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Rescue team in trouble with Honda BF50, pls help needed...

C

Chris:

New member
Hi!
I'm new on this forum but I hope for some good people will/can help me/as to solve our problem.
The story:
I'm a member of a rescue team in my country/Serbia, we own a Honda BF50 (this is our only worth engine what we have) and yesterday we
had run in some trouble with it and need urgent some advice or help.

The engine is out of warranty, we contacted a Honda repair center here and the told they can not help cos they have no diagnostic tool.

I'm an electronic engineer and have many years of experience in vehicle electronics repairing/diagnostic etc.

Yesterday we was on a mission and the engine started to make beep beep beep... sound and the max rpm was reduced to 2500rpm.
I think the engine is gone to some LIMP mode.

Can somebody give some advice how to read out the DTC's from the ECU without a proper diag tool?
I mean, is there a way to short out some pins and count some blinking and beeping sound?

Or maybe is there any DIY schematics than I can build up in my lab for diagnostic purpose?
I own the complete equipment to make a PCB and the whole stuff...

Any help would be nice.
Many many thanks from
Rescue Team Tisa Senta.
Chris.
 
You should post your model number and serial number to know how to offer advice. You can also get a complete shop manual from Honda on line via eBay and maybe other vendors.
Don
 
I can't help with developing software but you can buy it from BRP DIAGNOSTICS. They have a reasonably priced, reverse engineered software suite for Dr.H.

If you want help figuring out your outboard going into power derate then you should provide more info as NSDON suggested.

Frame number or at least date of manufacture. Tiller or console steer? Any lights that came on or went off during the beeping and power loss? Did the engine stop running? If so, how long did it continue to run after power loss?...those sorts of things may point to what may have happened.
 
Ok guys, thank's for the input.
Here are some infos about the engine:
It is a 2015 manufactured.
when it start to beeping the engine light is illuminating. Like on a car, the MIL lamp is on.
The power is automatically reduced and the rpm is falling down to 3000 rpm.
When I power off the engine, and start it again the problem disappears but comes back in an unpredictable time.
Maybe in one hour, maybe in 10 min but maybe in 2 days.
It is a console steer one.
For now, the engine never stopped to running when the MIL is on and the beep sound is ringing.

Here are some pictures about the engine.

I found some diag tool but I don't know if it is any worth:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_2,searchweb201603_52

It seems to be a sort of KK-L kable with some adapters...
I'm not sure...
 

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Hopefully someone else will step up with some help. I'm not experienced working on the fuel injected outboards. But I do know auto injection and have worked on the carbureted Honda twin cylinder models. Having said that, I have some comments and suggestions.

I see in your photo that the oil pressure light is not illuminated. Is that light green and normally on with the engine running until the problem occurs? Or, is that an erroneous description? If the green oil light goes out while the engine is running, it indicates low oil pressure.

There are some tutorials on this forum for using a paper clip to jumper two specific wires in the red diagnostic connector but the wire colors don't match the wire colors I see in your photo.

You can find some of these "how to" threads here by going to the top of this page and selecting "Popular Topics". When the search field opens, type CODES into the "key words" box. Then, scroll to the "user name" box and type chawk_man. Select search and his tutorials should come up for you.

I have no knowledge of the tool you found but it does sound like tools I've seen mentioned here before. Almost all that say they bought the tools seemed to be happy with the function. Although the last guy that bought one on Ebay said that his tool didn't list one of the four temperature sensors his outboard has. But, overall, he was still happy to have it and it did display live pid data. I see these as the equivalent of extremely overpriced "code readers" being sold today for cars. But the live data stream could actually be beneficial for diagnosing a problem. At any rate, they are the only thing currently available to consumers for this function. I use a few very expensive Snap On
and OTC diagnostic "scanners" for automotive use but even those don't do "everything" for qqall models. So, the price tag can be seen as relative to your needs and expectations.
 
Last edited:
Key off,t ake a small split pin, remove the red weather cap and bridge the blue to the yellow/black, key on, your check engine light will flash a code in short and long blinks, let me know what it does. For example, two long and a short is code 21, 2 short is 2 and so on. If there are multiple codes the will be about a 5 sec pause after each code.
 
Thanks guys for this nice infos.
The green oil light is actually green even if the MIL lamp is on and the beeping sound is ringing.

I checked for now:
- if oil level is correct = passed
- if water cooling system is working = passed
- if temp sensor is in range = passed
- if spark plugs are ok and ignition system = passed
- checked the MAF sensor = passed
- checked injectors driving circuit with scope = passed
- checked lambda sensor heating circuit = passed
- checked lambda sensor emission signal with scope when engin is warm = passed

About the diag tool:
If it can read the dtc's and delete it that is a big help for me for now and the live data reading is also very valuable for me.
I can also do some reworks or repair on this cheap diag tool if needed, i do such of hacks on vehicle diag tools too...

