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BassAckwards

Contributing Member
I have a 95 Sea Ray with a 4.3 l. Its well beyond time to have it replaced so I'm trying to set aside money to have it done. Having a shop pull the old replace with a full long block going to run me about 6 grand. But I'd be interested if it sounds feasible to have a long block ordered delivered to a shop where they just swap the block, since I don't have a engine lift or the ability to use one at my home. Then I would replace/ reinstall everything else myself. anyone done something like this and you can kind of walk me through the process? Is there anything that can't be done on the block once it's installed in the boat?
 
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BassAckwards said:
I have a 95 Sea Ray with a 4.3 l. Its well beyond time to have it replaced so I'm trying to set aside money to have it done. Having a shop pull the old replace with a full long block going to run me about 6 grand. But I'd be interested if it sounds feasible to have a long block ordered delivered to a shop where they just swap the block, since I don't have a engine lift or the ability to use one at my home.
A long block includes the cylinder block, complete rotating assembly and cylinder heads, and occasionally the tin-wear.
If you purchase a long block, they would be installing a long block.... correct?

Then I would replace/ reinstall everything else myself. anyone done something like this and you can kind of walk me through the process?
Is there anything that can't be done on the block once it's installed in the boat?
A complete Marine long block will not require anything to be done that would be out of the ordinary.
Click to expand...
 
Am I wrong to say that a long block is the block and the heads and then I still have to supply a intake manifold carburetor exhaust manifold alternator cooling system?
 
Having a shop pull the old replace with a full long block going to run me about 6 grand.
Sounds awfully way out of line to pull and install a block
unless you want a new V8 5.7 well almost brand new, less than 1 hr run time. PM me
Its best to dress the new block and test run it out of the boat
 
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BassAckwards said:
Am I wrong to say that a long block is the block and the heads and then I still have to supply a intake manifold carburetor exhaust manifold alternator cooling system?
Click to expand...

I will give an answer that does not require any thought or long winded multi-colored response.

A short block is an assembled block with heads only.

No intake, or manifolds of any kind, no carb, no valve covers, no oil pump or oil pan,

A long block is an assembled block, with intake and (sometimes a carb), with oil pump and oil pan.

Flywheel and shields, exhaust manifolds and elbows, ignition and all accessories come from original engine, (alt, power steering etc.)

So ask first so you know what your getting
 
BassAckwards said:
Am I wrong to say that a long block is the block and the heads and then I still have to supply a intake manifold carburetor exhaust manifold alternator cooling system?
Click to expand...

Add to that list the ignition system and the engine coolant circulating pump, and that is correct!
 
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More useless information, of course the circulating pump is part of the cooling system. On track to reach raceroni, at 70 better hurry.
 
Okay well that's great stuff. That apparently is where I guess this becomes a more pricey job. Since I have to pay somebody to swap the motor then I also have to pay them too inspect clean and reinstall or replace any of the extra parts before the motor gets put back into the boat again. The engine can be run in test before being put back. I'm assuming a fresh water cooling system at 23 years old is probably going to need to be replaced.
 
Ayuh,..... Instead of Guessin' the condition of the original motor,.....

Do a Compression Test, 'n see what's it's condition is,......

23 years means absolutely Nothin',....
 
bondo said:
Ayuh,..... Instead of Guessin' the condition of the original motor,.....

Do a Compression Test, 'n see what's it's condition is,......

23 years means absolutely Nothin',....
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Bondo, you are the first I've heard that from. But seriously I've had it for about 4 years and run her real hard for an old lady, and could just tell by the sound that things were starting to get loose, bearings and what not. Just didn't sound right and on the maiden voyage of this spring, something came loose in the engine and each time I crank it something binds up inside the motor. It's time. if you fine folks know someone that you trust on East coast I'm in Richmond but I'll go up to Jersey or down to North Carolina to get it done.
 
So if my limitation is I don't have the hoist to pull the motor or put it back in, has anyone ever done this with a bobcat? I'm trying to think of what I could rent that I could use to lift the motor out then I can put it on a pallet take the parts off order the engine have it delivered to my house excetera... Just a thought so if it sounds stupid, feel free..........
 
BassAckwards said:
So if my limitation is I don't have the hoist to pull the motor or put it back in, has anyone ever done this with a bobcat? I'm trying to think of what I could rent that I could use to lift the motor out then I can put it on a pallet take the parts off order the engine have it delivered to my house excetera... Just a thought so if it sounds stupid, feel free..........
Click to expand...

