EST distributor problem?.. no timing advance or shift assist

I believe I am having a problem with my new distributor...

in my previous thread titled "older 4 cyl mercruiser identification", I had some great information to help me find out what this engine is, and then I outlined the problem I was having with the engine timing.
after double checking with the suggestions I received without finding the cause, I went into the engine to check the gears and cam for proper indexing.

I found the cam it was built with to be a re-ground cam, which normally shouldnt be a problem, and I dont know if this re-grind had anything at all to do with the cause of the problem, but as I had it apart, I purchased a new marine cam and lifters install in the engine, and then indexed it to insure it was correct.
then installed the engine back in the boat.

the other change that was made was to purchase an EST distributor to replace the old "points" distributor, as I questioned the mechanical advance curve that was in the old one... and now it seems to run great. it starts easy, it idles smooth and has great throttle response ( I havent taken it to the lake yet)....

but as im attempting to time the distributor according to the instructions in the manual (I believe im following the procedure correctly) there is no change happening when the white wires are connected vs disconnected from each other (neither in sound or timing marks) which, following the directions should allow me to time it at 1degree BTDC, and then after disconnecting the 2 white wires, it should automaticallyu advance itself to about 8BTDC.... and be good to go (after readjusting the carb)...

nothing happens whatsoever by connecting or disconnecting the white wires, or unplugging the timing device from the the distributor...

when power is applied to the black wire, and the white wires become disconnected, the engine dies, which I know is normal (black wire goes to shift assist circuit after modifying the shift assist circuit with battery + power)

does anyone have any suggestions as to where to problem may be with getting the timing to set correctly, either in my procedure or with the EST system?.... Thank you

after reading several posts from other treads and forums, I can only guess that the distributor module is bad... it seems to be kind of a common thing with these distributors when setting them up initially.. I will purchase another one and see what happens...

it is not a problem with the module... the new module made no difference.

is there any 'advance function' in the modules that you have?

im not sure what you mean by "is there any advance function in the module"....

I replaced the module with a new one from the autoparts store, and neither the original one that came with the dist or the new one can be set to service mode, and without being timed according to the directions, the old one has NO advance as the rpm is increased, and the new one will only advance 5 degrees...

I am not sure if the pickup coil has any bearing on the module "advance" function, or if it is solely a trigger mechanism that either works or it dont....

when I was at the autoparts store, I had them check to see if there were modules of this style with different advance curves, but they could find nothing other than different styles/shapes of modules for different models of distributors.

I have found some instructions on troubleshooting the delco EST distributor (module, pickup coil and coil pack) which I will get to around noon today.

accidentley made a double post im attempting to delete

when the engine is running normally, do you see any difference, in the ignition timing, between IDLE and 4000 RPM?

you can do this in neutral but if on a hose, don't keep the RPM elevated for any duration...

as I mentioned, the old module had NO advance as the rpm was increased, and the new module has only 5 degrees... this is from idle up to where the engine starts sounding funny due to the lack of advance (about 3000rpm).... when I manually rotate the distributor, it will smooth out and sound great, but then if i dont turn it back as the rpm drops, it wont hardly idle...

the pickup coil just provides a trigger function when the EST is used in stand alone mode.

the timing advance is all done by the module in the same state.

The EST module advance starts quite early (low RPM) and many installations will only see 12 degrees of timing advance....5 deg sounds a bit short.

