’94 Evinrude 2 Stroke 8HP no idle

I picked up a very clean, (not even paint chips), ‘94 Rude 2 stroke kicker Model E8RERE
Read through every post I could find regarding poor/no idle on these engines. It starts reasonably well, but only using throttle way higher than it should, resulting in stratospheric rpm, not good for engine, I know.
It runs well at medium/full power, will push a tracker 14’ Jon boat a hair under 20mph on the GPS with myself, or 15mph with 2.
As soon as I throttle back, it tended to backfire a few times, & the idle slowly drops, (over about 5-10 seconds), then it dies. Will restart with choke and/or selecting hi power on twist grip.
Compression is 105 both cylinders, using new premium no ethanol fuel, new plugs, brand new tank lines. Primer bulb gets/stays rock hard.
i have a factory service manual, & rebuilt the carb, using a Sierra kit, then went through the throttle synching procedure.
The previous owner had the idle mix screw out almost 8 turns, I set it to 3, as per the service manual.
The engine ran the same, but harder to start.
The Manual was pretty adamant about not using carb cleaner,(said use isopropyl alcohol), or soaking carb. It has the plastic top & float bowl. I used sensor safe cleaner, & totally disassembled carb & sprayed orifices.
Im going to do it again this time, probing the 3 tiny orifices in carb body with a fine wire. Also going to do the fuel pump, although the primer bulb stays hard, & no change if I squeeze the bulb while idling.
Can someone, (is joe Reeves still around?), advise me regarding the idle mix screw. Spec is initially 3 turns out from LIGHTLY seated, but, I don’t feel it seating, at least not like other carbs. The needle is SS, tapered, but not to a fine point like I’ve seen on other carbs. It ends flat, but that seems to match the photo of a new one for sale here,
[url]http://www.marineengine.com/newparts/part_details.php?pnum=OMC0339218[/URL]
Mine has no nicks or scoring, looks new. However, when turning it in, it seems to go right until the spring gets compressed.
Is this normal, or is the the carb cover pooched? (new covers seem unavailable now).
This unit does not use the little grommet where the idle screw cuts it’s own threads, the needle threads into a brass insert set into the plastic carb cover. I sprayed it out, but am reluctant to probe with a wire, as once you go through the brass insert, you are in plastic.
My other thought is the nozzle well, (#27 in the carb diagram). It holds 2 little brass fittings. I sprayed it, but didn’t probe, & was reluctant to use real carb cleaner, as most of it is plastic. It’s rather pricey, so I don’t want to replace unless required.
Thanks, I’m pulling my hair out, I thought this would be easy!

Sounds like you bought a motor that someone gave up on.-----Not uncommon.------Perhaps a " no money spent " check of the flywheel key should be done.-----Not saying that is the problem , but easy to check.-----Check reed valves.-----Check that the idle passage way to that rubber tube in the bowl is clear.----Perhaps fine wire to check that.

PS
i also read the threads regarding the gaskets for the reed valves, on the intake, & checking the reeds for broken or chipped vanes.
Those gaskets are cheap, so I’m thinking of replacing them when I remove the carb again, & checking that the bolts/screws are torqued properly.
i also looked closely under the flywheel. No sign of leakage there from upper seals.
im running a little more oil than 50:1 as much of the time this engine is running full throttle.
With regards to the fuel pump, I see lots of pumps for sale online, $20-$35. Advertised as new, are they any good vs the OEM which shows $120odd. I’m in Canada, so with our poor exchange rate, everything in 35% more.
With the carb completely apart, is it safe to soak the main body in carb cleaner, especially those 3 tiny orifices that sit in a line, on top of carb body, in a depression, sorry can’t remember the proper name?
Also, the manual said to turn carb upside down, & fill the small brass tube,(that runs vertically through the carb main body, I think they call it the emulsion tube), with alcohol, & see if it leaks from where it enters the main body.
It seems this tube has 2 small holes in it, how would you tell if it leaks, isn’t liquid going to drain out the 2 small holes, or am I missing something?

I think you may be right. It looked in very good shape, not even a nick on prop, compression was good. I figured someone left old gas sit & gummed things up. I was tired of using big boat for fishing small lakes & rivers, & kids wanted a runabout.
When using wire, would you use brass wire, say from a BBQ brush or like?
i have lots of SS wire, but don’t want create any damage.
Regarding that little rubber tube. Is it possible to remove the tiny brass fitting it attaches to on Part #27 on the diagram, in order to soak it in cleaner, or is wire probing sufficient?
I thought about replacing the nozzle well, but I hate to throw money if that’s not the problem.

I can verify that the pumps on Amazon do work.
I put one on my 61 10Hp Evinrude. That little square
pump is pretty much universal for all the lower horse
power Johnson/Evinrude engines for several decades.
You can also get a rebuild kit for about the same price
as the aftermarket pumps.

The problem does not sound like fuel pump to me though.

Where in Ontario are you (more or less)?

A way to check the fuel pump is to dismount the fuel pump but leave the hoses connected.
Pressurize the the fuel system with the bulb and check for any fuel leaking from the back of the pump.
If any fuel leaks, replace/rebuild the pump.

