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'85 8hp Johnson Not Pumping Water

Mark4six

New member
Hello All,

A former co-worker gave me the aforementioned outboard early this season. It runs very good and I'm quite happy with it. At the start of my last outing, I noticed very little water exiting the tell tale, so I shut it down. Upon restarting the engine, zero water appeared at the tell tale. Luckily I had my trolling motor with me so I was able to salvage the day. Anyway, days later I go to change the water pump, and observe that the impeller and associated components are in good shape, but I changed them anyway. I fired the engine up today using water muffs, and still no water at the tell tale, also checked to see if the hose itself is clogged, but it wasn't. After some research, I see that there is a rubber grommet located somewhere along the water tube that swells up and blocks the water flow up into the engine.

So my questions are: What should my next step be in the troubleshooting process?

If I do need to tear the engine apart to replace this grommet, how long of a task, in hours, would it take for a mechanically inclined individual? Any special tools needed?

I cannot find this grommet in schematics, does anyone have a part number for it?

Thank you for your time,

Mark
 
Hello All,

A former co-worker gave me the aforementioned outboard early this season. It runs very good and I'm quite happy with it. At the start of my last outing, I noticed very little water exiting the tell tale, so I shut it down. Upon restarting the engine, zero water appeared at the tell tale. Luckily I had my trolling motor with me so I was able to salvage the day. Anyway, days later I go to change the water pump, and observe that the impeller and associated components are in good shape, but I changed them anyway. I fired the engine up today using water muffs, and still no water at the tell tale, also checked to see if the hose itself is clogged, but it wasn't. After some research, I see that there is a rubber grommet located somewhere along the water tube that swells up and blocks the water flow up into the engine.

So my questions are: What should my next step be in the troubleshooting process?

If I do need to tear the engine apart to replace this grommet, how long of a task, in hours, would it take for a mechanically inclined individual? Any special tools needed?

I cannot find this grommet in schematics, does anyone have a part number for it?

Thank you for your time,

Mark

Yes there is a grommet at the top of the water tube that causes the problem....... A real PITA .. The engine's equivalent of an enlarged prostate ... blocks off the pee stream!

You will have to remove the powerhead complete with inner exhaust tube, then remove that to remove the watertube and grommet.

I start by removing the lower unit ... again then the power head. It might be possible to pull it apart without removing the lower unit but I think reassbly would be difficult if not impossible.

You can check on the grommet by pushing a stout wire up the water tube. If it hits something solid all is well with the grommet but if you can feel something rubbery up there then that is the swollen grommet

The parts diagrams on this site are useful to look at The grommet is #75 in the midsection diagram, part number 0324045

You will find a manual on the Boatinfo website which covers the model. Sorry MarineEngine will not allow a link but they will sell you the (Seloc) manual.

I got so fed up with it that I modified my engine with a combination of O rings and nylon spacers
 
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The water pump is not "Self Priming". The water level must be above the water pump in order for it to function.

You obviously know where the pump is located. Is the water level a couple inches above the pump housing?
 
Thank you guys for the replies!

Vics, I will try that test with a wire up the water tube soon, I'll post the results.

Al, I ran the engine with just the muffs in the driveway today, but I previously had the long shaft version of the same outboard and the muffs allowed the engine to pump water up through the engine, so I'm assuming there's an issue elsewhere.

Thanks again fellows
 
Just FYI, you cannot test a water pump by running on muffs. The pump is not pumping when you are doing that, only allowing hose water to pass through. But ok, yes if it won''t go through at all, it could be plugged up. Or not enough water from the hose/muffs.
 
Thank you guys for the replies!

Vics, I will try that test with a wire up the water tube soon, I'll post the results.

Al, I ran the engine with just the muffs in the driveway today, but I previously had the long shaft version of the same outboard and the muffs allowed the engine to pump water up through the engine, so I'm assuming there's an issue elsewhere.

Thanks again fellows

Surely you cannot run this model on muffs at all! There is no water intake that the muffs will connect with. The water intake is the little perforated tube behind the propeller. Item # 24 in the gearcase parts diagram. It must be run in a tank or barrel with the water level well above the top gearcase joint to ensure the water pump is submerged. Sort out how you are testing this before you start tearing it apart again.

convert
 
Hello again,

I'm calling them muffs, but they are not the traditional type, perhaps it has a different name. This item slips over the intake and is held in place by a bracket, I guess it's meant specifically for this type of outboard. I'll try to find a pic.
 
