BF225 starving fuel : maybe VST float stock closed

A month ago, I wrote here since I had a problem with my bf225 2003 dumping fuel out of the cowling by the VST breather.
Took down the VST and got to the float that was of course, stuck open. It was jammed in a sort of gunk

took on it apart, clean it and de-assemble it since I was not able to find a brand new part from the dealer


last week I ran the boat at 4000 rpm for 30 minutes or so, turn around and started to head back home

motor started to lose RPM and would go pass 3000rpm
when back yesterday and now it seams like it’s starving on fuel

could this be the VST stock closed not letting gas filling the VST completely ?

all filters are new
when I run the boat on idle with the engine cover off, I see that the low pressure fuel filter cup is not full. I use the primer bulb to prim it , it fills that cup but then it goes down halfway.
Is that normal ?

Yes, about half way or a bit more at idle is normal on my 225.

Your problem could be the VST, but also a hand full of other possibilities. Did you make sure that the float in the VST was set to spec? Height should be 1.1" to 1.3". See page 5-88 in the Helm manual. Having said that, if the engine was running fine for 30 minutes, then started acting up, I doubt if it is a float setting issue. There is a possibility that debris got into the float valve.

Did you have someone try pumping the primer bulb when it started losing rpm's? If so, what happened? If motor picks back up, you need to (1) check the check valve in the primer bulb and (2) test the low pressure fuel pump.

Do you have access to a fuel pressure gauge? If so, remove the fuel pressure relief bolt on top of the HP filter cover and hook up the fuel pressure gauge there. You will need a 6 mm adapter. You should get a reading between 41 and 48 psi at idle. Then disconnect and seal the vacuum tube. Fuel pressure should jump up a couple psi.

If pressure is out of spec, you need to test the fuel pressure regulator. Do you have access to the Helm Shop Manual? If so, there is a procedure in there for testing the regulator. See page 5-73. Sometimes the regulator needs to just be cleaned well, but it's a bear to get off.

Chawk_man

you are really an encyclopedia on BF225

i was alone riding the boat when that happened so I wasn’t able to pump the primer bulb and drive at 3000 rpm.

Ill get someone with me this week end to try this

I will also check my gas line from the tank, thru the Racor 10um and to the engine since I notice that there was a air leak at the barb connector from my gas line (with the bulb) before it connects to the engine.

Is that air leak could have been the problem ?

also I will most likely put 6 new spark plugs when I pull the bot out of the water since I don’t think those were replaced by the precious owner

thanks

chawk_man said:

Yes, about half way or a bit more at idle is normal on my 225.

Your problem could be the VST, but also a hand full of other possibilities. Did you make sure that the float in the VST was set to spec? Height should be 1.1" to 1.3". See page 5-88 in the Helm manual. Having said that, if the engine was running fine for 30 minutes, then started acting up, I doubt if it is a float setting issue. There is a possibility that debris got into the float valve.

Did you have someone try pumping the primer bulb when it started losing rpm's? If so, what happened? If motor picks back up, you need to (1) check the check valve in the primer bulb and (2) test the low pressure fuel pump.

Do you have access to a fuel pressure gauge? If so, remove the fuel pressure relief bolt on top of the HP filter cover and hook up the fuel pressure gauge there. You will need a 6 mm adapter. You should get a reading between 41 and 48 psi at idle. Then disconnect and seal the vacuum tube. Fuel pressure should jump up a couple psi.

If pressure is out of spec, you need to test the fuel pressure regulator. Do you have access to the Helm Shop Manual? If so, there is a procedure in there for testing the regulator. See page 5-73. Sometimes the regulator needs to just be cleaned well, but it's a bear to get off.

Click to expand...

Well, an air leak in the fuel line will certainly cause the problem you described. If your primer bulb and lines are more than 5 years old, it's time to change them out anyway.

Also, check there the fuel line goes through the big black grommet where it enters the engine compartment. Often times, the line will collapse right as it enters the grommet, or inside the grommet, restricting fuel flow. This will often happen just at higher rpm's because the fuel pumps are pulling more fuel through the lines.

Thanks.
All the lines from the transom fitting to the grommet are new. Same with the bulbs
I have just run a clear plastic line from
the in floor gas tank pick up to the engine by bypassing the racor filter and other lines in between

I get a firm prime from the bulb and I can fill the low pressure filter cup.