I'd be inclined to contact your source and tell them you need a new module...

how does the module know what engine its on? v8 engines seem to take a different advance curve than the 4 cylinders, yet the module part numbers are all the same no matter if its a L4, V6 or V8 engine.... apparently, the L4 engine is supposed to be initially set in (service mode) at near 0TDC, (give or take a degree)... and then when put back into run mode the advance shown on the balancer will be 8-10 degrees BTDC... with maximum advance being 22 degrees...
my math shows this to mean the module will give the system and additional 12 to 14degrees to the system when the rpm is increased to 4000 which is the spec rpm for "full in" advance, and NOT the full 22 degrees added to the base timing of 8 degrees (which would then be 30 degrees, all in)

I can only "guess" that the module is capable of supplying 22 degrees of advance to cover any of the motors it was designed for, but its when its "placed into service mode" and the base timing is set according to the spec for the engine, its then that the module knows what engine its on and what it is supposed to do and when... (too bad I cant get it to go into service mode)

are automotive modules different, as the autoparts stores want $40 for them, the marine stores want anywhere from $75-200 for them, and Ebay has them for $12.95, free shipping... I fully understand if it says marine on the packaging, it commands a higher price, but the question pertains to, is the contents of each of the differently labeled packages any different from each other?..... if it works as I believe it does, it would mean there is no difference in the actual modules themselves, but only the price....



I cant find anywhere that explains this, and the EST troubleshooting page doesnt cover it... top secret stuff?.....

..............

centerline said:

how does the module know what engine its on?
I'm not sure that it does, nor if it cares.

The EST distributor creates the triggering event. Your 4 cylinder engine module will receive 4 triggering events per 720 degrees of crankshaft rotation.

Keep in mind that with EST, the triggering event occurs at/near full ignition advance.
The Module then progressively delays the spark event as required per engine RPM.
Each cylinder sees the progressive delay as "spark" or "ignition" advance!
See *** below.

v8 engines seem to take a different advance curve than the 4 cylinders,
Correct!

yet the module part numbers are all the same no matter if its a L4, V6 or V8 engine....

apparently, the L4 engine is supposed to be initially set in (service mode) at near 0TDC, (give or take a degree)... and then when put back into run mode the advance shown on the balancer will be 8-10 degrees BTDC... with maximum advance being 22 degrees...
If those are your OEM advance curve numbers, you will want to see those numbers when you strobe your timing marks.

my math shows this to mean the module will give the system and additional 12 to 14degrees to the system when the rpm is increased to 4000 which is the spec rpm for "full in" advance, and NOT the full 22 degrees added to the base timing of 8 degrees (which would then be 30 degrees, all in)
Correct!

Read the notations in this curve graph below.
Note the verbiage at the vertical scale!

NOTE: this is an example curve graph ONLY

I can only "guess" that the module is capable of supplying 22 degrees of advance to cover any of the motors it was designed for, but its when its "placed into service mode" and the base timing is set according to the spec for the engine, its then that the module knows what engine its on and what it is supposed to do and when... (too bad I cant get it to go into service mode)
The module actually creates a spark event delay that is progressively seen as "ignition advance"..... but basically... yes, that would be correct!


are automotive modules different, as the autoparts stores want $40 for them, the marine stores want anywhere from $75-200 for them, and Ebay has them for $12.95, free shipping... I fully understand if it says marine on the packaging, it commands a higher price, but the question pertains to, is the contents of each of the differently labeled packages any different from each other?..... if it works as I believe it does, it would mean there is no difference in the actual modules themselves, but only the price....
I would stay with the Marine version.

*** I cant find anywhere that explains this, and the EST troubleshooting page doesnt cover it... top secret stuff?.....
EST = Electronic Spark Timing.
There is no mechanically advancing apparatus to this system.

And yes, it is tough to find any good articles that allow the reader to actually understand how EST works.
Most of what Merc provides does not go into detail regarding the delay function that is necessary for this to work.


EST incorporates a non mechanically advancing ignition distributor. In other words, the distributor shaft and the triggering unit are locked into a 1:1 relationship, unlike the mechanically advancing systems.
The laws of physics prevent us from creating a remote electrical event any earlier than it was triggered, so what do we do to solve this problem?

We trigger the event earlier than needed, then we add a delay to it using electronics.
We make the delay progressive, so that it will offer the correct spark event per RPM.
This delay is provided by the module.

Click to expand...

.

today I called Michigan Motorz and they said the 4cyl motors are sometimes very difficult to get into service mode.... the guy also said the module purchased from the automotive store would work just fine if its not a faulty module....

