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Penta 275 or 290

C

CSJ

Member
Ok, I have the 171 running decent now, I'm ready to pull it from the donor boat and put it in my boat. From my understanding, I have to pull the out drive in order to get the engine out... correct? Anyways, the 171 has a 290 behind it. The 131 I'm pulling out of my board has a 275 behind it. Should I keep the 290 with the 171 or stay with the 275? Both of them are in decent shape and I believe they both operate properly.
Also should I keep the controls from the donor boat with the engine or am I ok with keeping the original controls in my boat?
Thanks in advance
 
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CSJ said:
Ok, I have the 171 running decent now, I'm ready to pull it from the donor boat and put it in my boat. From my understanding, I have to pull the out drive in order to get the engine out... correct?
Not necessarily. That typically applies to the gimbal suspension stern drives.

a..... if reusing the 131 flywheel cover (bell housing in the auto world), you can separate the engine from the flywheel cover, leaving the flywheel cover attached to the 275 transom shield.
b..... if pulling the 131 engine with the F/C attached to the engine, you will need to remove the transmission ONLY, and then carefully loosen the 6 clamping collar bolts.

If doing "b" above, you will want to replace the inner most (forward) rubber cushion ring. Both rubber cushion rings provide the rear engine isolation, with the FWD rubber cushion ring providing the very important water seal.


Anyways, the 171 has a 290 behind it. The 131 I'm pulling out of my boat has a 275 behind it. Should I keep the 290 with the 171 or stay with the 275? Both of them are in decent shape and I believe they both operate properly.
The 290 will offer power trim..... the 275 will not.
If you take the 290 over to the keeper boat, you'll also need to take the trim pump and all wiring with it.
In either event, the final reduction needs to be 2.15:1.

Also should I keep the controls from the donor boat with the engine or am I ok with keeping the original controls in my boat?
If you take the 290 over to the keeper boat, you will want the trim control function to go with it.

Thanks in advance
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RicardoMarine said:
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I think I'm going to keep the 290 mated up with the 171 on the keeper boat, but my 275 also has power trim on it. That may be an aftermarket set up though, I'm not exactly sure of the history on this boat other than I'm the second owner since 1988 and there's a hole in the side of the block i can fit a softball through.
 
CSJ said:
I think I'm going to keep the 290 mated up with the 171 on the keeper boat, but my 275 also has power trim on it. That may be an aftermarket set up though, I'm not exactly sure of the history on this boat other than I'm the second owner since 1988 and there's a hole in the side of the block i can fit a softball through.
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The 275 was not offered with Power Trim, and I am not aware of any 275 Power Trim After-Market kit.


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RicardoMarine said:
The 275 was not offered with Power Trim, and I am not aware of any 275 Power Trim After-Market kit.


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I will take some pics and try to upload them for you after I get off work this evening. If that's possible on this forum.
The trim controls on the donor boat are on the side of the shift/throttle control. The controls on the 275 are on the dash. Then again this may not be a 275, I may just have a shift linkage cover off a 275. That's where I'm getting the info that it's a 275, from the decal on the cover.
 
RicardoMarine said:
The 275 was not offered with Power Trim, and I am not aware of any 275 Power Trim After-Market kit.


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Ok Ricardo, lack of intelligence on the subject may be the culprit here, is tilt and trim the same thing? I'm not sure myself, the 290 boat has a trim up/down switch and a tilt up/down switch. The 275 boat has a tilt up/down switch only.
 
By the way...... the mechanical Lift-Out unit is not intended to be used as a power trim.
Severe damage to the vice rod may occur if we were to power up while the drive is raised.
However, it can be used as such at very low RPM and in FWD gear only.
 
Ricardo,
Do I need to take the inner and outer transom shield plates off of the donor boat as well or are the ones on the 275 going to be the same as the 290? I'm not exactly sure as to when I'm going to get this project completely under weigh but I am hoping to see water at least a couple times this season si I guess it is going to have to be soon
 
Ok, so I removed the 275 this afternoon. I guess I had it in my mind that this was going to be a nightmare. Really it wasn't half bad. The worst part was getting the pins out that hold the outdrive to the transom shield. I plan to pull the engine tomorrow.
 
CSJ said:
Ok, so I removed the 275 this afternoon. I guess I had it in my mind that this was going to be a nightmare. Really it wasn't half bad. The worst part was getting the pins out that hold the outdrive to the transom shield. I plan to pull the engine tomorrow.
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For those of us who routinely remove an AQ series drive, we pull the transmission ONLY first.
Then if need be, we carefully drive the suspension fork "hinge pins" from the transom shield arms so that the Intermediate housing and lower gear unit can be removed.

NOTE: The two suspension fork hinge pins are soft. DO NOT drive on them with a steel drift punch.
If they were to become expanded any, you will play HELL trying to remove them.
Use a brass or aluminum punch.

I am glad that these came out for you.


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I can see where that would make the job bit lighter.
Let me ask you this, the transom shields on the two are totally different, is the bolt pattern different as well?
 
CSJ said:
I can see where that would make the job bit lighter.
Let me ask you this, the transom shields on the two are totally different, is the bolt pattern different as well?
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If you are asking about the difference between the 250, 270, 280, 285, 275 transom shields against the 290 transom shield..... yes... the bolt pattern is a bit different.
The 290 uses studs as apposed to the carriage style bolts.
The 290 studs pattern is also within the rope gasket area.

