagine the work load that the 31307 bearing undergoes..... especially with V-8 power!






    .
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  13. #13

    Default Re: AQ280PT drive shaft/double bearing

    Thanks for the response Bt Doctur,

    Fortunately I do have the manual but just wasn’t sure I was interpreting it correctly.

  14. #14

    Default Re: AQ280PT drive shaft/double bearing

    Hi Rick,

    Thanks again for the response, very helpful. That has clarified it 100%. Next step is to have a go!

  15. #15
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    Default Re: AQ280PT drive shaft/double bearing

    Ricardo, never worked the on volvo drives and never hope to but thanks for clearing it up for the poster.
    Ricardo, the string pull method is very close to the rotational force needed. If there was a way to support the housing and turn the gear with a inch/lb torque wrench .
    Last edited by Bt Doctur; 02-24-2020 at 07:36 PM.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: AQ280PT drive shaft/double bearing

    ..............
    Quote Originally Posted by Bt Doctur View Post
    Ricardo, never worked the on volvo drives and never hope to
    Ed, the AQ series VP is among the most user friendly to work on. I hope that you do get a chance to work on one someday.

    but thanks for clearing it up for the poster.
    You bet!

    Ricardo, the string pull method is very close to the rotational force needed. If there was a way to support the housing and turn the gear with a inch/lb torque wrench .
    There is a way to do that.

    But I digress for a moment.
    Both the bearing box circumference string pull and center bolt torque, create a rotational force that will allow us to gauge a pre-load.
    However, unless you are a very savvy engineer, there is no published cross-over that I am aware of that would allow us to convert string pull (@ X diameter) to a rotational torque value.
    In other words, if the string pull (wrapped around X" diameter bearing box) requires a 3.5 pound pull, that's how the engineers gauged it.

    In order to use an Inch-Pound torque wrench on the center bolt,
    I suppose that you could do the math and come up with an inch pound torque value!
    I.E., X diameter bearing box X's string pull force = inch pounds torque.
    After all..... 50 ft lb of torque = the force that would be created by placing a 50 lb weight on a horizontal bar that is connected to a bolt, not, rod, shaft, etc that is at a 12" radius from the center axis.

    Here's a dictionary definition of one ft lb torque:
    A pound-foot (lbf⋅ft) is a unit of torque (a pseudovector). One pound-foot is the torque created by one pound of force acting at a perpendicular distance of one foot from a pivot point. Conversely one pound-foot is the moment about an axis that applies one pound-force at a radius of one foot.

    Here's the definition of one inch pound torque:

    Similarly, an inch-pound (more correctly written as pound-inch) is the torque of one pound of force applied to one inch of distance from the pivot, and is equal to 112 of a pound-foot. It is commonly used on torque wrenches and torque screwdrivers for setting specific fastener tension.

    SI units: ≈ 1.355818 N⋅m






    Bottom line for the OP here........... stick with the string pull and scale for the 280 with the steel bearing box.


    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

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