I took the module back and exchanged it yet again.... and it still acts the same way.

it only attempts to get service mode if I quickly and momentarily touch the hot wire to the black "service" wire... but will not stay in service mode.

BUT.... as I had a helper today, while he was holding the timing light on the marks, I could strike the hot wire against the black wire coming from the distributor service plug, and the timing marks on the balancer would advance (as seen by the timing light) but as quickly as it advanced, it would fall back to its original position... I looked for a short in the wire and moved it around, but no change... there is a hiccup in the idle when this happens, and it was doing it yesterday as well, but I wasnt holding the timing light on the marks to see if it was changing....

I have the engine idling at 1000 rpm and the distributor turned to set the TDC mark on the balancer at 0 degrees... when I strike the wires together, the TDC mark jumps about 20 degrees, but falls right back... so I know this module is capable of advancing, but it wont advance anymore than 5 degrees when I increase the rpm of the motor.

its been said that one can time it by setting the total all in advance (22deg) at the spec rpm, and it will be nearly as close as setting the base timing.... but when I set the timing at the "all in" mark (22deg advanced) with the engine running at 3000rpm, when I bring the engine fall back to idle, the timing stays where it was when running at 3000, so it doesnt retard as the rpm drops either...

the guy at michigan motorz said to try retarding the distributor as much as possible with the engine running about 1200rpm, and then try to get it into service mode... but nothing happens.
he said to disconnect the tack wire, and to test the incoming voltage to the coil for at least 12volts.... all of this was done, but no change.

the battery+ wire that im using is connected directly to the battery and has 14.2 volts.... could this too much voltage for the module, and not allowing it to go into service mode?... because it wants to go in to service mode when I strike the wires together without making a direct connection, it seems as if it could be possible, yet I would think they allowed for more voltage fluctuation than this...

its no wonder the boat sat for 20 years without running properly...

I have EST distributors on my Crusader 350 c.i. V-8 engines purchased several years apart. Like you, the module one distributor came with didn't go into service mode so I replaced it with another - a no-name from eBay. It was no better. It had something like 6 degrees advance up to 1800 RPM and above that 12 degrees. There was no obvious change between service mode and run mode.

After a lot of Googling, I found that the part number for the genuine AC Delco module is D1965A. This AC Delco part number cross-references to the Crusader part number for the years when EST was standard equipment. I purchased and installed the OEM module and no more problems getting into service mode. It's heavier than the two previous knock-offs I tried.


Good luck

I will take back the aftermarket units and try the genuine AC Delco part and see if it makes a difference.... thanks

It can only help.....the other item that may help is to slow your idle as much as you can.....the internal 'advance' function starts at low RPM and has a pretty steep slope.

makomark said:

It can only help.....the other item that may help is to slow your idle as much as you can.....the internal 'advance' function starts at low RPM and has a pretty steep slope.

Click to expand...

the module that came with the distributor is a GM module, but it may be faulty...

Ive tried to get it into service mode at a high idle, at a low idle, and with the distributor advanced as far as it can go and still run, and distributor retarded as far as it can go, and all combinations of each, without success..... but it does advance momentarily when i first touch the batt+ wire to the service wire on the distributor, but it wont stay there...

Im sure I will eventually get it as soon as I exhaust all the ways and combinations that DONT work....

centerline said:

I'm sure I will eventually get it as soon as I exhaust all the ways and combinations that DONT work....

Click to expand...

And that my friend is using the P of E.... (process of elimination)!
Hang in there...... you will get it sorted out!

