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missnancy

missnancy

Regular Contributor
Good morning everyone, I have a quick question about starters. I have a 350 cu/in Chevy engine and I want to get a spare starter. The fella who I deal with on these is recommending a geared starter rather then the old school one I have right now. He tells me that will do the same thing my old one does but drawing less power and it will be lighter. Any opinions?
 
Ayuh,..... Ya don't need a gear reduction starter, but,.....

The new permanent magnet starters are 1/2 the weight, 'n nearly twice the power as the old traditional chevy starters,.....

'n Chevy starters only come in 2 flavors, straight bolt pattern, 'n staggered bolt pattern,.......

Yer's is Probably of the staggered pattern flavor,.....
 
On the inboards, I've found the newer gear reduction units are easier to install and remove as well...the motor housing is smaller in diameter, so much so that you can usually put a socket on the nuts without using the offset wrenches.....
 
missnancy said:
Good morning everyone, I have a quick question about starters. I have a 350 cu/in Chevy engine and I want to get a spare starter. The fella who I deal with on these is recommending a geared starter rather then the old school one I have right now. He tells me that will do the same thing my old one does but drawing less power and it will be lighter. Any opinions?
Click to expand...

The HTGR/PMGR (high torque gear reduction/permanent magnet gear reduction) starter motors will out perform the old non-gear reduction motors hands-down.
Chrysler has been using a high torque gear reduction starter motor since the 60s.

These spin the armature up to 3 Xs faster, and draw less amps.
Cranking RPM is increased.

Now.... here's the kicker for the engine block mounted style:
Not all use steel reduction gears. Some with a planetary reduction system use a nylon ring gear. You want to avoid this type.
Richard at Seamanufacturing in Florida has the good ones for the asking.
Anything from DB Electrical has the nylon ring gear.

Here's kicker #2:
The diameter of the flywheel (ring gear tooth count) determines the starter motor nose housing type.
Staggered bolt pattern for the 168 tooth, and straight across bolt pattern for the 153 tooth.


Kicker #3:
Not all nose housings today are the same, of which means that the mounting bolt length much be correct for each starter motor nose housing.
Using bolts that are too long = bottoming out before fully clamping the nose housing to the cylinder block, resulting in broken bolts.

Kicker #4:
Inboard starter motors are also available in a HTGR/PMGR style, but vary re; 2 bolt vs 3 bolt mounting.
As with the other motors.... watch out for the planetary reduction systems using the nylon ring gear.

The best ones use all steel reduction gears.

Example of an all steel reduction gear unit:

shopping





 
Ayuh,..... This is what I'm talkin' 'bout,......

Direct drive, No gear reduction,....

41mFA8w83oL.jpg

photo is for reference only.
 
bondo said:
Ayuh,..... This is what I'm talkin' 'bout,......

Direct drive, No gear reduction,....

View attachment 22306

photo is for reference only.
Click to expand...


Bill, the above style uses the planetary reduction system, and most likely uses the nylon ring gear.
Commonly called the HTGR/PMGR .... or Mini Starter among the auto guys!



These styles below are non-gear reduction..... in other words, direct drive or straight through.

AED031SN-01.jpg


 
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makomark said:
On the inboards, I've found the newer gear reduction units are easier to install and remove as well...the motor housing is smaller in diameter, so much so that you can usually put a socket on the nuts without using the offset wrenches.....
Click to expand...

2x on this. The 5 minute starter swap. They are also available for counter rotation.
 
RicardoMarine said:
Bill, the above style uses the planetary reduction system, and most likely uses the nylon ring gear.
Commonly called the HTGR/PMGR .... or Mini Starter among the auto guys!



These styles below are non-gear reduction..... in other words, direct drive or straight through.

AED031SN-01.jpg


Click to expand...

Nope,..... I've taken one apart,.... Permanent magnet motor, direct drive to the bendix,.....

I've been usin' nothing but, for 5 or more years now,.....

Yer photo above(post #4) is gear reduction,......
 
Note the center line of the pinion gear shaft and the armature on the planetary reduction motor.
Note the offset of these on the spur gear reduction motor.

Starter motors planetary vs spur gears.jpg

Here is an old school non-reduction motor.
Note the large housing and armature.



Starter motor.jpg




Bendix is a company name, and was associated with the Bendix drive starter motors of years ago.
The Bendix drive is still used on electric start lawn mower engines, jet skis, wave runners, outboard engines, snowmobile engines, motorcycle engines, etc.

People tend to confuse the old Auto and Marine Bendix drive starter motor pinion gear with the later sprag clutch pinion gear that was perhaps made by the Bendix company.


The Bendix style pinion gear (left side) is kicked out by quick rotating armature action via the steep spiral cut shaft splines.
The solenoid/lever action pinion gear (right side) is kicked out by the solenoid actuated lever.

starter motor pinion drive types.jpg




.
 
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The bottom picture shows what i have now and going with what is said I think I am going to try the new style. I know with the old style its ussualy a 30 minute job unless I run into some other issue. I appreciate all the feed back guys, have a good thatnks giving and be safe.
 
Missnancy, if this is a cylinder block mounted starter motor, and if you go with a HTGR/PMGR unit, make dang sure that you get the correct length bolts with it.
 
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