When i run the engine on idle I see that the low pressure cup empties completely which I think could be link to low pressure pump issue.

What do do you think ?

chawk_man said:

Well, an air leak in the fuel line will certainly cause the problem you described. If your primer bulb and lines are more than 5 years old, it's time to change them out anyway.

Also, check there the fuel line goes through the big black grommet where it enters the engine compartment. Often times, the line will collapse right as it enters the grommet, or inside the grommet, restricting fuel flow. This will often happen just at higher rpm's because the fuel pumps are pulling more fuel through the lines.

Click to expand...

I assume that there were no air bubbles in the clear plastic line. Correct?

It seems to me that if the LP fuel filter cup is emptying out, then the problem is more likely between the fuel tank and the LP filter. Either you are getting air into the fuel lines or there is a blockage. So back to basics...

1. Open up the filler cap to the tank and test again. The vent tube to the tank could be plugged up.

2. While running, feel the primer bulb to make sure it is not collapsing. If so, then your pick up tube in the fuel tank may be clogged.

3. If neither of the above, run your clear plastic line from the fuel pickup out of the tank directly to the LP fuel filter, bypassing the primer bulb too. Then try to start. If the LP fuel pump is working, it will draw some fuel into the bowl of the LP fuel filter. It is possible that the check valve in the primer bulb has failed and is blocking flow. Or it is possible that air is being drawn in somewhere around the primer bulb.

4. If none of that reveals the problem, then hook up an auxiliary fuel tank directly to the line coming out of the LP fuel filter - the one that goes to the LP pump and test again. (Note that when I do this, I install an inline fuel filter like the ones you find on garden tractors, just to make sure I'm not drawing any junk into the VST.)

i had the same kind of problem with one of mine. chased it for a couple days. the previous owner had put blue fuel line on there that had an " ethanol proof" liner in it. at higher rpms it was sucking that liner shut at the fittings. i cut the ends off the lines and tried again but ultimately ended up putting all new Gates barricade lines everywhere. solved that problem but still have some others. hope it is something simple for you. good luck.

To comeback on this topic, engine was running OK on the external tank for 30 minutes and then loosing power again.
So back to investigation. I think the issue of most likely the screen at the bottom of the fuel pump or the fuel pump itself since it was only stalling when asking for more power

Removed everything to make it to the VST (again) and this time I extracted the fuel pump to get to the insulator and the screen.
To my surprise, everything was stuck in a lot of rusty sediments. See picturea below
Remember that the previous owner was running the engine with no low pressure fuel filter and when I got it, the high pressure filter was crushed by pressure

so now after cleaning everything, I orders the pump insulator and I think I’ll order a brand new pump also. Engine is 2003 and I don’t feel like going back to the VST a 3rd time

what do you think ?

chawk_man said:

I assume that there were no air bubbles in the clear plastic line. Correct?

It seems to me that if the LP fuel filter cup is emptying out, then the problem is more likely between the fuel tank and the LP filter. Either you are getting air into the fuel lines or there is a blockage. So back to basics...

1. Open up the filler cap to the tank and test again. The vent tube to the tank could be plugged up.

2. While running, feel the primer bulb to make sure it is not collapsing. If so, then your pick up tube in the fuel tank may be clogged.

3. If neither of the above, run your clear plastic line from the fuel pickup out of the tank directly to the LP fuel filter, bypassing the primer bulb too. Then try to start. If the LP fuel pump is working, it will draw some fuel into the bowl of the LP fuel filter. It is possible that the check valve in the primer bulb has failed and is blocking flow. Or it is possible that air is being drawn in somewhere around the primer bulb.

4. If none of that reveals the problem, then hook up an auxiliary fuel tank directly to the line coming out of the LP fuel filter - the one that goes to the LP pump and test again. (Note that when I do this, I install an inline fuel filter like the ones you find on garden tractors, just to make sure I'm not drawing any junk into the VST.)

Click to expand...

No pictures. But sediment in the fuel pump bowl is the likely culprit. If so, there are other screens and filters that could have been affected. See the attached for a list of all the filters and fuel screens on this engine.

View attachment Fuel filters and screens on BF 200 and BF 225.pdf

Thans Chawk-man,
the pictues didnt load up from my iphone. Here are the picture.