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I pulled the 290 today and the u joints look horrible. Its definitely been well greased, but it is also obvious that water has gotten in, I'm hoping through the below, but I'm not sure. Is there a way for water and oil to get in from either the engine or the outdrive?
With this new discovery, should I go back with the 275 and lose the power trim ad antage?
 
When I removed the uj bellow clamp, milky water poured out. I doesn't look like the below itself is damaged. I have to be getting the water from either the output from the engine or the input side of the outdrive. I also have milky oil in the crank case. I plan to rebuild this 171 before reinstalling it in the keeper, I'm just undecided as to weather to scrap the idea of using the 290 over the 275 without knowing if the water is coming from the outdrive itself or the engine.
 
CSJ said:
When I removed the uj bellow clamp, milky water poured out. I doesn't look like the below itself is damaged. I have to be getting the water from either the output from the engine or the input side of the outdrive. I also have milky oil in the crank case. I plan to rebuild this 171 before reinstalling it in the keeper, I'm just undecided as to weather to scrap the idea of using the 290 over the 275 without knowing if the water is coming from the outdrive itself or the engine.
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If the drive shaft bellows is not damaged, and if it is in good condition, and if is has been clamped correctly (Euro style clamps only), it is very likely not the source of your water intrusion.

Both the 290 and 275 will be using the double bolt helmet pin.
Occasionally an owner (or uneducated or inexperienced mechanic) will install the wrong cap screws (too long).
If so, the cap screws will break through the clamping collar and will open up the threads to water intrusion.
Check to see if this is the cause.

Volvo Penta dbl bolt helmet pin issue.jpg
 
I got the 171 pulled out of the donor boat and pulled the bell housing off. The flywheel is dry as a bone so the oil isn't coming from the engine. I pulled the dipstick out of the outdrive and it looks clean as a bell also. So I looked back at the bellow... there are 2 small holes right behind the screw on the clamp. So I believe I've found the leak there. Now to start tearing down the engine for the rebuild. I will be starting with the top end and deciding from there weather to do a complete rebuild.
 
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CSJ said:
I got the 171 pulled out of the donor boat and pulled the bell housing off.
In the Marine world that would be your Flywheel Cover.

The flywheel is dry as a bone so the oil isn't coming from the engine. I pulled the dipstick out of the outdrive and it looks clean as a bell also. So I looked back at the bellow... there are 2 small holes right behind the screw on the clamp. So I believe I've found the leak there.
Here's the deal whether related to the long helmet pin bolt damage or related to a leaking bellows:
When water enters this area it causes rust on the carbon steel seal surface washer.
As the rust becomes worse, it becomes abrasive and starts to eat away at the seal lip.
Shortly..... we have gear oil leaking into the bellows area, and eventually water entering the drive.
The repair involves transmission disassembly and replacement of this washer and seal.


Now to start tearing down the engine for the rebuild. I will be starting with the top end and deciding from there weather to do a complete rebuild.
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So the 4 bolts directly behind the ujoints, can I remove them to replace that seal? Is it more involved than that? Can I also replace the ujoint yoke while I'm in there?
 
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CSJ said:
So the 4 bolts directly behind the ujoints, can I remove them to replace that seal?
These would be the four cap screws that secure the bearing box into the main gear case.

Is it more involved than that?
By removing the bearing box, you will gain access to the cap screw that secures the male yoke in the main drive gear.
Once this is removed, you will have access to the main seal and seal surface washer.

Can I also replace the ujoint yoke while I'm in there?
Yes.... if it needs to be replaced.
Note that the universal drive shaft contains 2 yokes..... one female and one male.
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Any of the Pre-A transmissons will be wet areas at the bolt threads.
Any of the A and later transmission bolt threads will be dry.

If pre-A, you will want to apply propane or map gas heat at the areas of the thread inserts prior to attempting to remove the four cap screws.
If heat is not used, you may have trouble with the removal, and may strip out the hex sockets.
 
Well, I got the 4 cap screws out that hold the bearing box on but it's not wanting to come off. Am I missing something else here? I got it to move away from the main gear case about 1/8" but that's it. I'm hesitant to force it too much no knowing what exactly is behind it.
I intend on using the bearing box and yokes from the 275, they look brand new without any play in them. What do you think?
 
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CSJ said:
Well, I got the 4 cap screws out that hold the bearing box on but it's not wanting to come off. Am I missing something else here? I got it to move away from the main gear case about 1/8" but that's it. I'm hesitant to force it too much no knowing what exactly is behind it.
Apply some even heat to the main gear case in that area. It will expand just enough so that the bearing box will come out.


I intend on using the bearing box and yokes from the 275, they look brand new without any play in them. What do you think?
I think that you should NOT try to interchange these parts!
The three gears are machined as a "set", and cannot be mixed/matched.
Even if you were to interchange the bearing box and clamping collar only........ this would require AQ series set-up experience that you may not have.

Now..... if you have the Pre-A transmission, and if you are wanting to swap the aluminum clamping collars ONLY, that also involves going through the re-shimming process.

It would be helpful to know which transmissions you have......290 or 290A....... 275 or 275A????

If you post a few photos, I can tell you which transmissions you have.
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I'm not positive, but I believe they are both A series.
My main concern is not necessarily the bearing box, but rather the yoke going into it. The one on it now may be fine with a little bit of clean up, I'm not sure yet
 
Ok, they are both A series outdrive and A series engines.

I have got this 171 somewhat tore down, but I have a question... do I have to take each individual cam off in order to remove the head?
 
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