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  1. #31
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    Default Re: 383 Inboard(V-Drive)build

    "As for the comment regarding this build being book knowledge, Internet based info and wasted money...... who are we to tell Bracker how to proceed with his project and what to do with his money? "

    This quote is just irresponsible.


    BTW,
    Performance build with customer specs and possibly supplied parts, Good luck with that warranty.
    Chris
    Dockside Marine Services
    Jersey Shore.
    Mercruiser/Mercury Certified
    Let the insanity begin.

  2. #32

    Default Re: 383 Inboard(V-Drive)build

    Is this the “Boat Repair Forum” or the “Dealer Referral Forum”? I politely explained my position.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: 383 Inboard(V-Drive)build

    Pay little to no attention to the Nay-Sayers, and keep up the good work!
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  4. #34

    Default Re: 383 Inboard(V-Drive)build

    Quote Originally Posted by Bracker View Post
    Is this the “Boat Repair Forum” or the “Dealer Referral Forum”? I politely explained my position.
    Bracker I think you're missing the point Chris was making. If hassle free use vs working on the boat is your goal stick with an off the shelf setup, that has a warranty, and can be serviced by any reasonably qualified independent technician or dealer. If your passion is for the project and you don't mind working through some issues have fun with it. Chris's advice is really protecting his clientele in terms of fixing it once and fixing it right being worth money up front, which is the correct approach.

    My only additional thought ought would be make sure what ever machinist you use is very familiar with this build. Seems a lot of posts like this where some one wants a custom hopped up engine, poster gets plenty of free advice (other people spending your money), tend to see a fair number of issues down the road where poster has to go back into engine and there is some type of mismatch or machining issue. This is not being a nay sayer, just reality of what you see on this and similar sites.

    when i I did my repower 4 years ago, I went from thinking a hotter cam etc to just getting a new base engine, only mod was a 4 bbl cast iron intake (vortec to take a square bore carb is available) and edlebrock carb. For me this was the best approach as I've just finished my 4th season without issue. It just comes down to how you want to use your boat... good luck

  5. #35
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    Default Re: 383 Inboard(V-Drive)build

    ...........................
    Quote Originally Posted by Dieter View Post
    Bracker I think you're missing the point Chris was making. If hassle free use vs working on the boat is your goal stick with an off the shelf setup,
    A quench style piston is easy to find from a reputable manufacturer. The manufacturer simply pulls it from their shelf.

    that has a warranty, and can be serviced by any reasonably qualified independent technician or dealer.
    Please explain why servicing a GM built SBC engine would be any different than that of servicing a SBC engine built using a Q/E into the combustion chamber!
    We use the same or similar C/R, the same or similar cam profile, the same cylinder heads, the same ignition system, etc.

    This is NOT about building a High Performance SBC.
    It's about reducing the potential for Marine Load Detonation, allowing for better performance and torque.

    If your passion is for the project and you don't mind working through some issues have fun with it.
    Once Bracker makes his parts selections, he'll be on his way to the build.

    Chris's advice is really protecting his clientele in terms of fixing it once and fixing it right being worth money up front, which is the correct approach.
    First off, Chris isn't building this engine for Bracker.
    Secondly, if this is not the correct approach, you must be in agreement that men like Dennis Moore (SBC Marine Performance), Jeff Smith (Super Chevy and well known SBC enthusiast), Marlan Davis (Hot Rod Network) Larry Carley (expert on engine combustion), John Erb (Chief engineer KB pistons), Jon Cobalt (crankshaft coalition) are all wrong!

    My only additional thought ought would be make sure what ever machinist you use is very familiar with this build.
    Any good machinist/machine shop will know exactly how to set this up.
    If they do not..... it would be time find another machine shop.

    Some people who do not understand this build, nor understand the advantages, will be the same people who will Foo Foo it as though they do!
    I would suggest to anyone that they educate themselves as to the "why" and "how", before dismissing this type of build.


    Seems a lot of posts like this where some one wants a custom hopped up engine,
    Please understand that this is NOT a Hot Rod or High Performance build.
    Again,
    I would suggest educating yourself as to the "why" and "how", before dismissing this type of build.

    poster gets plenty of free advice (other people spending your money), tend to see a fair number of issues down the road where poster has to go back into engine and there is some type of mismatch or machining issue.
    Please give us a few examples regarding this type of build going bad!

    This is not being a nay sayer, just reality of what you see on this and similar sites.
    Ok.... getting down to the basics here, and while asking you to be very specific and detailed........, what are your exact reasons for being so against a Marine SBC Q/E build?