Thans all of you many times!
 
Well, if they have a reasonable return policy and guarantee, the $196 price for the software is about as good as you can do to my knowledge.

Iang6766 giving you the method for reading any codes is free. So, you now have options.

Please let us know if you get this problem sorted out. Your experience might be very valuable to someone.

Good luck!
 
Of course I will post about the repair process and I hope will find and trpair the problen. I will report everything when I sort out the problem.

Thanks for anything.
My best regards.
 
Hi!
Today I tried as Iang6766 wrote in #6 but no flashing icon.
The MIL lamp didn't flashed, that means there is no DTC's stored in the ecu?
Actually, now when I use the boat the MIL lamp is not on and no beep sound...

 
Chris: said:
Hi!
Today I tried as Iang6766 wrote in #6 but no flashing icon.
The MIL lamp didn't flashed, that means there is no DTC's stored in the ecu?
Actually, now when I use the boat the MIL lamp is not on and no beep sound...
Click to expand...
And still in “limp mode” or working good?
 
I’m part of Indian point Marine rescue, we were on this exercise. We have a Boston Whaler 25 ft outrage, twin 135 etecs. Look up Mahone Bay.
Don
 
Woow!
Nice place!
I hope one day I will visit you.

What I would ask is:
A guy from some marine engine service told me, does our problem could be bad fuel quality.
Even if I know our fuel is not a bad quality.
As I know from my many years of experience on vehicle electronic repairing, bad fuel quality never lead to
LIMP mode, and never got any DTC's like "bad fuel".

The same guy has a marine engine repair shop and should be a registered Honda repair service, but they don't own a diag tool too.
This is really doubtful to me

The MIL lamp is on only when the beep sound is coming on and the rpm falls down to max 2500rpm.
A bad fuel quality would lead to loss of power or stalking engine etc. but still won't drive the ecu to LIMP mode...

Any idea?
 
There are only two reasons for limp mode and that is oil pressure and overheat. It is possible you have a cylinder dropping out causing an alarm associated with the O2 sensor
 
Well, obviously SOMETHING is going wrong. I sure wouldn't argue with what Ian said.
I will add that, when I see an ECM doing something that doesn't fall within "operational parameters" or, in other words, acts up but doesn't log any codes, I start looking much more closely at two things:

1. Ignition coils.

2. Alternator.

Either one can and do produce RFI (radio frequency interference) at levels capable of "scrambling" the signals that the controller receives and sends. Of course, this leads to what is known in automotive jargon as "Driveability Issues" that are outside the norms of proper operations.

There are some simple tests that can be done that MIGHT catch a problem with these components but, like so many other things these days, to reliably interrogate these systems the use of a multi channel lab scope is often needed.

Also, I DO agree with your scepticism about an "Authorized Dealer" not having a factory diagnostic tool. But, I know that it can happen because I used to work for one. Actually, they did end up owning one but NEVER had a use for it because they didn't do ANY service work for the public. They didn't even SELL Honda outboards. They became an authorized dealer simply by making large enough purchases from Honda to meet a, seemingly arbitrary, monetary requirement.

I need to add that, even though I did see this occur, I do not know, specifically, what the arrangement with Honda and my employer was.
So, this is wholly my opinion only.
;>)
 
NSDON said:
i thought I had a link to a video, but here it is.
https://lighthousenow.ca/article.php?title=Search_and_rescue_officials_test_skills_in_Lunenbu
Click to expand...

Wooow! How good is that mate!
I wish I could be also a part of such of team like on the video. :D

Our rescue team is a small river type rescue tema.
We are all rescue divers too with many many years of experience in rescuing and searching situations most in rivers, leaks.
At the moment we are the only civil rescue team on the Tisa river in Serbia.
We have one boat with this one Honda BF50 which is our treasure and several smaller boats with smaller engines.
We are all volunteers and we are supported by local peoples and sometime by the government, because without them
we could not exist...
We are trying to make some contact to other rescue teams from the world too, so we can get maybe some support in any way,
cos without constant learning, upgrading the equipments etc. it is not possible to stay in shape.

However, I like the video you shared and hope one day to be a part something like that.

I own a multi channel bench scope and a handheld scope also, I use scopes, spec. analyzer etc. in my regular job...

Thanks for the infos guys.
My best regards.
 
Good to know you guys are out there willing to help save lives. Cool video!
Serbia, Canada and the USA talking boats....the internet CAN be great!
Thank you for volunteering!
 
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