Logo

1987 Mercruiser 2.5 help! (Long post)

Leveecius

New member
Ok guys, I'm fairly new to boats, but not engines (I'm a semi tech), but I'm having some issues I can't see to figure out on my boat. I just picked it up the last weekend and am having issues. Hope I can get some help!

A little back story, got the boat for labor day weekend, got it in the water and everything was great! Ran around the lake for a few hours both slow and opened up. At full throttle under a load Of only get about 4k rpms off of it, but didn't think anything about it. The boat ran flawlessly. Next day on my way out to the lake from the dock I caught a rope in the prop. Saw the temp gauge moving up fast and shut it down. At first I thought it was just sea grass until I grabbed a rope.. got everything cleared and limped back to the dock. Engine was about 200ish degrees. Let it cool for the night and checked the next morning. Started to heat up really fast. So shut it off again. Later in the day I started it while cold and revved it to about 2200rpms and saw a LOT of air coming out the back. Waited til there was no air an put it back to an idle and since then I haven't had an issue with temperature. It never gets close to 160 degrees.. Hovers around 140ish.

Now, I took the boat to a cleaner/bigger lake on Monday and ran around the lake at about 1800rpms for about 30 mi Utes before trying to open her up (mainly making sure she wasn't going to overheat). Everything looked great and felt fine, so I opened her up. She runs great for about 30 seconds and dies. Starts right back up. After messing with it for another 30 minutes I find anything over 2200rpms under a load and it's just like you turn off the ignition. Sputters, falls flat on its face and just sounds like it's bogging down. I take the boat home and do a full tune up on it. Out of the water it runs great (I have muffs, just putting that out so nobody thinks I dry ran it). I thought at first it was bad fuel, but new fuel (drained tank of old fuel), added seafoam, and the tune up and it runs pretty good til about 1800rpms.. At this point I can hear it missing a little bit and it's smoking pretty bad (blue smoke). But again, temps are only around 130-140 degrees and even touching the coolant hoses they aren't too hot.

So my question is, is it possible to have my valve seals leaking bad enough to blow oil out of it? Oil is on the inside of my prop where the jam nut/castle nut is that hold it on. I also blew oil in the grass from the exhaust too.. It's black and slimy. Second question I have, when revving it up and letting it come back down and re-revving it to put a load on it, it bogs out for a few split seconds then catches itself. I'm not 100% familiar with carbs so please forgive my ignorance here, but with the throttle disconnected and the boat off, when I start giving it gas, I see a stream of gas in each intake port of the carb, is that right/good? I'd really like to get this figured out before I have to winterize it as there are still good days to be on the water!

Thanks in advance for the help!
 
Got it on the water again and in a load it does after about 10 seconds. I noticed that the choke doesn't seem to be moving on its own, not sure if it's supposed to,but once it starts dying, if I throw it into neutral it will still die. It doesn't want to stay running to save my life in the water, but out, it purs like a kitten.
 
You might have a dirty anti-syphon valve at the tank. Try running t off an outboard tank to find out.

Jeff
 
The "streams' in the carb's throat, when you open the accelerator lever, are normal - that's the accelerator pump doing its thing....

Jeff's suggestion will address the potential for a fuel system pickup issue which is usually crud in the tank.

Being as the boat is 30+ years old and new to you, I'd say you don't have much history to go on. It is very possible the valve stems are contributing to the oil issue....if there is that much oil in the exhaust, I'd think the spark plugs would have a tough time handling it. You also need to make sure the choke opens fully as one that's not open will increase the fuel flow and contribute to top end wear.

It would also be prudent to have the outdrive serviced.....
 
The "streams' in the carb's throat, when you open the accelerator lever, are normal - that's the accelerator pump doing its thing....

Jeff's suggestion will address the potential for a fuel system pickup issue which is usually crud in the tank.

Being as the boat is 30+ years old and new to you, I'd say you don't have much history to go on. It is very possible the valve stems are contributing to the oil issue....if there is that much oil in the exhaust, I'd think the spark plugs would have a tough time handling it. You also need to make sure the choke opens fully as one that's not open will increase the fuel flow and contribute to top end wear.

It would also be prudent to have the outdrive serviced.....

The out drive was serviced at the start of this boating season, got the paperwork with the boat on that. Plugs were pretty bad on 3 of the 4 cylinders. I replaced everything in the ignition system. I have drained the tank and used a bore scope and tank is clean, and even replaced the screen in the carb and inline filter and still does it. I found the gas cap seal is cracked, not sure if that would cause the loss of fuel or not.

