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Mercruiser power steering problem

I

iaff284

Contributing Member
Hey all,

We have a new to us 2003 Four Winns 260H engine 0M621773 and drive 0M149309. When we bought the boat the steering was stiff so I rolled the dice on the steering cable being bad. Replace the cable and the rotary helm and it did not help. It was almost impossible to turn. I pulled the pins to check both the steering cable(the new one) and move the drive both of which are easy to move with no resistance when you move them. I put the pin back in the steering cable at the ram and ran the engine and it feels like there is no assistance from the power steering pump. When I put the pin back in for the drive and turn the wheel with the engine running if felt like it was "sticking" and occasionally the pump would help. I pulled the actuator and seperated the tube and there were small black particles inside. I cleaned the tube and worked the valve with marvel mystery oil and it seemed like the valve was functioning correctly. I then flushed the pump and lines with marvel mystery oil and then Mercon V fluid. I reassembled everything and bleed the system by hand before starting the engine. Now when I run the engine and turn the wheel it still feels like the pump is helping occasionally but when I turn it back from lock to right the actuator will shudder hard enough to shake the whole boat. If I move the wheel slowly it does not do it. I am thinking that maybe the pressure valve in the pump is stuck or sticking? Any help is appreciated!
 
It is the power steering assist assembly. Bad/sticking valve inside.

Either replace or remove and disassemble and clean and retry. Not sure there are parts available for that assembly.

There is no parts break down which tells me no parts. Only complete assembly.

I would seek used from junk boat close to your year, they are all pretty much the same within a few years of manufacture.

http://www.marineengine.com/parts/m...-genii-1998-and-up/0l100040-up/power-steering
 
Besides the shutter shaking the boat, 'Does the steering seem easy/normal again?

Being you have a Bravo 3 drive, sometimes the B-3's have been known to shutter while out of the water at times just after servicing or even when new but under load of being in the water the shutter typically may go away...Also part two of the shutter could be a sign that you still have a bit of air left in the power steering fluid that you need to keep turning the wheel lock to lock to help bleedout the self bleeding system...It's suggested to turn the wheel 10 times but sometime it takes a bit more especially noticeable with the bravo 3's.

Also be sure the mercruiser power assist actuator flats are vertical as mentioned in the following,

2009-07-08_231118_mercactuator.jpg
 
Thanks for the help everyone. The flats are vertical and I have worked the wheel lock to lock probably 30+ times by now. I will take the actuator back off and try and disassemble the valve. I know its the same valve that is in the corvettes from the sixties up into the early eighties. There was a guy on one of the forums that showed the teardown of the actuator valve. I will try and track down the post.
 
Thanks O2batsea, I will keep that in mind. I got the ram out and tore down completely. The valve is clean and appears to be functioning correctly. when I pull the piston in and out of the valve body it is tight and sticks when you stop and start. I am assuming that is what is causing the hang up. It appears to be sticking on the seal at the end of the shaft. Anyone know how tight that shaft is when it rides on the that seal? Does anyone know if there is a replacement seal available? The info printed on the seal is HI-TEMP EP-22 26005158. Thanks again
 
Ok, here is the latest....I pulled the actuator and completely disassembled it and cleaned it. Put it all back together and bench tested its operation and it appears to be working correctly. Put it back in the boat and bleed the system and tested it with little change in the steering. Still hard to turn. If I turn the wheel really fast it appears to lighten up and feel better. If I go slow it is hard and will occasionally shudder. While I had it running I momentarily crimped the high pressure line and I could not here a whine or a strain on the pump. I have pulled the pump and am taking the reservoir and pressure valve out and swapping in a remaned auto pump. Is the cable supposed to be secured and clamped all the way to the bilge or should it be loose to move the acutator?
 
Another follow up question, how easy should the valve actuator be to move back and forth? After reassembly I can move the valve but I have to put against the bench and put my weight on it to move it. The is no way I could move it with light pressure. After thinking about it, how much pressure will the cable put on the actuator? If everything is moving freely I doubt there is enough pressure to move the valve. I found a video online that showed someone moving the valve by pushing and pulling on it with the cable removed. I seriously doubt I can do that with mine. Any thoughts?
 
So another update, I replaced the steering actuator with a new one and the steering is slighly better but still stiff. The drive moves freely when disconnected. I can here the power steering pump strain when it hits the lock so I know the pump is making pressure. The only option left is to put a gauge on the power steering pump and see what the pressures are. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
So after pricing power steering test gauges and then spending hours trying to locate and price the hardware to rig up my own gauge setup I am at a crossroads. I can spend 125.00 on a gauge setup or spend 50 to go ahead and replace the pump. This steering issue is wearing me out. Does anyone have any other suggestions or a gauge set I can borrow or rent?
 