I have purchased and installed the genuine AC Delco ignition module in the EST distributor...

now it does something more than it did with the aftermarket module, but im not sure if its right...

first......... this 4cyl engine HAS to be idling at 1800 or above for the module to go into service mode. (im not confident that it can calibrate properly at this rpm).... (after it is placed into service mode, and if the idle is reduced, it pops out of service mode)

second....... the distributor timing has to be real close to its final mark before the module will go into service mode (before attempting service mode, the distributor has to be adjusted so it reads between 6 and 10 BTDC, THEN it can be placed in service mode)

third....... when it goes into service mode, it retards itself, and shows 3-4 BTDC.... I then adjusted the distributor to show 1 BTDC (as per spec).... after removing the service plug, the timing jumps and shows 8 BTDC.... which is correct from what i understand.

fourth........ after turning the idle down to spec, the timing (as seen with the timing light) jumps back and forth from 8 to 4 btdc, with 8 being where it spends about 2/3rds of its time....

fifth....... when the idle is increased slowly, it will stop jumping from 8 to 4btdc, but as the throttle is increased to 3500rpm, it will only show it to be advancing to 12 BTDC.... NOT 12 plus the 8 initial, but 12 degrees BTDC total advance....

will the reading ever show the 25 degrees BTDC when running on the muffs, or does it need to be working hard, such as pushing the boat thru the water?

these EST distributors are supposed to be the best and most dependable of this type, but its a PITA to get it set up when the instructions only tell you the procedure that is supposed to make it work properly, and NOTHING about what to do when it doesnt work like its supposed to, or the numbers arent being shown as per the specs.....

It doesn't need to advance at idle so why are you worried about that?
If it's not working the way it's supposed to that means it's broken. Replace it. Seems you've already wasted more time and effort than a new one costs.

Fist of all,
The post above with the timing graph is not the one for your engine. Even though it is noted it is miss leading and because he has no Merc manuals then no product specific information as usual!!!!!! BAD/Incorrect/Misleading INFORMATION FROM THE [P.C.R.]

Below are exerts from the Merc service manual.

The three different "if initial timing is" is based on ignition module part number and the following notes!!

If you are purchasing Automotive parts that may not line up.





Module Part Number: 811637
Module Advance: See Notice
Initial Timing: 1° BTDC-1 / 1° ATDC-2 / 2° ATDC-3
Total Advance: 23°
1. Serial number break: 0L340999 and below unless specified differently below
2. Serial number break: 0K001529 - 0L097000 Timing changes to 1° ATDC only if engine experiences a cylinder
head gasket failure that has blown out toward the intake exhaust manifold on the port side of the engine.
3. Serial number break: 0L341000 and above.

Based on the differences in base settings it appears that they are trying to control something by setting the base timing lower (ATDC with jumper installed)
So I suggest a base of 0* for your set up unless you have info on prior head gasket issues or you have the serial numbers as listed in the notes above. (you do not list any real info other than EST ignition!!!)


Steps.

1. start engine and let warm up get idle to around 700 rpm and if difficult try to adjust distributor and idle setting to get to this idle RPM.
Once there Insert jumper. IDLE SHOULD BE WITH NO JUMPER Around 700 RPM (Specification is 650-750 in gear in the water).

2. Set base timing (with jumper installed) to (0 degrees, this is KEY) and lock down distributor and disconnect jumper. This puts you basically in the middle of the spec from info above.
This is all you can do.

3. with timing light still connected and jumper disconnected refer to info below. You should see at ~ 2400 rpm the timing mark at ~ 12* BTDC. This is TOTAL advance as controlled by the module (initial +advanced as controlled by module).

Nothing more to see or do. If you see this then you have to assume it is working correctly until you do a water test under load.



The numbers below are with the JUMPER removed.



4. With timing light still connected, start the engine and run at IDLE. Verify that timing did
advance to :

• If initial timing is 1° BTDC: 12° BTDC, plus or minus 2°.
At 2400-2800 rpm maximum (total) advance is obtained and should be 23° BTDC (plus or minus 2°).

• If initial timing is 1° ATDC: 14° BTDC, plus or minus 2°.
At 2400-2800 rpm maximum (total) advance is obtained and should be 25° BTDC (plus or minus 2°).