Check the arm on the carb is the roller in good shape?

Regarding the carb cleaner. It's my understanding that it's safe to use non-chlorinated carb cleaner on plastic parts, but I would be careful disregarding the manual's instructions.
20mph sounds pretty damn high for 8hp.

I'm not finding anything to support my notion that non-chlorinated carb cleaner is safe on plastic...so maybe don't do that.

James in Canada said:

A way to check the fuel pump is to dismount the fuel pump but leave the hoses connected.
Pressurize the the fuel system with the bulb and check for any fuel leaking from the back of the pump.
If any fuel leaks, replace/rebuild the pump.

Click to expand...

Thanks for that. I’m over in Japan right now for a couple days work, will get at it on Sunday, new pump supposed to arrive on Saturday.
Im on Lake Simcoe, north shore. Appx 409 sq miles, bought a Tracker 14’ Jon boat for the kids & fishing the rivers & small lakes. It’s WAY easier to load & trailer around.

flyingscott said:

Check the arm on the carb is the roller in good shape?

Click to expand...

Are you referring to the roller that follows the cam? It seems fine, everything under the cover looks almost new. I also confirmed the roller doesn’t quite touch with the throttle & slow speed knob at full idle.
the throttle plate roll pin is exactly vertical when full throttle is selected.

Swarlos said:

I'm not finding anything to support my notion that non-chlorinated carb cleaner is safe on plastic...so maybe don't do that.

Click to expand...

OK, thanks. I measured the speed with a GPS with marine maps for the Great Lakes,(it covers the Trent Severn Waterway, & Lake Simcoe).
it bounced between 19.2 - 19.7 with myself, (175lb), and 14.2 - 14.7 with myself & buddy, (190lb). That was with a few lb of fishing gear & 1/2 can of gas. The Tracker 14’ only weighs 160lb.
The flat bottom Jon boats plane easier than any kind of V, but I’m thinking that those results show the 8hp is delivering full power. For that reason I’m not inclined to look at other threads that said a head gasket blown, between cylinders, was the idle problem.
I could go buy a new kicker, but this one seems so pristine, that I want it to run. I hate the idea of tossing things just to go buy a new one. This is now a mission, I want it to run.
After reading tons of threads, I see the experienced posters, & am hoping their help can make this motor go. I don’t think Joe Reeves is here now, but I see Racer One & others as a valuable resource, & hope anyone who has experienced this can solve my problem.
it seems this kicker has lots of life left, we just need to isolate the real problem.

racerone said:

Sounds like you bought a motor that someone gave up on.-----Not uncommon.------Perhaps a " no money spent " check of the flywheel key should be done.-----Not saying that is the problem , but easy to check.-----Check reed valves.-----Check that the idle passage way to that rubber tube in the bowl is clear.----Perhaps fine wire to check that.

Click to expand...

Thanks. Can you elaborate on the flywheel key check. With the pull start removed the flywheel is open, what should I look for?
i used to race Can Am dirt bikes, decades ago, ( hey I’m north of 60 now), those had rotary valves. What should I look for with reed valves?
Im thinking remove carb, intake, then the reed assembly, & put back with the 2 baskets? What exactly should I see, or not see in the valves?

Ideally what I would like to do is borrow a confirmed carb, Bolt it on for 20 minutes, & see if the kicker runs at idle.
This would confirm my problem is with idle fuel delivery, & can then be tackled.
Im looking into some salvage places in S Ontario to do this.
Can anyone tell me what the idle mixture screw should look like, & is the brass fitting it screws into just a simple brass female thread?
is there anything inside the plastic carb top cover that could get damaged?
My idle mix looks exactly like this,
http://www.marineengine.com/parts/j...RERE&manufacturer=Evinrude&section=Carburetor

Edchris177 said:

Thanks. Can you elaborate on the flywheel key check. With the pull start removed the flywheel is open, what should I look for?
i used to race Can Am dirt bikes, decades ago, ( hey I’m north of 60 now), those had rotary valves. What should I look for with reed valves?
Im thinking remove carb, intake, then the reed assembly, & put back with the 2 gaskets? What exactly should I see, or not see in the valves?

Click to expand...

Any other ideas?

Perhaps -----Kings prop repair.-----Port severn.----Or ----evinrudeparts.ca----near Parrysound---Can offer you some help.

I would say you can try the carb from my 4 Hp or my 10 Hp but i doubt
the throttle set up would match.

I'm down at the south end of lake Simcoe...near Quinn's marina.

I've been to the boat wrecker over in Fenlon Falls. The guy is a little
rough around the edges to deal with and a little expensive but has
a pretty good inventory. Just make sure he knows your coming
if you go there.

PS
I was wrong on the top speed obtained, I should have checked my notes vs memory.
Swarlos called me out on that speed.
I brought the GPS again, got 18.2 - 18.7 at WOT with myself, no gear, little gas. That matches with the 18.3 - 18.8 the first time.
Does anyone know if those $35 optical tachs are any good?
My automotive on only does 4,6, & 8 cyl.