Logo
FULL SITE MENU

65 HP Model

B

BobRitter

Member
Just picked up a 65 HP Johnson OB, plus boat and trailer. The model number and serial don't seem to jive with the coding schemes I have found. I don't know much about it but the boat was last tagged in 2005. I was told that the motor was in the shop and running just over a year ago. Motor appears old but not ancient and in good shape. The model etc. is on the metal tag on the shaft.

Model 65ESL72S Serial J3659137 They are a bit hard to read but I think that's correct. Any help appreciated. Thanks Bob, Pensacola, FL
 
That would be a 1972 model.------It has electric shift along with " battery powered " electronic ignition.--------You might want to look into a factory manual to help you maintain that motor.-----The electric shift scares a lot of folks but I know that it is a very well built system.
 
Agree that a factory service manual is a necessity if you plan working on it yourself. However, if you get into the ignition system you will quickly find that the manual is obsolete. Fortunately, CDI has updated ignition procedure on line.

Test the compression on that motor before spending any coins. They had problems.
 
Ordered what I thought was the correct manual but not sure. It's a SELOC 1973-1982 Johnsonn/Evinrude 65HP thru 235HP. If mine is 1972 is it OK? So far wiring diagrams and pics seem to match. Racerone indicated it was "battery powered " electronic ignition. The manual doesn't seem to agree.
So far I have verified that
1. Key switch seems to be good.
2. Key to starter circuit is good and the thing will crank.
3. Manual specifies an S80 neon tester for the coil check but that is no longer available. Says coils should put out 300 volts AC. I disconnected the coil leads #4 and #5 from the power pack like the test in the manual and tested voltage across the leads with volt meter. 80 volts. The manual specifies inserting tester between the leads, crank engine and tap the "B" load button on the tester Don't have the tester so??? Seems like I should read 300 volts but not sure.
4. NO SPARK on any cylinder- If this is a battery powered ignition different than my manual I'll need the correct one. I couldn't find anything on web. Anyone have a link or suggestions for what I should do next? Other than give up and hire a pro. I'm to old and obstinate for that and haven't given up YET.
Any help greatly appreciated.
 
1972 65ESL72 is not battery powered CD. It is Mag CD.

Yes the neon tester is obsolete. Good riddance Go to the CDI website for up to date procedures. You will need a peak-reading voltmeter to do it right. Having a senior moment and can't think of the name CDI calls it. It'll come to me in the middle of the night.

Does your motor have a yellow cable plug?
 
Last edited:
DVA meter? My neighbor has a 1972 50 hp. He put it away for the winter and it had been running great. Next spring (2018) no spark. I got him a used power pack the night before their family trip. Bingo....spark. Still okay.....will see this spring.
 
Last edited:
I found several videos about making one yourself. Just a circuit board with a couple components but I'm a complete idiot with electronics so I ordered one. Only about $25 on EBay. The videos show how to test charge coils, power packs, discharge coils and basically the entire system. It's not as overwhelming as it seems once you break it down and learn a bit. Actually just about anything is easy once you know how.
 
Trash the Seloc as it will confuse you....makes good TP though.. All you have to test is the stator output and timer base outputs, if they are in spec the pack is bad. Also make sure you remove kill wire from pack when testing to eliminate key switch and plugs are removed to get full cranking RPM.
 
All good so far.
Now to the carbs. Boat sat in the woods for unknown time but I suspect at least a few years.
Pulled the carbs, gunk in the bowl of 2, the third looked OK. Unscrewed the needle valves and the little red retainers had rotted away. Went to marine parts and got 3 retainers and 3 needle valve bearings, those tiny little white nylon hooties. The bearings had been on the shelf so long the crumbled to pieces. Went back for refund and their mechanic said I don't really need them anyway, saved $40. Finished cleaning and put everything back together. Now when I try to crank it pops and fires, a tiny bit, but won't really try to start. Spark plugs wet and gas dribbling out of the 2 bottom carbs. Pretty sure it's flooding out. Thought it might be the needle valve but I shut them completely and no change. Probably float problem but but any suggestions short of totally rebuilding carbs?

Sorry about the long post. Bob
 
Probably gonna need full and careful carb cleaning and float needle valves. Make sure to clean all jets to correct size.....they may look open, but will still be too small......partially plugged with hard greenish deposits from old gas and moisture. Use a welding tip cleaner along with CRC Throttle Body Cleaner/Spray. Careful, it's strong stuff.
 
Also, Bob, you might want to flush out all lines leading to carbs, clean and/or replace filters and screens. Deposits could be present from old fuel all the way back to tank.
 
OK! I'm almost wooped. Replaced needle valves and seats, cleaned everything, I think, and put it back together. It pops and chugs and smokes and gas is now pouring out of all 3 carbs. Something is wrong with the needle valve system. Normally blowing into gas input and raising and lowering the float will stop the flow into the bowl. Didn't seem to do that on any of the 3 carbs and the carbs are flooding. Replaced all 3 needles and valves. Really though I knew how the needle valve was supposed to work and I've rebuilt 100s of small engine carbs, mowers, generators etc. and thought these carbs were basically the same. Any thoughts greatly appreciated. Thanks Bob Ritter, Pensacola, FL
 
Hard to believe that all 3 leak.-----Did you have a manual ?-----Did you set floats level / parallel with carburetor up side down.
 
racerone said:
Hard to believe that all 3 leak.-----Did you have a manual ?-----Did you set floats level / parallel with carburetor up side down.
Click to expand...
Is there a removable seat that the needle valve seats into? With the floats off I inserted the needle valves, pushed them in and blew into the fuel line. The needle valve DID NOT seem to do much. I've done that same thing 100 times with carbs and the needle valves always close the line into the bowl. I did set the floats correctly according to the instructions that came with the carb kits. One other thing. The idle mixture screws. What is a good initial setting? I have them at 3/4 turn from fully closed. Don't think that has anything to do with the gas leak. Like I said I've worked on 100s off carbs and these have me beat.
 