    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  6. #36

    Default Re: 383 Inboard(V-Drive)build

    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoMarine View Post
    ...........................
    rick I didn't quote you because it didn't want to see another long winded response where you say the same thing you have posted over and over again. As usual you're too busy sending links to your previous posts to read and understand.

    OP asked " the opinion of the forum" my opinion is there is risk on any custom build that the boat owner takes on, even in a stock build. The boat owner will spend time selecting parts, working with the machinist, assembling etc with no warranty against any issues down the road.

    For me , my opinion was that I didn't want to take the risk (not that it can't work) so I bought a new GM base engine. Not ***y but it works, It came with a warranty, and any marine mechanic can work on it if need be.

    The OP asked the opinion of the forum, I gave my opinion on a different avenue. What ever direction the op decides I wish him luck, and rick you have too much time on your hands

  7. #37
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    Default Re: 383 Inboard(V-Drive)build

    Thread title:
    383 Inboard (V-Drive) build


    Post #1 (Bracker):
    "I have decided to go with a 383 with Vortec (062 casting) heads, 22cc volume reverse dome hyper pistons, 5.7” rods, Comp XM264HR camshaft and Scat forged crankshaft. As currently configured it should have a SCR of 9.27:1 and a DCR of 7.62:1. Someone ran the specs through DynoSim6 for me and the torque numbers were exactly what I was looking for."
    "However, I’m still trying to settle on a manifold/carb combo. It will have a full FWC kit, but as you guys know, Dennis Moore recommends using a cast iron manifold with cast iron heads (besides the corrosion factor) due to the expansion rate differential between iron and aluminum and how that affects the head gasket. What are your opinions on this matter? If I do go with the cast iron manifold, I believe all that are Vortec compatible are configured for a spread bore. I know there are square bore adapters but I’m ocd and I’ve read several places that this isn’t ideal. The forum’s thoughts and advice will be appreciated. Thanks!"

    I do not see where Bracker (the OP here) is asking for our suggestions as to do this build or to not do this build! It sounds as though he is moving ahead with it!
    Fast forward, and we see a few Nay-Sayers coming in.

    As for the; ".... where you say the same thing you have posted over and over again"........... each OP is wanting to learn, and they are apparently not using the forum archives as a resource. So what you may think of as being redundant, it is not necessarily redundant for an OP.

    As for the; "It came with a warranty, and any marine mechanic can work on it if need be" ............. what makes the Q/E built SBC any more difficult for a Marine mechanic to work on? Basically, nothing is changed but the piston deck profile along with incorporating a good quench dimension.

    That said, I suppose that a mechanic who is not up to speed, could inadvertently install the wrong compressed head gasket thickness during/after cylinder head work. If so, this would be a result of using an inexperienced mechanic!


    Let's help Bracker build his Q/E 6.3L SBC engine, and discuss things in a friendly, adult like and gentlemanly fashion.
    Let's also not bring in Doom and Gloom unless asked for!


    Fair enough????



    .
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: 383 Inboard(V-Drive)build

    Quote Originally Posted by Dieter View Post
    rick I didn't quote you because it didn't want to see another long winded response where you say the same thing you have posted over and over again. As usual you're too busy sending links to your previous posts to read and understand.

    OP asked " the opinion of the forum" my opinion is there is risk on any custom build that the boat owner takes on, even in a stock build. The boat owner will spend time selecting parts, working with the machinist, assembling etc with no warranty against any issues down the road.

    For me , my opinion was that I didn't want to take the risk (not that it can't work) so I bought a new GM base engine. Not ***y but it works, It came with a warranty, and any marine mechanic can work on it if need be.

    The OP asked the opinion of the forum, I gave my opinion on a different avenue. What ever direction the op decides I wish him luck, and rick you have too much time on your hands
    Dieter, don't waste your time. No ones opinion counts on this subject but his.
    Chris
    Dockside Marine Services
    Jersey Shore.
    Mercruiser/Mercury Certified
    Let the insanity begin.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: 383 Inboard(V-Drive)build

    I think that a few of us are not understanding what Bracker is wanting to do.
    Perhaps read post #1 again.


    Isn't this an open forum, and aren't all reasonable suggestions allowed and welcomed?
    Aren't we allowed to agree to disagree as long as we keep it civil?
    Isn't ultimately up to the OP to decide which suggestions are good and/or not good for him/her?