• If initial timing is 2° ATDC: 15° BTDC, plus or minus 2°.
At 2400-2800 rpm maximum (total) advance is obtained and should be 26° BTDC (plus or minus 2°).

.........................

centerline said:

I have purchased and installed the genuine AC Delco ignition module in the EST distributor...

now it does something more than it did with the aftermarket module, but im not sure if its right...

first......... this 4cyl engine HAS to be idling at 1800 or above for the module to go into service mode. (im not confident that it can calibrate properly at this rpm).... (after it is placed into service mode, and if the idle is reduced, it pops out of service mode)


second....... the distributor timing has to be real close to its final mark before the module will go into service mode (before attempting service mode, the distributor has to be adjusted so it reads between 6 and 10 BTDC, THEN it can be placed in service mode)

third....... when it goes into service mode, it retards itself, and shows 3-4 BTDC.... I then adjusted the distributor to show 1 BTDC (as per spec).... after removing the service plug, the timing jumps and shows 8 BTDC.... which is correct from what i understand.

fourth........ after turning the idle down to spec, the timing (as seen with the timing light) jumps back and forth from 8 to 4 btdc, with 8 being where it spends about 2/3rds of its time....
Are you using a digitally advancing timing light?
If so, is it a high quality light?
Are you using a digitally advancing timing in Standard mode?


fifth....... when the idle is increased slowly, it will stop jumping from 8 to 4btdc, but as the throttle is increased to 3500rpm, it will only show it to be advancing to 12 BTDC.... NOT 12 plus the 8 initial, but 12 degrees BTDC total advance....
That would be incorrect!
See the example curve graph in post #11.

will the reading ever show the 25 degrees BTDC when running on the muffs, or does it need to be working hard, such as pushing the boat thru the water?
To the best of my knowledge, there are no sensors that would gather data indicating engine "load" or "no load".

these EST distributors are supposed to be the best and most dependable of this type, but its a PITA to get it set up when the instructions only tell you the procedure that is supposed to make it work properly, and NOTHING about what to do when it doesnt work like its supposed to, or the numbers arent being shown as per the specs.....

Suggestion: return it and purchase and install a mechanically advancing electronic ignition system.
If you can find one that uses VR (variable reluctor), you will have a great system.

Click to expand...

Sierra International 18-5518 I/L 4 Sierra International Electronic Distributor Conversion Kit for Delco EST Distributors
$251 through Amazon.
This is NOT an EST system! This is a mechanically advancing system!

https://www.amazon.com/Sierra-International-18-5518-Distributor-Distributors/dp/B015E8S7XO

It is basically a Mallory unit labeled as Sierra.
There is no data that would indicate whether this unit is VR or photo eye.
VR would be my choice.
Most all ESTs are photo eye anyway.

................

kghost said:

Fist of all,
The post above with the timing graph is not the one for your engine. Even though it is noted it is miss leading and because he has no Merc manuals then no product specific information as usual!!!!!! BAD/Incorrect/Misleading INFORMATION FROM THE [P.C.R.]

Calm down!
It was clearly noted in my post that the curve graph was an "Example Only".
There was nothing misleading about that at all!

Read it again if you missed it the first time.

Click to expand...

RicardoMarine said:

................

Click to expand...

Everything you post is misleading
QUOTE FROM PCR ABOVE POST.

""fifth....... when the idle is increased slowly, it will stop jumping from 8 to 4btdc, but as the throttle is increased to 3500rpm, it will only show it to be advancing to 12 BTDC.... NOT 12 plus the 8 initial, but 12 degrees BTDC total advance....
That would be incorrect!
See the example curve graph in post #11.
Again incorrect and misleading information

Wrong again......................and again and again.

As I included in my MERC manual exert (which you do not have, obviously) it clearly states that the timing shown (with no jumper) is 12* BTDC which is TOTAL ADVANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One last note;

If you disconnect the shift interrupter lead, DO NOT PLUG IT INTO THE BASE TIMING LEADS!!!!!!!!!!!! EVER!