As a mechanic myself, I did the usual precautions with the engine you'd normally do, oil change and new filters, and tune up. I'm assuming the oil is the valve seals as it seems to get worse as the engine heats up. Gonna replace those over the winter. I'm just trying to get through this year! :)
 
Rather than running from an outboard fuel tank (of which may be rather dangerous), I suggest that you do the following:

Pull the fuel tank dip tube.
Examine and clean the bottom screen.
Re-install it.
Remove and replace the Anti-Siphon valve.
Examine all fuel lines.
Replace the main fuel filter cartridge.

This needs to be done anyway... so why not do it now?
 
Rather than running from an outboard fuel tank (of which may be rather dangerous), I suggest that you do the following:

Pull the fuel tank dip tube.
Examine and clean the bottom screen.
Re-install it.
Remove and replace the Anti-Siphon valve.
Examine all fuel lines.
Replace the main fuel filter cartridge.

This needs to be done anyway... so why not do it now?

I'm new to boats, again, please forgive my ignorance. Where is the main filter cartridge? Is it in the mechanical pump? Also, where is the anti-siphon valve? Fuel lines look good, and inline filter is brand new. I appreciate the help tho! I'm understanding everything that is being said and suggested, just, a semi engine is slightly different than this and I've never really messed with carb setups, so still learning here. Although, the lack of having experience with boats and no manual to find or use, I'm stuck being lost lol.
 
.......
I'm new to boats, again, please forgive my ignorance. Where is the main filter cartridge? Is it in the mechanical pump?
It will be a separate unit, and will be installed within the fuel line that runs from the fuel tank to the engine's fuel pump.
shopping



Also, where is the anti-siphon valve?
The Anti-Siphon valve will be located just above the fitting that exits the fuel tank.

shopping



Fuel lines look good, and inline filter is brand new.
Automotive type inline fuel filters are not legal when installed within an enclosed engine bay.
shopping


I appreciate the help tho! I'm understanding everything that is being said and suggested, just, a semi engine is slightly different than this and I've never really messed with carb setups, so still learning here. Although, the lack of having experience with boats and no manual to find or use, I'm stuck being lost lol.
 

Ok, I don't have any unit between the tank and pump. Only an inline filter (like the one you pictured). I will remove that filter and get an appropriate filter. Thanks for the heads up!

Is it possible the anti-siphon valve is an elbow? It looks to me like at the top of the tank is a brass barbed elbow. Not sure if that is the valve or not. It sits atop the dip tube. I'll take pics when I get home. This boat seems like a hack job, in just the short time I've spent working on it..
 
.....................
Ok, I don't have any unit between the tank and pump. Only an inline filter (like the one you pictured). I will remove that filter and get an appropriate filter. Thanks for the heads up!
Good, and you're welcome!

Is it possible the anti-siphon valve is an elbow?
Doubtful. Most are like the one that I showed you.

It looks to me like at the top of the tank is a brass barbed elbow. Not sure if that is the valve or not. It sits atop the dip tube.
Remove it, look to see if it contains a spring backed ball valve.
The purpose of it is to prevent an unwanted siphon from occurring in the event of a low elevation severed fuel line.
The fuel pump's suction will over-come the check pressure, but a gravity siphon will not!

I'll take pics when I get home. This boat seems like a hack job, in just the short time I've spent working on it..
You are not alone!
Many boats have been hacked up by previous owners who take short cuts.

Since this boat has been hacked up, you may want to also look at the ignition system, alternator, etc, and make sure that these are Marine units, and not Automotive.
 
Last edited:
.....................

Yes and my boat is no exception. Lots of zip ties, and messes in there I'm trying to clean up, as a mechanic, it's triggering my mechanic OCD lol!

I will take the barb fitting off and check, I don't think it has that. If it does not have an anti-siphon valve, how much trouble is that to not have one? I'm assuming a lot.

Thanks again for your time and help! I really appreciate! I just want a good, safe boat to have on the water!
 
.............
I will take the barb fitting off and check, I don't think it has that. If it does not have an anti-siphon valve, how much trouble is that to not have one? I'm assuming a lot.

USCG regs require one for all gasoline In-Board engines.
Your insurance company will also appreciate it.


Thanks again for your time and help! I really appreciate! I just want a good, safe boat to have on the water!
you are welcome!
 
The CFR doesn't mandate the anti-syphon valve for ALL gasoline inboards.....only when the layout warrants its use as a safety device.....
 