    Keep in mind that Wilbur and Orval would not have flown had they been restricted to thinking inside of the box only.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: 383 Inboard(V-Drive)build

    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoMarine View Post
    I think that a few of us are not understanding what Bracker is wanting to do.
    Perhaps read post #1 again.


    Isn't this an open forum, and aren't all reasonable suggestions allowed and welcomed?
    Aren't we allowed to agree to disagree as long as we keep it civil?
    Isn't ultimately up to the OP to decide which suggestions are good and/or not good for him/her?


    Keep in mind that Wilbur and Orval would not have flown had they been restricted to thinking inside of the box only.
    Practice what you preach.
    Chris
    Dockside Marine Services
    Jersey Shore.
    Mercruiser/Mercury Certified
    Let the insanity begin.

  11. #41

    Default Re: 383 Inboard(V-Drive)build

    Rick where in post #1 that you reference twice did the OP ask for the opinion on piston profile that you offered? Only intake and carb questions.

    You bag on me for expanding scope yet you did just that. You mentioned doom and gloom but yet you only bag on full dish piston yet there are thousands of examples in service working fine.

    You are a hypocrite with your comments in this thread.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: 383 Inboard(V-Drive)build

    Quote Originally Posted by Dieter View Post
    Rick where in post #1 (that you reference twice) did the OP ask for the opinion on piston profile that you offered? Only intake and carb questions.
    I don't recall being asked for piston profile opinions in post #1. In your opinion, does not being asked prevent us from making further suggestions if we see a need for them?

    To the best of my knowledge, Bracker has appreciated my comments, in particular my comment re; his proposed choice of the reverse dome piston underneath a Vortec cylinder head. I believe that was when I suggested going with a LCQ style piston that better mirrors the Vortec cylinder head's quench surface.
    A person would need to have extensive SBC engine building experience in order to understand why!

    You mentioned doom and gloom
    Yes I did!
    Hopefully we are all able to delineate between positive comments and what I referred to as "Doom and Gloom" comments.


    but yet you only bag on full dish piston yet there are thousands of examples in service working fine.
    Yes..... I agree that there are literally thousands and thousands of SBCs out there (w/ the GM F/D pistons) and they working just fine.
    Bracker apparently does not want an average Joe build.

    We know what engine Bracker is building, and we know what he is wanting to achieve. So why not help him rather than continue disrupting and derailing his thread?
    If these disruptions continue, it's likely that he won't return to his thread!


    .
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  13. #43

    Default Re: 383 Inboard(V-Drive)build

    Nah, I’ll keep coming back, I like this forum. Dieter, I really appreciate your input as I really do Dockside’s. I asked for everyone’s opinion and that is what I received. To try to give perspective to my approach, I’m a merchant mariner and I spend 300 plus days a year on tugboats. Researching this build gives me something to do in my downtime. I stumbled on Rick’s Q/E build posts when I first started my research and it piqued my interest so I solicited his advice and I’ve cross referenced his opinions with other credible sources. I know I could buy a new or remanned engine with warranty and have nothing to worry about. That is a very reasonable and probably even the most prudent path to take but I want to learn something and be able to say I built it (mostly) by myself.

    Anyhow, I purchased a crank and connecting rods today and I’m pretty excited about it. I bought a Holley a couple of weeks ago. It isn’t made in that exact configuration with annular boosters anymore so I figured I’d go ahead and pick it up. I’ve included links below to the few components I’ve picked up for the build so far. Dieter, do you have the make/model/part number for that vortec cast iron intake? Thanks again all! I hope there are no hard feelings.

    https://kmjperformance.com/wiseco-pt...iABEgJLSvD_BwE

    https://allcarbs.com/product/holley-...600-cfm-75021/

    https://www.cnc-motorsports.com/4-35...3-stroker.html

    https://www.cnc-motorsports.com/scat...ting-rods.html
    Last edited by Bracker; 10-31-2019 at 09:49 PM.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: 383 Inboard(V-Drive)build

    Bracker, I'm glad to see that you are still on board here and that you were not influenced by the Nay-Sayers.


    I think that you made a good choice on the piston profile.

    Excellent choice on the Holley carburetor, Scat crankshaft and Scat I-beam connecting rods.
    Looks as though you are building an early cylinder block ( i.e., 2 pc rear main seal).