I have purchased and installed the genuine AC Delco ignition module in the EST distributor...

now it does something more than it did with the aftermarket module, but im not sure if its right...

first......... this 4cyl engine HAS to be idling at 1800 or above for the module to go into service mode. (im not confident that it can calibrate properly at this rpm).... (after it is placed into service mode, and if the idle is reduced, it pops out of service mode)


second....... the distributor timing has to be real close to its final mark before the module will go into service mode (before attempting service mode, the distributor has to be adjusted so it reads between 6 and 10 BTDC, THEN it can be placed in service mode)

third....... when it goes into service mode, it retards itself, and shows 3-4 BTDC.... I then adjusted the distributor to show 1 BTDC (as per spec).... after removing the service plug, the timing jumps and shows 8 BTDC.... which is correct from what i understand.

fourth........ after turning the idle down to spec, the timing (as seen with the timing light) jumps back and forth from 8 to 4 btdc, with 8 being where it spends about 2/3rds of its time....
Are you using a digitally advancing timing light?
If so, is it a high quality light?
Are you using a digitally advancing timing in Standard mode?

No he is using a light bulb with a couple of jumpers.............

OMG what does this have to do with his issue? PCR!!!
Misleading and uninformative.
His timing light may not be a $1000 professional unit and may be a simple Sears Craftsman $50.00 unit therefor, it is not working as it should? Giving wrong information? Sure go spend a few more hundred dollars for a "HIGH QUALITY LIGHT"...............ugh!
Why not send him your high dollar, high tech timing light?



fifth....... when the idle is increased slowly, it will stop jumping from 8 to 4btdc, but as the throttle is increased to 3500rpm, it will only show it to be advancing to 12 BTDC.... NOT 12 plus the 8 initial, but 12 degrees BTDC total advance....
That would be incorrect!
See the example curve graph in post #11.
See my comments on this, WRONG again! No product specific knowledge or factory manual to give proper and accurate information! Can cause you to second guess and possibly make a serious mistake when setting timing!

will the reading ever show the 25 degrees BTDC when running on the muffs, or does it need to be working hard, such as pushing the boat thru the water?
To the best of my knowledge, there are no sensors that would gather data indicating engine "load" or "no load".

This is the problem "to the best of my knowledge" What knowledge? Certainly not Mercruiser! Unless EFI or TBI there are NO sensors inputting information to the ignition .............as there is no CPU
The only external input is Shift Interrupter Switch.


these EST distributors are supposed to be the best and most dependable of this type, but its a PITA to get it set up when the instructions only tell you the procedure that is supposed to make it work properly, and NOTHING about what to do when it doesn't work like its supposed to, or the numbers arent being shown as per the specs.....

Suggestion: return it and purchase and install a mechanically advancing electronic ignition system.
If you can find one that uses VR (variable reluctor), you will have a great system.



Really? This is your fix? Purchase a brand new system? Of course that will fix what ever is wrong every time! PCR again!

Jack, year 2020 is almost here. It's right around the corner!
Would it be possible for you to make a New Year's resolution in that you put your EGO down, and be kind and adult like here on the forum?
You'll be a better person if you do!


(never before have I seen a forum member who is so threatened by another member's posts or post counts.... it's ridiculous!)



.

I appreciate all the time, trouble and thought everyone has gone thru in an effort to help me solve this problem, and after wading thru the "entertainment" in the last few replies, let me answer a few questions that has been asked... no matter if they are relevant or not.

the AC Delco module I purchased has a ACD part number of as it is printed on the ACD box it came in, D1943A... below that is the GM part number of 19179578.
I have no idea how this correlates to a sierra or merc part number, but I purchased it from a marine supply in florida, who had it listed for the GM181 engine, so I can only assume it is the correct module....