The CFR doesn't mandate the anti-syphon valve for ALL gasoline inboards.....only when the layout warrants its use as a safety device.....

And that would be if the fuel line's elevation (from the tank to the engine) dips down lower than the tank outlet fitting's elevation, therefor posing a risk of a siphon that would be caused by a severed fuel line.

Excuse me for not being more clear on that earlier.


.
 
You'll probably want to pull that carb apart and look for garbage in there. Also, replace all the rubber fuel lines with ethanol resistant type (like shields/trident Flexacol) clear any crud out of the tank, and blow out the vent lines and clear any mud wasp activity from the screens. A fuel/water separating cartridge filter is a great idea. I like the ones that have an accumulator/sedimentor on the bottom so you can get a visual on any poop in the line. Racor makes nice ones for gasoline engines.
Obviously the issues are fuel related since it does start and run on the idle circuit but when you give it some beans it dies.
I will also add that if you don't have nice hose clamps like the AWAB brand, this is an excellent opportunity to put some on the plumbing.
 
I like the ones that have an accumulator/sedimentor on the bottom so you can get a visual on any poop in the line.
Racor makes nice ones for gasoline engines.

FYI..... the Parker/RACOR fuel filter systems with the clear bowl at the bottom are for OutBoard Engines ONLY.

shopping



For enclosed InBoard Engines, the system with metal bowl must be used.





Either can use the same filtration cartridge.
 
Ok, I didn't get a chance to jump on it yesterday but got to it today. I pulled apart the main filter, and it looked clean and new. Although the gasket looked off. I also found sediment at the bottom of the housing on the pump itself (I have a low pressure system apparently). I pulled apart the carb intake fuel line and yanked the screen out if it and it had what looked to be a mud trail collected at the bottom. Pulled all lines and flushed the system. Cleaned the screen and put it all back together.

When looking at it, with the throttle at idle the choke plate was wide open. Well, that's not right, so I did some research and found how to adjust the choke. After adjusting the choke I decided to fire her up. Got the muffs on and started cranking away. I immediately noticed the inline filter (haven't removed yet, but will), filled very quickly, telling me she's pulling more fuel now. After a short bit of cranking and pumping gas she fired up. She missed for a short bit and eventually smoothed out. She still seems to have a slight hiccup, but I think better than before. Throttle response is much better. I set the idle to about 700 rpms and let her run. She runs nice for sure, and the inline fuel filter is no longer draining itself, even at higher rpms. That is a huge relief to me. Now I just need to get her out in the water for a quick load test and see how she does. If she does well on the water today, I'll get her back home and get proper equipment back into her and clean her up.
 
....................
...........................
When looking at it, with the throttle at idle the choke plate was wide open. Well, that's not right, so I did some research and found how to adjust the choke. After adjusting the choke I decided to fire her up. Got the muffs on and started cranking away. I immediately noticed the inline filter (haven't removed yet, but will), filled very quickly, telling me she's pulling more fuel now. After a short bit of cranking and pumping gas she fired up. She missed for a short bit and eventually smoothed out. She still seems to have a slight hiccup, but I think better than before. Throttle response is much better. I set the idle to about 700 rpm and let her run. She runs nice for sure, and the inline fuel filter is no longer draining itself, even at higher rpm.

Be sure to remove that in-line fuel filter, especially if it is the clear style, and especially if it's installed on the pressure side of the fuel delivery system!
See post #18 re; the RACOR units.
 
....................

Yes, I am going to get a fuel/water separator in there, was definitely a plan for sure.**The inline is on vacuum side between tank and pump. But she is definitely coming out.

​​​​​​​But I have an update.* I got the boat in the water again yesterday evening.* Ran the boat around 1500rpm for about 20 minutes in the lake with no issues.* After 20 minutes I decided to ease her into higher rpms and speeds.* I got her to top out at 3000rpm and about 28mph, and that was as fast as she would go.* I played with the tilt as much as I could and it would only slow down from where it was, but she wouldn't go over 3k rpms.* When turning she would slow down a bit to about 2700 rpms, then once straight would catch back up to 3k.* But other than that and the little bit of oil she burns from valve seals, she ran great.* Over the winter she will get some quality engine maintenance done tho, so not worried about the seals at this point.
 
.............
Yes, I am going to get a fuel/water separator in there, was definitely a plan for sure.**The inline is on vacuum side between tank and pump. But she is definitely coming out.
good!

