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  1. #1

    Default Ford 302 - Possibly Wrong Rotation

    New to forum and inboard boats and not too astute to boats overall, but trying to learn.

    I've been looking into a late 60's Lyman. I've been advised that there was an attempt to do an engine change in which the prior owner may have purchase and engine with the wrong rotation. Bit difficult to get things clear because a wife is selling after a divorce.

    From Lyman history information, it seems likely the original engine (apparently is still with the boat) was a 289. The prop is lost so direction can't be identified by that element of the drivetrain.


    1. If one has an incorrect rotation engine, will the transmission function properly or can it be made to function properly by simple methods?
    2. Will a prop oriented to the engine rotation solve the situation?
    3. Will a rotation differing from the original manufacturing rotation have negative impact on how the boat handles?


    Thanks in advance for any assistance.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Ford 302 - Possibly Wrong Rotation

    without knowing more details its is hard to answer any of your Q's with any accuracy. knowing what gear(s) is present would help...

    Best bet is to assume the worse case regarding the drive line.... especially if its a divorce sale.....

    And make sure the hull is sound....

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Ford 302 - Possibly Wrong Rotation

    ....................
    Quote Originally Posted by My68Lyman View Post
    I've been looking into a late 60's Lyman. I've been advised that there was an attempt to do an engine change in which the prior owner may have purchase and engine with the wrong rotation. Bit difficult to get things clear because a wife is selling after a divorce.
    OK.... Std LH rotation and REV RH rotation engines have been used for years. Not so much today.
    Engine rotation is determined by viewing the flywheel end, regardless of the installation. I.E., flywheel facing AFT or flywheel facing FWD.



    Neither rotation would be considered incorrect unless the engine was installed on the wrong side of the boat.


    From Lyman history information, it seems likely the original engine (apparently is still with the boat) was a 289. The prop is lost so direction can't be identified by that element of the drivetrain.
    Can you get the starter motors working? If so, and if they are correct for each engine, that will let you know which rotation each engine is.
    Another method would be to look at the distributors.
    Both LH and RH engine ignition distributors will rotate in the same direction. However, the firing order will be reversed for the RH rotation engine.



    1. If one has an incorrect rotation engine, will the transmission function properly or can it be made to function properly by simple methods?

    Often we will see "opposite of engine rotation" capable transmissions. These are typically used whereby both engines are Std LH rotation, but the Starboard propeller is spun in the RH direction.




    1. Will a prop oriented to the engine rotation solve the situation?

    Again, you would need to learn the engine rotation and if the transmission is "opposite of engine rotation" capable.



    1. Will a rotation differing from the original manufacturing rotation have negative impact on how the boat handles?

    If the hull was designed to spin the Starboard propeller in the RH direction, and the Port side propeller in the LH direction, yes it would affect the hull's handling.
    In other words, if both props spin in the same direction, the hull may walk sideways a bit at low speeds.


    Thanks in advance for any assistance.

    I would start by getting power to the starter motors, and look at which direction they crank the engines.
    (Keep in mind that rotation is viewed from the flywheel end, not the front end! )


    A few more questions:

    How are these engines orientated? Flywheel end facing AFT..... or flywheel facing FWD?

    Are these straight shaft drives, or an early version of a V-drive?



    .
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Ford 302 - Possibly Wrong Rotation

    Thanks for the detailed response Ricardo. I should have mentioned this is a single engine inboard boat. The fact two engines were mentioned is that the original engine
    (probably 260 or 289)
    was retained by the owner, at least in long block form, and a replacement purchased (302). Apparently, that is when the reverse rotation issue came up. So at the moment no engine is in this boat. I don't have direct access to the boat at the moment. I will dispatch a surveyor for a hull check and they can unwind the mystery of the engines, its transmission setup and so forth.

    I'll update when I know more.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Ford 302 - Possibly Wrong Rotation

    Well, that certainly puts a damper on my previous post!

    Ask the Mechanical Surveyor if the transmission is "opposite of engine rotation" capable. If so, you can go with a Std LH Rotation engine.
    Also find out what series Ford engine would have been OEM in this boat back in the year that it was manufactured.

    If the transmission is Borg Warner flywheel cover capable, you can go with a 335 series Ford W in perhaps in a 5.8L .


    .
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Ford 302 - Possibly Wrong Rotation

    Do not reinstall a Ford based marine engine in this boat if you purchase it.
    Chris
    Dockside Marine Services
    Jersey Shore.
    Mercruiser/Mercury Certified
    Let the insanity begin.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Ford 302 - Possibly Wrong Rotation

    Good point!
    If there is no engine in it now, I would go with a GM SBC.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Ford 302 - Possibly Wrong Rotation

    Ricardo and DocksideMarineServices,

    Thanks for the updated comments. Please elaborate on the issues with the Ford based Marine engines and the positives of the GMCs when you have a moment.

    Thank you,

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Ford 302 - Possibly Wrong Rotation

    Ford has been out of the marine field and most parts are no longer made. If the transmission is still in the boat rotation can be verified by just looking at the front of the pump. If the trans has been removed , look at the front of the pump for the direction

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Ford 302 - Possibly Wrong Rotation

    click to enlarge

  11. #11

    Default Re: Ford 302 - Possibly Wrong Rotation

    You guys are all great. I appreciate the info a great deal.

    Boat Doctor - The diagram is missing a bit of its text when opened and enlarged. I see Pump Assembly, Bolts and then CAS over ARR which I can't discern. I also see "Top" in two locations top and bottom and direction arrows with those. Can you explain a bit more what I am looking at in terms of identifying the direction of rotation for the transmission?

    Thank you!

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Ford 302 - Possibly Wrong Rotation

    I would suggest that after you have this boat in your possession;

    .... you identify the transformation for us. That way we can more accurately describe the pump’s rotation.
    .... you will be able to post some pictures for us.
    .... one of us may see something and may offer some suggestions.


    As for the 335 series Ford -vs- the GM SBC, parts and complete or partial engines are more readily available for the SBC.
    The SBC heads breathe better than the Fords..... in particular with regard to the exhaust ports.

    Both are good engines.
    Both engines are Borg Warner flywheel cover capable.
    Either will mount to your boat's stringers.
    Both engine exhaust systems can be made to work with your hull.

    However, given a choice, I would go with the GM small block Chevy!


    By the way, if the transmission is opposite of engine rotation capable, and if you wish to spin a RH propeller, it will be slightly less expensive to build or to purchase a Std LH Rotation engine.






    .
    Last edited by RicardoMarine; 12-03-2019 at 07:54 AM.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Ford 302 - Possibly Wrong Rotation

    Thanks again Ricardo. Very helpful information. I will hold off until I have something concrete to offer. Hopefully that will be sometime in May. I just received a photo of the 302 engine, which is wrapped for protection and it is apparently either newer or rebuilt. In any event, stay tuned and Lord willing I'll report back in 2020. Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Ford 302 - Possibly Wrong Rotation

    Looks like the 302 is pretty complete....

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