The "Motor Flusher" I have is made by Tempo and is # 956 OMC. I can't find the exact model online, but this is similar in design to it

tempo.jpg
 
The "Motor Flusher" I have is made by Tempo and is # 956 OMC. I can't find the exact model online, but this is similar in design to it

Not something that's bit like a pair of ear muffs then

81F+ZiShc9L._AC_UL320_ML3_.jpg


On the face of it it should be suitable for your engine , but the hose pressure should force water through even if the water pump is knackered so not a test for the pump.

If you are sure your Temp gadget is fitting the water intake well I reckon its back to looking at that grommet
 
Have you blown back through the pee indicating tube to make sure the blockage is not in the fitting? Seems odd that the supply tube grommet would fail so quickly and while underway. Is it certainly overheating? I like those ear muffs, Sir Vic, where can I get some? Getting cold here in Northern Minnesota.
 
Hey Vics,

I performed your trick today with a stiff piece of wire, and once the wire was up inside the tube, around where it meets the bottom of the engine, it seemed to get stuck, and as you described, it had a rubbery feel. Once I pulled it out some water came along with it. I will now place an order for the grommet, however, I'm coming up with a different part # than the one you provided. #75 in the mid section schematic is coming up as 0330426 and not 324045 . Were you looking at the schematic for an '85 8hp?

Thanks bud
 
Sorry
330426 is the correct number... I must have been looking at the parts list for my '84 model

Always quote your model number when ordering parts. The people I buy from usually ask for it.

You will probably also need a new exhaust housing gasket. #91 in the diagram

BTW rock the powerhead forwards and backwards to break the joint ......... the inner exhaust tube stops it from being rocked sideways ......
 
Thanks again Vics, I greatly appreciate the help. On a side note, I notice at idle the motor shakes and shimmies side to side, but the lower end is stable. There must be some worn bushings somewhere. It doesn't really bother me, but if I am taking this thing apart, I might as well change it/them. I briefly scanned the schematics but I can't seem to locate any such bushings. Could you shed some light on what I am experiencing? Not to derail my own post, but I have one more unassociated issue if you don't mind. I just replaced the fuel pump and it is thicker than the existing one. I am now unable to easily situate the cowl and lock in into place because it hits the thumb screw that holds the fuel filter screen to the pump. Certainly others have had this problem because I've read that most aftermarket pumps (I got a Sierra one) are thicker than stock.

Timguy, I didn't blow back through the fitting, that's a good idea, it's apparent at this point though that the grommet has failed. I had shut off the engine as I watched in great dismay, as the already somewhat weak stream slowed to a trickle and then just drops before my eyes. So it luckily never had the opportunity to overheat.

EdChris, the flusher was given to me along with the engine. It does appear that this item is no longer made. I could keep my eyes open for you though, what year and hp is your engine?
 
Thanks for the kind offer, but don’t waste any time hunting one up. I picked up a ‘94 Evinrude for a14’ Jon boat. I’ve only had outboards that accept traditional muffs.
This little kicker is light enough to run in a plastic compost bin. I cobbled a stand using old BBQ wheels, & made it wide enough for the bin.
 
Hey guys, just an update,

So, I removed the powerhead earlier this week and replaced the rubber grommet that the water tube sits in, it was indeed swollen and deformed. I just put it all together, hooked the garden hose up to it, and.........nothing. No water appeared at the elbow that tell tale hose hooks up to. (I removed the elbow because I snapped it off during reassembly). Is it possible I need to drop this in the water to properly test it?

Also, upon reassembly, I was unsure if I needed to put any sealant on the exhaust housing gasket. I searched online for awhile, but I couldn't find any posts that related directly to my question, so I put it together dry. Anyone say I should have used sealant?
 
Okay, so I just filled a garbage can with water, started the engine, and still no sign of water at the tell tale. What to do next? For completeness, the last time out on the water, the engine was pumping water fine, then I watched as the stream slowed to a trickle, and then to nothing in a matter of minutes. The grommet that holds the water tube in place was bad, that was obvious, so I changed that. Initially I changed the water pump, the existing one looked fine, but I replaced it anyway. So what to check now? Take the t-stat out?
 
Can I ask where you got such an item?
As you know, the traditional, (or Vic’s muffs), don’t work on these motors. All my searches for this type of fitting came up blank.

I just picked one up on eBay about 6 weeks ago. I don't think they are made anymore. Ebay is probably your best bet now.
 
These pumps are elegantly simple.-----Test run in a barrel or on a boat.------Water MUST be about 6 / 8 " above the pump.------Is your motor running hot or just no water out of the tell tale ?
 