​​​​​​​But I have an update.* I got the boat in the water again yesterday evening.* Ran the boat around 1500rpm for about 20 minutes in the lake with no issues.* After 20 minutes I decided to ease her into higher rpms and speeds.* I got her to top out at 3000rpm and about 28mph, and that was as fast as she would go.*
Your engine should be capable of reaching the OEM specified WOT RPM.
Even if you do not cruise at that RPM, it should be capable of reaching it.
Engine must be healthy and in full tune, bottom clean, etc, in order to perform the WOT RPM test!
The tachometer must also be accurate.
If it will not reach the WOT RPM, your engine may be over-burdened at any RPM!
 
Wide open full throttle rpm spec is 4400-4800 rpm, base timing is 8* BTDC.

What you describe sounds like a secondary top butterfly is not working properly.

Overall it sounds like you have a carb issue now that you have corrected some of your incoming fuel issues.

So a good carb rebiuld may be needed.
 
.............

Well out of the water she will ping 6k rpms, I figured with a load it wouldn't be as much, just didn't think 3k was it.

Clean that bottom!

Jeff

What? Lol, sorry but what does that mean? Clean the bottom of the boat?

Wide open full throttle rpm spec is 4400-4800 rpm, base timing is 8* BTDC.

What you describe sounds like a secondary top butterfly is not working properly.

Overall it sounds like you have a carb issue now that you have corrected some of your incoming fuel issues.

So a good carb rebiuld may be needed.

Wide open in the water is that range? Out of the water she goes higher for sure, but I know with a load it won't be as much. I've never touched the timing on it, without a manual I wouldn't dream of touching it and the distributor cap doesn't adjust on mine.

As far as the top butterfly, I tried adjusting it. I tightened until it closed, then gave an extra 1/8 turn after, and it seems to be alright, but I do agree, it definitely needs rebuilt. I'll have someone else do that as I'm not familiar enough with carbs to mess with that. But yes, I'm glad she's running a lot better than she was. She's almost to where she was before catching that rope in my prop. Used to be able to catch 4k rpms.
 
.................
Well out of the water she will ping 6k rpm, I figured with a load it wouldn't be as much, just didn't think 3k was it.
Operating and/or testing an engine while out of the water provides very little useful information.

What? Lol, sorry but what does that mean? Clean the bottom of the boat?
Yes, marine growth will definitely hurt performance.


Wide open in the water is that range? Out of the water she goes higher for sure, but I know with a load it won't be as much. I've never touched the timing on it, without a manual I wouldn't dream of touching it and the distributor cap doesn't adjust on mine.
Gasoline Marine engine ignition timing is critical.
Incorrect advance can hurt performance and can cause damage if excessive.


As far as the top butterfly, I tried adjusting it. I tightened until it closed, then gave an extra 1/8 turn after, and it seems to be alright, but I do agree, it definitely needs rebuilt. I'll have someone else do that as I'm not familiar enough with carbs to mess with that. But yes, I'm glad she's running a lot better than she was. She's almost to where she was before catching that rope in my prop. Used to be able to catch 4k rpm.
I think that the other post (if this is a Q-jet carburetor) was referring to the air door above the secondary throttle plates.


 
.................

In my case, running it out of the water at first did give a bit tho as it ran like crap out of the water too lol. Until fixing other issues before posting. But I do agree, running without a load doesn't say much.

I don't see any growth or grime on my boat honestly. Feels smooth as well.

I guess I will need to find a manual that shows how to set the timing, as I have never touched it.

I'm not sure what carb I have. I only see 2 plates at the bottom on the same shaft, and one large choke plate at the top.
 
...............
In my case, running it out of the water at first did give a bit tho as it ran like crap out of the water too lol. Until fixing other issues before posting. But I do agree, running without a load doesn't say much.
Correct!

I don't see any growth or grime on my boat honestly. Feels smooth as well.
Good!

I guess I will need to find a manual that shows how to set the timing, as I have never touched it.
It would be a good idea to verify.

I'm not sure what carb I have. I only see 2 plates at the bottom on the same shaft, and one large choke plate at the top.
That would be a 2 barrel carburetor, in which case the "What you describe sounds like a secondary top butterfly is not working properly" would not apply.
 
Setting/checking timing for a 1987 350 thunderbolt IV ignition is standard for that year.
Hook timing light to power, then spark plug lead to number ONE spark plug wire as close to the spark plug as possible.

Adjust distributor as needed. Losen distributor base clamp and turn distributor to achive base timing on marks.
 
Back
Top