Picture #1 :High pressure fuel filter I changed first time i got the engine on On June 15 2019.Engine had only 335 hours but had been sitting for a couple of years.
Picture #2-4 icture of the fuel pump that i took out of the VST yesterday night.

Should I look at the other filters (like the one on the fuel rail) and should i be worry about the injectors ?
I was taking of doing the injectors cleaning/replacement this winter since the boat was running other than the fuel starvation.

Currently waiting 4 days for the parts to arrive from boats.net since my local Honda Marine Dealer had nothing on stock here in Montreal Canada

chawk_man said:

No pictures. But sediment in the fuel pump bowl is the likely culprit. If so, there are other screens and filters that could have been affected. See the attached for a list of all the filters and fuel screens on this engine.

View attachment 21362

Click to expand...

Well, I think you might hope that that HP filter did it's job, even though it is in a sorry state. So clean out everything meticulously, put it back together and see if that cures the problem. If not, go back to my post #6 and start from there. You may need to get to the injector filter and injectors, but recommend that you take one step at a time.

Once you get it back together and running, check your fuel pressure. There is a fuel pressure relief bolt on top of the cover to the HP fuel filter. Remove that and install your fuel pressure gauge there. It's 6 mm, so you may need an adapter. At idle, fuel pressure should be between 41 & 48 psi. And when you remove the vacuum tube from the fuel pressure regulator and block it, fuel pressure should jump up a few psi. If fuel pressure is too high, then you may need to attack those downstream filters and screens.

thanks again !!
i was also planning on changing the fuel pump while everything is open since the amount of sediment might have damaged the inside of the pump, what do you think ?
fuel pump 16735-ZY3-004 is 259U
would you also change the fuel refgulator at the same time ?
fuel regulator 1674-A01 is 69.36$US

all of that is still cheaper than driving the boat on a trailer to my local dealer that will charge me 100$ an hour to guess what hes doing

chawk_man said:

Well, I think you might hope that that HP filter did it's job, even though it is in a sorry state. So clean out everything meticulously, put it back together and see if that cures the problem. If not, go back to my post #6 and start from there. You may need to get to the injector filter and injectors, but recoijoèmmend that you take one step at a time.

Once you get it back together and running, check your fuel pressure. There is a fuel pressure relief bolt on top of the cover to the HP fuel filter. Remove that and install your fuel pressure gauge there. It's 6 mm, so you may need an adapter. At idle, fuel pressure should be between 41 & 48 psi. And when you remove the vacuum tube from the fuel pressure regulator and block it, fuel pressure should jump up a few psi. If fuel pressure is too high, then you may need to attack those downstream filters and screens.

Click to expand...

Well, personally I wouldn't change the regulator unless it tested out as faulty. But I'm a tight wad. Do you have a Helm Shop Manual? The testing procedure is in there.

If no manual, send an e-mail to me at [email protected] and I will send back a link to an online manual and show you how to search it.

Hey Chawk

Changed the high pressure pump and rebuilt the VST
nefine now run strong. Have been commuting to my hunting camp and have put 150 miles on the engine mainly cruising at 4000 rpm to cover the distance

pulled out the boat on the trailer today and noticed some black streaks coming down from the 2 holes on the back of the engine.
see picture

do you know what this could be ?
engine is 2003 with less than 400 hours.
only run in fresh water.

chawk_man said:

Well, personally I wouldn't change the regulator unless it tested out as faulty. But I'm a tight wad. Do you have a Helm Shop Manual? The testing procedure is in there.

If no manual, send an e-mail to me at [email protected] and I will send back a link to an online manual and show you how to search it.

Click to expand...

No picture attached.

Could be several things. Are you using fresh, high-quality fuel?

Have you added any decarboning chemicals to your fuel? (e.g. Ring Free, or Sea Foam)

Have you pulled codes to see if your HO2 sensor has failed? Here is the procedure for doing that: View attachment Procedure for Getting Fault Codes.pdf A code "1" would be a failed HO2 sensor. That will make the engine run rich.

When is the last time you changed plugs? And you should be using only NGK IZFR6F11 iridium-tipped plugs.

Pull your plugs and check the burn, and compare to all other plugs. Each should have a light brown coating on the electrode.