These pumps are elegantly simple.-----Test run in a barrel or on a boat.------Water MUST be about 6 / 8 " above the pump.------Is your motor running hot or just no water out of the tell tale ?

Hello and thank you for writing. Actually, I only had about an inch of water above the cavitation plate, which I figured would be enough because it's above the water pick up area, but now I guess it's not enough :mad:

I will try again over the weekend. While I have your attention, when using a motor flusher, as shown in post #8, will water exit the tell tale if the engine is running or not? Because I hooked the engine up to one and no water appeared at the tell tale with the engine running or not. Also, will a t-stat block water going to the tell tale?

I only ran the engine for about 5 seconds before shutting it down
 
It was already mentioned that the pump is NOT self priming.-----Water MUST be 6 / 8" above the pump.------And you must realize that the vanes of the impeller block waterflow when the pump is NOT turning. -----I say there is nothing wrong with this thing !----Unless you have now damaged the impeller by running it dry due to water level too low in your test bucket.
 
It's not too difficult to "melt" these new impellers. I swear they are made out of plastic. I brought this up before because I noticed that once the original impellers are replaced on the older motors the new ones only last 5 to 10 years. I believe that it is a synthetic rubber possibly compounded with real rubber. At any rate you cannot expect these new impellers to last even half as long as the older original compositions. I wish I could analyze the chemistry involved with the new "rubbers". This includes tires, hoses, belts, tubes, even bungie cords. Just replaced the original drive belts on my 1974 Toro snowblower. Yes, you heard me correctly......1974. Yes.....original belts. I bought the replacement belts directly from the Toro dealer that I purchased the snowblower from back in 1974. I asked for the original OEM belts. They are a short belt 1/2 inch wide and cost $20 each. They carry the Toro name on them. My clearances are absolutely correct and pulleys are in exact alignment with no identifiable wear. The new belts lasted barely one year......WHAT? Welcome to the "age of engineering"......practicing the art of perfectly engineered and predicable "failure". There is no money in making something to last.
 
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Thank you for the additional replies!

Flyingscott, thanks, I was very much aware of the key as well as lining up the water tube into the impeller housing.

timguy, thanks, I was ready to place an order for a new thermostat and gaskets. And that's true, there's no money in making something to last

racerone, thanks again for the help. Please excuse my confusion, I had the same motor, but the long shaft version, just prior to owning this engine. And I was able to run the engine using said motor flusher, and water streamed perfectly fine out of the tell tale. Thus my confusion, why would the motor flusher work on one engine and not the other? Nonetheless, I will run it in the test bucket again this Sunday
 
Time for an update, just ran the engine in a tub with the water line about 8" above the pump, which was considerably more than my prior test. Anyway, no water came out of the tell tale. I then dropped the lower end into the tub and spun the pump with a cordless drill. With the drill on high, I could see that water was being pumped out of the pump housing outlet. I then shot some water from a hose down through the engine via the port where the tell tale elbow screws into, and water exited the water tube. So everything checks out. However, once bolted up again, with the water level even higher than before, water would still not appear at the tell tale. Can anyone make heads or tails with this problem? I'm in NJ so it's not like I'm going fishing anytime soon, but I'd really like to get this fixed so I am ready for the spring.
 
Sounds like a stupid question but your spinning the shaft clockwise looking from above? Also have you tried introducing water up the intake tube, then noticing if it comes out the telltale. By introducing backwards into the telltale, it might not give us a true representation of water flow by direction.
 
Sounds like a stupid question but your spinning the shaft clockwise looking from above? Also have you tried introducing water up the intake tube, then noticing if it comes out the telltale. By introducing backwards into the telltale, it might not give us a true representation of water flow by direction.

Thanks for writing buddy. Looking downward, I spun the pump clockwise, the drill was in forward. I did not attempt to shoot water up the water tube, I will give that a shot next. Thanks!
 
Alright, I just shot some water up the water tube and water did indeed come out of the tell tale. So, if the pump is pumping and the path through the water passage is clear, how can I not have coming through the engine while running?
 
Alright, I just shot some water up the water tube and water did indeed come out of the tell tale. So, if the pump is pumping and the path through the water passage is clear, how can I not have coming through the engine while running?

Earlier, when spinning the pump with a drill, you said, "I could see that water was being pumped out of the pump housing outlet".

Ive never done it ( never had any problems after rebuilding the pump) but I would have expected more water at a significant pressure than this suggests.

I think you have to take a critical look at the pump.

Check the impeller( is it the correct one), check the driving key, check the two gaskets, check that the pump housing is bolted down properly.

Check the water intake strainer

Double check everything
 
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