Oh Bob, what could be wrong? Did you replace both needles and seats? If you do carbs, these should be as simple as it gets. I think your motor takes the good old 396521's (set). Maybe you received the wrong parts. Preliminary adjustment for low speed is about 1 turn, if I remember.
 
Last edited:
timguy said:
Oh Bob, what could be wrong? Did you replace both needles and seats? If you do carbs, these should be as simple as it gets. I think your motor takes the good old 396521's (set). Maybe you received the wrong parts. Preliminary adjustment for low speed is about 1 turn, if I remember.
Click to expand...

TIMGUY,
1 turn seems about right. 1 to 1 1/2 is the norm for most carbs. Yes I replaced both the needle and seat and you are so right that these are super simple. I really am stumped but I'm very tenacious (stubborn, bull headed) and will beat it.

The parts in the new kit appeared to be the same as the old but I guess someone before me may have put in the wrong parts. Doesn't seem likely.

I'm going out this morning and pulling the top carb, the easiest. I will put a short piece of fuel line, and blow. With the bowl empty the needle valve should be open. I'll then turn carb upside down and blow. This SHOULD close the needle valve. If not it seems like the float adjustment is wrong although I sure thought I had it correct. Does this seem reasonable?

Did the experiment and found the needle valve does not shut the fuel completely off. Took out the seat and it appears that the needle valve works but there is another path for the fuel. Never seen that before.

Found a video of rebuild and it sure seems like I did it right.

Just noticed on breakdown #8 Jet-Main. See pic. carb3.jpgDon't seem to have it and no replacement in the carb kit.

carb1.jpg
carb2.jpg
 
The main jet is in the bottom of the bowl.----I am sure it is in there, look for it.----Slow speed needle initial setting needs to be reviewed in your factory manual.
 
If there is a main jet in there it is deep inside and I can't see it. A piece of wire goes easily thru to the bottom of the syphon tube.
Is it normal if you crank for an extended time, 20-30 seconds, for gas to start seeping out of the carbs? I sure think I did the rebuilds right, set the float levels correctly but it still only pops and farts and smokes and after a bit gas starts dribbling out of all 3 carbs.

As always thanks for the help. Bob
 
Main jet is behind that cap screw in the float bowl facing forward. You use a flat blade screwdriver just the right size, to remove the screw. The jet is not your flooding problem anyway. That hole your pointing to in the gasket is not the concern it is for a different purpose. The other hole, which is a fuel passage, is a concern because any fuel passing through could enter the chamber and if there is a leak between the hole and the float chamber it could flood the motor. Perhaps the float bowls are warped enough that the screws tighten before that hole is sealed between the float bowl and the carb body. I also note that the float appears to be off center and possibly rubbing the starboard side of the carburetor. Sounds stupid but it looks awfully close to the carburetor body and perhaps could top out there before completely closing the needle.
 
Last edited:
racerone said:
If you are cranking for 20 or 30 seconds you are damaging the starter !!!
Click to expand...
Ya I know. Beginning to think it might not be
carbs. I replaced the power pack, it tested bad, and now has spark on all 3.
I'll retest the stator and timer base resistance and DVA. They tested more or less OK. It does pop and smoke so it's getting at least some spark but perhaps weak.

I can't seem to add an image but on the CDI "Installation and Troubleshooting Guide" in the test for stator and timer base it has "OEM Ohms" and "CDI Ohms". What's the difference?
 
This doesn't make sense, Bob. With what you have said, and especially in post #20, there IS a serious carburator problem. When the carburetor is inverted and turned upside down it must turn off the fuel flow (or lite air pressure as you indicated) into the float chamber.
 
timguy said:
This doesn't make sense, Bob. With what you have said, and especially in post #20, there IS a serious carburator problem. When the carburetor is inverted and turned upside down it must turn off the fuel flow (or lite air pressure as you indicated) into the float chamber.
Click to expand...
Timguy - That is what I thought. Turn carb upside down and can sill blow into fuel line. The float needle DOES seat and seal. I took out the seat and needle and the needle definitely sealed. Raising and lowering the float definitely makes a difference, you can tell the needle is seating but you can still blow easilt into intake. If it wasn't for this damn COVID thing I'd check around with the local boat shops for a known good carb to compare to. Every carb I've even worked on the needle totally stopped the fuel. I haven't had a boat for years so I guess this one can wait until the country opens back up. Thanks again for your interest. I'll keep updating as anything changes. Bob
 
I never make mistrakes.<br>
So a couple new things: I played with the needle and seat and they DO work as you would expect. There was however a problem. The old needle DID NOT use the little wire clip to attach to the float and didn't have the groove in the needle to attach it. The needle and seat in the rebuild kit came in a separate bag without the clip. The clip was mixed in with all the other tiny parts and I missed it. I installed the clips and they now work. Now the bad part: The carbs leak even worse. The old needles must just depend on gravity and fuel pressure to open. I tried to attach a pic but that won't work either. I've done it before.

Timguy: I swear there is no main jet. I removed the large headed screw and there is nothing there unless it is buried dead inside the channel going to the syphon tube in the middle of the bowl. The float looks off because the carb it sitting crooked, it's OK.
What other hole are you referring to? In the pics there is only the hole I'm pointing to and the mounting holes. I think.

I really appreciate all your help. If I can't get this thing going I'll have to decide how much I'm willing to spend on almost 50 year old outboard.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top