Ayuh,..... I have access to several shops to use, 'n have used the backhoe several times But,....

If it's all disconnected, 'n ready to pull, many wrecker trucks have booms that'll do the job, 'n would probably be cheaper than rentin' a bobcat,....
 
You need an engine stand to attach engine for ease of removing parts. The put new block on stand to attach all parts.

Rent a cherry picker and put it in the bed of a pickup, let the air out off the trailer tires, have at it
 
I will give an answer that does not require any thought or long winded multi-colored response.
I would prefer it if you did give it some thought!

A short block is an assembled block with heads only. No intake, or manifolds of any kind, no carb, no valve covers, no oil pump or oil pan,
A short block is an assembled cylinder block with welsh plugs and rotating assembly but without cylinder heads, oil pump, flywheel and harmonic balancer! (some will include a boxed oil pump)
In other words, the components above the oil pan area, beneath the cylinder heads and forward of the crankshaft flange.


A long block is an assembled block, with intake and (sometimes a carb), with oil pump and oil pan.
A long block is a cylinder block with welsh plugs, rotating assembly, cylinder heads, typically with an oil pump, and sometimes with tin wear, and occasionally with a harmonic balancer.
This assembly will typically be minus intake manifold, ignition system, etc.

Click to expand...

Rent a cherry picker and put it in the bed of a pickup, let the air out off the trailer tires, have at it

I could not advise doing that. Imagine the instability of a cherry picker in the bed of a pickup truck! :eek:

Rent or borrow a steel Gantry Crane, or build a wood framed Gantry Crane.
You can very likely purchase the lumber for less than the cost of hiring a small boom type tow truck........ two times!

With a gantry crane, there is stability and no need to let any air out of your trailer tires!
Click to expand...

gantry cranes.jpg

gantry cranes 2 .jpg


.
 
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I went through this decision process some years ago when I reengined my boat . In the final analysis, I decided on a brand new factory all up engines. Reason,mostly did not want to be in the middle of finger pointing come warranty time, and I wanted a warranty that was backed up by a company likely to be around awhile. I've actually done this on two boats in my life time. The first time a friend loaned me his hydraulic lift on a trailer and I did the swap in a couple of days.... most time was consumed in cleaning up the bilge after pulling the engine. The second time, I did not have a place to work in so I had a "local expert" near my house do the swap. That took six MONTHS ( he said he ordered the wrong engine the first time) and there were some workmanship issues with the install, chief among was installing the turbulator gaskets upside down ( they're marked!!!) when he installed the FWC kit, something I did not discover for several years.

So.... lessons learned. If you are a careful worker and have the space to work in, do the swap with a brand new engine and get the latest technology and the strongest warranty.

Just as I see it....
 
I just got my 1972 Sea Ray 190 SRV back after almost 6 months in the shop installing an engine. I went the other way. I replaced what I had with a used but identical engine, but not quite as old. It is a Mercruiser 165, (the GM 250) 6 cyl inline. I bought the "new" 1978 engine from a fellow who was converting his boat to outboards. I checked it out and it seemed in fine condition and I had the installers check it to make sure it had no serious issues. Even so this cost north of $4K to have them do it. This includes servicing the sterndrive but that was only a few hundred bucks. If I had gone for a long block the engine alone would have shoved the bill up into the 6-7K level. Re-engining isn't cheap unless you do it yourself. Like you, I have no place to do it, don't have the right equipment, and have physical issues that aren't helped by doing work like that.

By the way I agree with Bondo. The age of an engine means little if it has been properly maintained and serviced. It has a lot more to do with how hard you run it and how you take care of it. Mine lasted 46 years and the problem was a cracked block, and the water passages had rusted out in some areas and water was leaking out around the head bolts. I used to work at a facility that serviced Coast Guard boat engines and engines from gensets at remote light stations. Some of those engines were older than me ( I should say, than I was at the time, in my 40's). Most were diesels but we also did gas inboards and outboards. Regular maintenance and periodic overhauls kept those engines running. And let me tell you the Coast Guard runs those engines hard, far harder than any recreational boater would.
 
Thank you all of you for your posts. So I've certainly got some planning to do. Ill take a look at my work space got a plan on how to pull the motor where to put it what to do with the old one. Honestly I would like to do the work myself. I see continued mentions of a wrecker being used so I may begin my planning around that concept. Prep the motor and the work area and have the wrecker come in Pull out and put it down there I need it. A motor stand certainly be needed. With a Long block I can't imagine is taking too long. Thank you for again for your experience and your insights.
 