    I noticed that the rods are set up for full floating wrist pins.
    (I can't tell if the piston wrist pin bosses offer a grove for a locking clip)


    By the way........ using 3 different on line calculators; https://www.rbracing-rsr.com › compstaticcalc , http://www.diamondracing.net/tools/ and https://uempistons.com/p-27-compress...alculator.html
    .... and while using these values; 4.030"bore, 3.750"stroke, 20cc dish volume, 64cc combustion chambers, quench dimension of .042" (.016" in the hole/.028" compressed head gasket).... I come up with a S C/R of 9.41:1 , whereas the Wiseco information suggests a S C/R of 9.1:1 .


    Since mid October to this morning, the number of views has gone from 604 to 835.
    This means that lots of people are watching your 383 build thread....... so p
    lease keep us up to date on your progress!






    .


    Last edited by RicardoMarine; 11-01-2019 at 09:03 AM.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  15. #45

    Default Re: 383 Inboard(V-Drive)build

    Dieter, do you have the make/model/part number for that vortec cast iron intake?

    i don't think marine engine offers these components, so hopefully I don't PO our host for directing folks to another suppliers site....

    A couple of ways to go about this-

    https://www.michiganmotorz.com/vorte...ent-p-465.html

    this is the intake, I have one on my 5.0 that I bought as a crate engine from Michigan motorz. I can say this intake while probably not the highest end casting but works very well, nice throttle response from idle to my 5000 rpm red line. it has a fairly hi rise to the plenum and the carb flange accepts both square and spread bore carbs. I don't know who makes this intake as everyone who sells it seems to grind the casting info off it. You can also find throttle bracket components there to adapt the mercruiser throttle cable to a Holley carb.

    Another option is

    https://www.castheads.com/manifolds-...take-manifold/

    I think this is the same intake as above but they reference it is made by Engine Quest, and is port matched. This guy seems to specialize in porting cast iron heads and intakes, likely more suited to a performance build you are doing than an off the shelf intake. He does head porting as well if you haven't bought your heads yet.
    Last edited by Dieter; 11-01-2019 at 09:19 AM.

  16. #46
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    Default Re: 383 Inboard(V-Drive)build

    Bracker, I'm not sure of how you plan to cool this new engine.... (i.e., seawater cooled or Closed Cooling).
    If you go with a Closed Cooling System, you can safely use an aluminum Edelbrock automotive "dual plane" square bore, Vortec intake manifold, and save yourself a few dollars and some weight.


    https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...ntake+manifold

    If other than Edelbrock is ok with you, you may want to check these out.

    https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...ifold&_sacat=0


    Just a thought!

    If you go with an open system (seawater cooled), and although more expensive....... you can still use an Aluminum Vortec, dual plane, intake manifold with the bronze lined coolant cross-over passage.

    https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=sbc+marin e+vortec+intake+manifold+&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0& _osacat=0&_odkw=sbc+vortec+intake+manifold+for+mar ine+use




    .........., likely more suited to a performance build you are doing ...........
    Building a Q/E 6.3L SBC (as per what Bracker is doing), is NOT necessarily a high performance build.
    This is so often misunderstood!




    Click image for larger version. 

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    .
    Last edited by RicardoMarine; 11-01-2019 at 11:59 AM.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  17. #47
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    Default Re: 383 Inboard(V-Drive)build

    Build your engine, put a nice cam in it and find a 69 Camaro or a Gen2 Nova to put it in..... All of this is not necessary for a Marine Build.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	222222.jpg 
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ID:	22125
    Chris
    Dockside Marine Services
    Jersey Shore.
    Mercruiser/Mercury Certified
    Let the insanity begin.

  18. #48
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    Default Re: 383 Inboard(V-Drive)build

    Apparently some of us are not quite understanding the purpose of Bracker's thread. As I see it, Bracker is not asking whether he should or should not do this build for his 6.3L SBC Marine engine. It’s all right there beginning with post #1!

    Quote Originally Posted by post #1
    I have decided to go with a 383 with Vortec (062 casting) heads, 22cc volume reverse dome hyper pistons, 5.7” rods, Comp XM264HR camshaft and Scat forged crankshaft. As currently configured it should have a SCR of 9.27:1 and a DCR of 7.62:1. Someone ran the specs through DynoSim6 for me and the torque numbers were exactly what I was looking for.
    By the way (and any good mechanic should know this), the SBC 22cc reverse dome piston is a Quench style piston, very much unlike a SBC GM Full Dished piston.
    From that info alone, it is clear to me that Bracker understands the value in a SBC Q/E build!

    Let's also not lose sight that Bracker has not indicated that he has any budget restraints!


    What is it about some members who are so hell-bent on disrupting and derailing a thread like this?
    Perhaps these disruptions and derailment attempts are OK with some members!

    Sad!



    .









    .
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

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