That's a start...

chawk_man said:

No picture attached.

Could be several things. Are you using fresh, high-quality fuel?

Have you added any decarboning chemicals to your fuel? (e.g. Ring Free, or Sea Foam)

Have you pulled codes to see if your HO2 sensor has failed? Here is the procedure for doing that: View attachment 21654 A code "1" would be a failed HO2 sensor. That will make the engine run rich.

When is the last time you changed plugs? And you should be using only NGK IZFR6F11 iridium-tipped plugs.

Pull your plugs and check the burn, and compare to all other plugs. Each should have a light brown coating on the electrode.

That's a start...

Click to expand...

My bad, every time i try to upload pictures from my iPhone it doesn't work,
here is the pictures from my computer
To answer your questions :
1. Yes the boat was fulled with 292 liters of premium gas 94 octanes (no ethanol). Thats a full full tank
2. before toping gas, my local local mechanic (that doesn't know too much about hondas, mainly does mercury) add injector cleaner to treat 250 Liters of gas in the tank. We then put 292 liters of fresh gas without running the engine and left for our fishing camp. Run the boat for 240 km(150 miles) so i probably burned 134 Liters of fresh fuel.
3. I havent pull codes yet, but when i bought the boat in May 2019, I brought it to the Honda dealer who connected the computer to it and told me that the engine had 350 hours on it and that the only code was the Intake Air Temperature. He didn't had the part on hand so we didn't change it back then :-( Now, i recall this and maybe i should have order that with all the other parts i changed in the VST and the high pressure pump :-(

4. For pulling the code, can i use a car OBD2 reader on a marine honda engine ? Wouldn't mind investing a bit of money on a machine like that since the boat that i bought doesn't have the lights near the key anymore. Remember, i bought that boat/engine from a guy that had a project to put them back together but he never did. Lots of stuff were not done properly on this rig.

5. Plugs were all changed at the same time as i changed the high pressure pump (2 weeks ago) and yes i used the NGK IZFR6F11
See picture from when i removed the plugs 2 weeks ago.

6. I'll check the plugs again later today.

chawk_man said:

No picture attached.

Could be several things. Are you using fresh, high-quality fuel?

Have you added any decarboning chemicals to your fuel? (e.g. Ring Free, or Sea Foam)

Have you pulled codes to see if your HO2 sensor has failed? Here is the procedure for doing that: View attachment 21654 A code "1" would be a failed HO2 sensor. That will make the engine run rich.

When is the last time you changed plugs? And you should be using only NGK IZFR6F11 iridium-tipped plugs.

Pull your plugs and check the burn, and compare to all other plugs. Each should have a light brown coating on the electrode.

That's a start...

Click to expand...

An auto OBD2 will not work. Here is the procedure for pulling codes and a file telling you what the codes mean.
View attachment Procedure for Getting Fault Codes.pdf
View attachment MIL Fault Codes Scanned.pdf

Best procedure is to pull codes, then clear them, run the engine for at least 20 minutes, then pull codes again.

That first picture looks like an oil leak coming out of the bottom of the upper cowling. Pull the upper cowling and see if you can see where it is coming from.

Looking at the plugs in the second picture, it looks like you are running too rich. When you pull codes, if you get a code "1" that is likely a failed HO2 sensor, although a bad coil, a bad plug, or fuel pressure out of spec can also throw a code "1".

Segomil82 said:

A month ago, I wrote here since I had a problem with my bf225 2003 dumping fuel out of the cowling by the VST breather.
Took down the VST and got to the float that was of course, stuck open. It was jammed in a sort of gunk

took on it apart, clean it and de-assemble it since I was not able to find a brand new part from the dealer


last week I ran the boat at 4000 rpm for 30 minutes or so, turn around and started to head back home

motor started to lose RPM and would go pass 3000rpm
when back yesterday and now it seams like it’s starving on fuel

could this be the VST stock closed not letting gas filling the VST completely ?

all filters are new
when I run the boat on idle with the engine cover off, I see that the low pressure fuel filter cup is not full. I use the primer bulb to prim it , it fills that cup but then it goes down halfway.
Is that normal ?

Click to expand...

There’s a control module on front of motor in controls fuel pump and couple other things. About a hundred bucks. Fixed my buddies with same issue.