I had used a pallet with casters on it put the long block on there, built wood blocks to attach the side mounts , after I swapped all accessories and wiring over was able to run it on the ground before dropping it in. Makes it easier to do all assembly out of the boat, but did require having the lifting device on two occasions about a week apart.
 
Dieter said:
I had used a pallet with casters on it put the long block on there, built wood blocks to attach the side mounts , after I swapped all accessories and wiring over was able to run it on the ground before dropping it in. Makes it easier to do all assembly out of the boat, but did require having the lifting device on two occasions about a week apart.
Click to expand...

So you just ordered the block to be delivered to your house? How do they deliver it?
 
I ordered mine from Michigan motorz. It was $200 extra (on top of $200 shipping to dock equipped) for delivery to a residential address on a truck with a lift gate, tuck driver will have a pallet jack to drop it in your gagarge if you have a paved drive.

Being a tight wad I had it delivered to my work where we have docks and forklifts. I brought it home in a utility trailer and used a regular engine hoist to get it on the ground, rolled it in the garage used the hoist to get it out of the shipping crate and on to my pallet (you can make it out of lumber vs using a pallet). Once on the pallet I could roll it in an out of the garage to test run I think check oil pressure compression set timing look for leaks etc before install.

It was nice to have both engines side by side to pull parts off one and onto the other. Save me about $2 k vs buying a complete bobtail but I had a low hour boat that the PO didn't winterize. As bob mentioned may not be worth transferring items if they are not in good condition, certainly doesn't make sense it you are paying $100 hr to do so.

I had had a small crane through the rigger we use at work but a tow truck with a recovery boom would do the same thing and probably cost you $100 give or take for each lift.
 
RicardoMarine said:
Other than protecting the oil pan and supporting the side engine mounts, I have had no issues in doing this very same thing.



.
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not resting on the oil pan merc flywheel cover has tabs or feet on the bottom those are sitting on the 2x nailed across the pallet. Side mounts are on blocks of built up 2x6

also dont know the part number but merc makes a union to connect the power steering hoses I think they ship their bob tails this way. Since my boat was purchased as a non runner, was nice to be able leak test that whole system and verify cooler integrity
 
You must be absolutely head over heels in love with this vessel to sink this kind of money into it. Talk about being under water when you're done! Yowza! Are you sure that you can't find another equally pleasing boat that runs well for the same 4-6000 that you're about to spend on this? In your part of the world you are in a buyer's market. Just my two cent opinion.
(full disclosure, I'm repowering a 1974 boat but I do really really like it)
 
o2batsea said:
You must be absolutely head over heels in love with this vessel to sink this kind of money into it. Talk about being under water when you're done! Yowza! Are you sure that you can't find another equally pleasing boat that runs well for the same 4-6000 that you're about to spend on this? In your part of the world you are in a buyer's market. Just my two cent opinion.
(full disclosure, I'm repowering a 1974 boat but I do really really like it)
Click to expand...

You hit it on the head. Unless I can do this for around 3k, I can find a cream puff 'round here for 5-6k. Having a new motor I know and trust has great value though.
 
Look here

https://www.perfprotech.com/remanuf...ruiser-marine-longblock-engines/category/2585

http://xcessiveinc.com/reman-engines-i4---v6.html

https://www.michiganmotorz.com/partial-engine-packages-c-31_55.html
https://www.michiganmotorz.com/remanufactured-marine-engines-c-31_51.html

Just to list a few...........

If you can swap parts, set up the ignition timing and make sure you tightened everything correctly, install, align and be confident you did the right and correct work, then do it yourself.

If you are not mechanically inclined then seek a running turn key boat and head out with a full cooler and have fun!
 
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Jack hit the nail on the head. If you can do the mechanical work you can come in around $3 k with reman and some elbow grease.

Only thing i would would add is what's the rest of the boat like ? Interior floor etc. when I did my repower in '16, I did it because it saved me enough money buying a handy mans special - 10 year old 38 hr boat that needed nothing else besides the engine ( ok I did have to put new tires on the trailer)

It allowed me to move up from a 17 ft 25 year old Sea Ray 170 (3.0 engine) to a then 10 year old 21 ft sea ray 200 sport (5.0) for a very reasonable cost. Ended up being about 60% of value of finished boat, otherwise it didn't make sense. My old boat had a couple soft spots in the floorand it was going to need an interior redo in the near future , so it was a good time to sell it while it still looked and worked ok.
 
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