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starter problems

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Frank55911

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Hello everyone, I need some help I have a 95 Bayliner with a 3.0 LX motor The other day I was running the engine it was at idle then it died I went to restart it and I here this big clang so got off the boat and went home came back the next day and found the starter laying next to the engine both starter bolts sheared off.I checked the starter on the the ground it was frozen. I replaced the starter, drilled out the bolts used heli coil. now the starter spins but i'm not sure if it kicks out
 
now the starter spins but i'm not sure if it kicks out
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Ayuh,....... We can't see it, or hear it, so I donno what yer asking,..??..??..??

If you screwed up the bolt holes in the block so badly you needed heli-coils, I'm gonna Guess you royally screwed up yer block,......
 
Frank55911 said:
............ 95 Bayliner with a 3.0 LX engine. came back the next day and found the starter laying next to the engine both starter bolts sheared off. I checked the starter on the the ground it was frozen. I replaced the starter, drilled out the bolts used heli coil.
now the starter spins but i'm not sure if it kicks out
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bondo said:
If you screwed up the bolt holes in the block so badly you needed heli-coils, I'm gonna Guess you royally screwed up yer block,......
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Bill, I had the same thoughts!

The bolt threads in the block (actually the doweled areas of the threaded holes) align the starter motor.
The block should have been taken to a machine shop for professional extraction of the broken bolt fragments.

As for the new starter motor not kicking the pinion gear out........... the solenoid provides two functions:

1..... it pulls on the lever arm that extends the pinion gear out into the flywheel's ring gear.
2..... it simultaneously makes electrical contact for the starter motor's armature circuit.

Make sure that you have the correct starter motor and that it's wired correctly!


NOTE:
not all starter motor nose housing are the same today.
make sure that the new bolts are of the correct length for the nose housing.
if a bolt was to bottom out before fully clamping the nose housing to the cylinder block........ you will have a repeat of broken/sheared off bolts! (this occurs all too often!)




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That starter MUST have a bracket in the front to support it or vibration will cause another failure.

Had that happen to mine as well.

Jeff
 
Does the motor turn over by hand? When the starter " launched", how could it now be suddenly froze? What do the teeth look like on the flywheel and bendix gear? Very strange!
 
the motor is not frozen and the teeth are good on the fly wheel and starter gear. I'm going to pull the new starter out and bench test and see if the gear kicks out like its supposed to
 
To my knowledge, the 3.0 never used a Bendix style starter motor.
It should be fitted with a solenoid/lever action style motor.

On the work bench, you should be able to test the solenoid’s lever action without exciting the armature.



.
 
I know what your saying, Rick. For some reason, maybe not 100 percent correct, I have always considered the starter drive gear as the "bendix". In Frank's situation the starter drive gear is activated by a solenoid operated fork and the gear itself (bendix) has a one way clutch (which can sometimes lock up or slip). If that clutch should fail upon starting, it can "launch" the starter, possibly causing flywheel ring gear damage.
 
timguy said:
I know what your saying, Rick. For some reason, maybe not 100 percent correct, I have always considered the starter drive gear as the "bendix". In Frank's situation the starter drive gear is activated by a solenoid operated fork and the gear itself (bendix) has a one way clutch (which can sometimes lock up or slip). If that clutch should fail upon starting, it can "launch" the starter, possibly causing flywheel ring gear damage.
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Bendix is a brand name. And yes..... that company does sell the old Bendix style as well as the “sprague clutch” style drive units.

The old and original Bendix Drive starter motors did NOT use a solenoid to kick the drive gear out. They required quick armature action to throw the drive gear out via a steep spiral cut splines.
Many marine outboard engines, snowmobiles, electric start small engines, etc, still use that principle today.


If you are old enough to remember ........ the Bendix drive starter motors won’t quite kick the gear out with a low battery!



...
 
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Re: starter problems more

RicardoMarine said:
Bendix is a brand name. And yes..... that company does sell the old Bendix style as well as the “sprague clutch” style drive units.

The old and original Bendix Drive starter motors did NOT use a solenoid to kick the drive gear out. They required quick armature action to throw the drive gear out via a steep spiral cut splines.
Many marine outboard engines, snowmobiles, electric start small engines, etc, still use that principle today.


If you are old enough to remember ........ the Bendix drive starter motors won’t quite kick the gear out with a low battery!



...
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So now I am confussed I should be able to jump the solenoid and the starter gear should shoot out and turn?
 
Re: starter problems more

Frank55911 said:
So now I am confussed I should be able to jump the solenoid and the starter gear should shoot out and turn?
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If you excite the solenoid’s magnetic field ONLY, it should kick the sprague clutch gear out....... and with NO armature action!

If you excite the solenoid’s field AND with power to the main lug...... both should occur........ I. E., gear out AND armature action!





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Re: starter problems more

Kinda like calling all snowmobiles a : SKI DOO. Right on, brother. Stand corrected, thanks...........Old enough to remember???? Seriously? Now I'm TOO OLD TO REMEMBER!
 
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Re: starter problems more

timguy said:
Kinda like calling all snowmobiles a : SKI DOO. Right on, brother. Stand corrected, thanks...........Old enough to remember???? Seriously? Now I'm TOO OLD TO REMEMBER!
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More from the starter problem. So
I took the original starter a part and cleaned it got lots of rust off of it. Then I benched tested it gear kicks out and turns
I took the new starter bench tested it every thing works Then I put the new one in the boat solenoid turns but wont kick out.So I took it out and put the old one it spins but won't kick out.Help
 
bondo said:
Ayuh,..... My guess is, yer puttin' the wires on the wrong terminals,....
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How could I bench test it if I don't know what terminals to use. When I do bench test it . It seems to have alot more jump and speed to it. The only thing I can try next is clean all the neg connections tomorrow. I will let you know.
 
Frank...... if you are wanting to bench test for both solenoid lever action and solenoid armature contact function, you’ll need the following:

1..... good starter motor body contact to battery Negative source.

2..... good healthy battery Positive source to solenoid’s “common” cable post.

3..... ability to momentarily excite the solenoid “S” terminal.


If you wish to test the solenoid’s lever action only, eliminate item #2 above .



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