as to the serial number of the engine, I am assuming the base timing to be set according to the serial number of a fully stock engine as it was delivered from the factory... this engine is a rebuild using an '87 block with the newer "vortec" head.... so regardless of the serial number on the block, I am assuming I should use the newer timing spec for it.... maybe this is incorrect, the cam, the head, and now the distributor is correct for what they call the vortec version of the 181, which is why I think I should be using the newer spec, AND, because I will never use anything but ethanol free gas in it, I think a degree or so shouldnt make too much difference in the base timing... BUT, the fact is, I have the GM engine block code, but when I deciphered it, it tells me the year and what the block is, but it did not give a serial number for it, nor is it stamped on the block in any of the locations that GM says it should be, ONLY the code on the pad at the base of the distributor

and this statement puzzles me a little...
"If it's not working the way it's supposed to that means it's broken. Replace it. Seems you've already wasted more time and effort than a new one costs."...... , what should be replaced? the module, the distributor, the engine or the boat?.... seriously, the EST distributor is a simple device that rotates to distribute a spark to the correct cylinder, and it does that fine, but the module is the brain of the advance function, which is what ive been having issues with, and ive replaced it 3 times already, so what else should be replaced that might make a difference?....

at any reasonable idle, the module will NOT go into service mode.... the engine has to be running at 1800 or a little above for it to go into service mode, and as it wont go into service mode at an idle, then it cant be set.... and believe me, I have tried many times.
BUT, at this time it is working like step 3 of post 20 (kghost).. but, in post 20, im not understanding what seems to be conflicting information from step 3 to the first point (1°BTDC) in step 4....

I am not using an advancing type of timing light... as mentioned earlier, the balancer has been checked for accuracy and I do have the balancer marked correctly to 25degrees advanced... this method has always worked fine for me in the past, and although I have tried a few of the advancing timing lights, I have never spent more than $100 dollars on one and learned quickly to distrust them... better quality may be better, but in my line of work the advancing function on a timing light is 99.9% unnecessary anyway....

I have never tried (and will NOT) connecting the shift interrupt lead to the white service mode leads.... the black wire from the service plug is used for the shift interrupt function.....

tomorrow I will recheck everything to make sure im seeing the same as I seen last week when I was able to get it into service mode, and if it looks the same, we will go to the lake....
on the plus side, it sure does start and idle nice now... cold or warm, when the key makes contact, the engine jumps to life without hesitation...

You have a much higher tolerance for pain than I do. I value my wrenching time at a rate of at least $100/hr. If I take that into account, then troubleshooting has to happen fast or else.
If you wish to spend hours and hours futzing with a dodgy dizz, knock yourself out. I woulda dropped coin on a replacement distributor and be out doing some serious time-wasting on the water.
Does that help clarify?

o2batsea said:

You have a much higher tolerance for pain than I do. I value my wrenching time at a rate of at least $100/hr. If I take that into account, then troubleshooting has to happen fast or else.
If you wish to spend hours and hours futzing with a dodgy dizz, knock yourself out. I woulda dropped coin on a replacement distributor and be out doing some serious time-wasting on the water.
Does that help clarify?

Click to expand...

I agree. you are correct in this respect, and I can appreciate the wisdom in it...

but there is more to it than that.... this is not for a customer, but for me, so time is not as important on this project.
this style of distributor is such a simple mechanical device that its easy to see there is nothing wrong with it, but the brain of the thing may have issues, and so it seems replacing the brain would be the answer.... and maybe it was but I havent given it a trial run in the water yet.

in addition, its not just making the thing run, but when I encounter a problem, I want to learn the WHY of it.... its an education you cant get by throwing parts at it hoping the problem solves itself somewhere along the way... on a customers job, the goal is a bit different, as we need to get it up and running asap, but on my own stuff I have the patience to explore the problem a little more in depth... im in no hurry with this, as I have a nice boat for "wasting" time on the water....

Ha ha ha ha ha I don't know where you get the idea that I'm some kind of professional! Not. But your time is not open ended nor is it of zero value. Whether you are turning wrenches for yourself or someone else, labor is labor.
As for learning, yeh OK, I get that. Experience comes from making lots of mistakes.