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Honda 225 Ball Collapsing

D

dawgs

Regular Contributor
2003 Honda 225. At high RPM i lose power . Feels like its starving for fuel. At this time the ball goes flat (vacuum). Vent is clear...all lines and filters from the motor to the tank have been replaced...pick up is clean..

Next step?
 
Two things typically cause that, assuming that your tank vent is really clear - open the fuel filler cap while running to be sure.

1. A clogged or collapsed pickup tube in your tank. Remove it and check it.
2. A collapsed or broken check valve in your primer bulb. Replace the primer bulb.

One think - if you replaced the fuel lines, are they OEM or rated as OEM?
 
all oem. new bulb...new fuel lines. check valve removed to rule it out. fuel cap open. pick up removed and inspected... same issue
 
everything on the tank side of the motor is new and shouldn't be the problem. Vent is clear. Pick up is clear. Yesterday i replaced the low and high speed fuel filters. I did notice when I was replacing the high speed that the 3 screws holding the cover on were very loose. Loose enough that i can remove them by hand. I replaced the filter and o-ring and tightened it good. First thing tomorrow morning I will take it for a ride so I can open it up.

Whats the chances that those loose screws were maybe letting in air and somehow creating a vacuum?

Ill post tomorrow with the results of me sea test
 
No chance, that is full system pressure in there, not suction, would have been spraying fuel out, not sucking air.
 
The only way to check if your problem is fuel starvation is to monitor fuel pressure under load. You sure you're not experiencing a misfire?
 
Let's clear things up, here. When you say "ball collapsing" we've assumed you are talking about the primer bulb in line between the fuel tank and the on board fuel-water separator - is that correct?

If so, then to the best of my knowledge, there must be a restriction between the fuel tank and the primer bulb, OR the vent to the fuel tank is clogged. To eliminate that possibility, simply loosen the fuel filler cap to your tank. If that clears it up, then your vent is clogged. If not, then there MUST be a restriction between the fuel pick up in the tank and the primer bulb, UNLESS you have installed the incorrect fuel lines and/or primer bulb. One other possibility is the the primer bulb was installed backwards. Yet another possibility is the the fuel line has a flaw in it and cannot handle the considerable amount of draw from the two fuel pumps on the engine.
 
Ok went for a ride. Primer bulb collapsed again. Switched to external tank...ran fine. Went back to below deck tank...bulb collapsed. I switch back to my original pick up that I know is clean....runs fine. Now I'm back to my original configuration when the problem started and it seems to be ok. Wtf
 
Don't know, since I just order OEM lines from Boats.net. Ian will likely know. But suspect that the pick up is the problem.
 
So that goes back to my original suggestion to try an alternative fuel supply, so you do have a problem. 5/16 (8mm) lines are adequate for the Hondas. There has to be a issue with a kinked line or something in the tank.
 
had the boat out all day today. Babied it. Ran at 4500 at most....ran fine. When i get 15 minuted from the marina I open it up....after 15 minutes of WOT the ball begins to collapse . Only 2 things left on the fuel system. The pick up..which i removed and inspected ...and the water separator housing. Ill replace the pick up even though it looks perfect. Can there be something to do with the separator housing? Why only at WOT?
 
not sure if this helps at all but when the ball collapses if i open up the "dump" valve on the bottom of the separator you can hear and see air being drawn in and the ball inflating again
 
Opening the dump valve on the F/W separator while underway will draw in air - that would be normal.

When is the last time you changed the filter element in the external fuel/water separator?

Are your new fuel lines big enough - the 8 mm that Ian posted?
 
Could there be an issue with the new line installation?
If it runs fine on an external tank then it has to be somewhere in the lines up to the tank.
Have you tried by-passing the external separator to rule this out?
Although the pickup may look fine there may be an issue inside that you can't see.
That said, it's interesting that it took 15 mins of WOT for the bulb to start collapsing - this a fairly long time. To me that means that the lines are OK (otherwise the bulb might collapse straight away) and that maybe something is floating around in the tank and then finding it's way into the line.

Have you checked the bottom of the tank for crud?
 
Primer bulb should be before the main filter not after. Tank, pick ups, valve, hose 3/8, primer bulb, valve, main filter, hose 5/16, low pressure engine filter and so on.
 
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