So just a recap, new cable, new actuator, new steering box and fresh fluid. Cable and drive move free when disconnected. When turned to full lock in both direction I can hear the power steering pump strain. At a total loss short of replacing the pump.
 
Can the two lines going into actuator be reversed?

Older power steering actuators had two different sized fittings. The current looks like from the pictures they are the same??

Maybe switch them and see? if not the same size disregard.
 
So after putting some thought into this.....is it possible that the swivel pin nut is loose and not creating enough resistance to allow the shuttle valve on the steering actuator to stay engaged. If I turn the wheel quickly to either side there is a brief moment where the steering assist kicks in and feels normal. Usually then the steering will shudder for a second where it feels like the actuator is “bouncing” because the drive has started moving and there is little resistance. Any thoughts on this??
 
if you have changed everytihing else, the pump seems to be the most logical next step,

also, you said the actuator is hard to manipulate withought putting it against a bench and putting your weight behind it, is that stil the case or did you swap the actuator for another?
if the ramis stuck and wont flow back and forth, then it wont work properly, the ram wors by the cable pulling or pushing against it, it should not be hard to do, you should be able to pull on the cable nut and work the system,
 
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Ok, latest update......replaced the pump and it made very little change. So I spent the afternoon trying to further diagnose.....If I have my son turn the wheel slowly to Starboard I can almost stop the drive with my hands and he can barely turn the wheel. When you turn to Port I can slow the drive movement but he can still turn the wheel and keep the drive moving but it is hard for him. If I pull or push on the cable nut at the actuator while he is turning the wheel in either direction he said it is very easy to turn. I am only moving the nut an additional 1/8" maybe. I CANNOT move the cable nut without the steering wheel being turned. At this point it is either the actuator spring is to stiff, or there is an issue with the cable/helm. All three of the items have been replaced. The helm is Teleflex SH91253-1B, the cable is a Uflex MM66-18, and the actuator was ordered from marine surplus. I have contemplated switching to a hydraulic steering setup but don't really want to spend another 1500.00. This is a simple system that normally works well.........So frustrated....any help is appreciated
 
iaff284 said:
Ok, latest update......replaced the pump and it made very little change. So I spent the afternoon trying to further diagnose.....If I have my son turn the wheel slowly to Starboard I can almost stop the drive with my hands and he can barely turn the wheel. When you turn to Port I can slow the drive movement but he can still turn the wheel and keep the drive moving but it is hard for him. If I pull or push on the cable nut at the actuator while he is turning the wheel in either direction he said it is very easy to turn. I am only moving the nut an additional 1/8" maybe. I CANNOT move the cable nut without the steering wheel being turned. At this point it is either the actuator spring is to stiff, or there is an issue with the cable/helm. All three of the items have been replaced. The helm is Teleflex SH91253-1B, the cable is a Uflex MM66-18, and the actuator was ordered from marine surplus. I have contemplated switching to a hydraulic steering setup but don't really want to spend another 1500.00. This is a simple system that normally works well.........So frustrated....any help is appreciated
Click to expand...

is the cable binding? is it too long, too short? is the cable free once it comes around the transom from the starboard side? the cable should have nothing secured to it and it should float freely at the back transom
when you pull the pin, does the cable move freely, like you should be able to spin the wheel with a finger

pull the cable and run the engine, manipulate the threaded end where the cale attaches to , iss if the actuator extends and contracts smoothly,
 
With the pin pulled the cable moves freely with one finger. I wondered about it being to long..... Four Winns lists both an 18' and a 17' steering cable. The one that was on there was an 18' so I replaced it with that. It looks free and there is nothing securing it to the transom or the starboard side of the boat. Tomorrow I will post a pic of the cable layout and pull the cable and try to manipulate the acutator. I took a video earlier of the steering actutator being operated with both the engine off and running. You can see a difference in how far the valve moves with the engine off vs engine on. You can also see the cable nut bouncing back and forth causing the boat to shake.
 
Here is the video from yesterday. With the engine off you can clearly see the cable nut move the actuator like it should. When I start the engine its hard to tell but the cable nut is not moving the actuator fully. Its like it moves the valve enough for the valve to start allowing fluid to move but then as soon as it helps moving the drive the spring pushes the valve closed.

 
Here are the pics for the steering cable. I can move the cable around freely and it does not appear to be bound up or caught on anything. I am going to bypass the oil cooler tomorrow just to rule it out and will report back



image2.jpgimage1.jpeg
 
Yeah, the actuator has been replaced. I bypassed the cooler and no change.......I have no idea. I guess I will look at a hydraulic conversion. This is insane.
 
As a last ditch effort, does anyone have a known good actuator that I can borrow? I will pay shipping and if it works will buy the actuator. Any help is appreciated as always.
 
Final update to close this thread.....I have no idea what is causing the issue. I am going to switch to a full hydraulic internal setup. Thanks to all those who helped.
 
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